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Saints, icons, intercessions ??

shnoodsshnoods
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
My Question is :

What exactly is the churchs position on Saints??(can some one clarify or suggest a book)
Who desides someone is a saint...and why does it 300 years for someone to be entered in the synexeruim..Whats the churches views on icons of saints..?? I know we don pray to saints but ask them to intercede for us..WHY/ how do we know this ..??

I remember reading something about a huge disagreement in the greek orthodox church which resulted in icons being distroyed on the excuse that they were "images"

Can someone clarify this ?? for me coz i am a bit confused..

Your Brother in Christ
Shenouda

Comments

  • marclenomarcleno
    oooh shenouda is turning protestant, iam telling everyone at church.. hehe

    2 verses to ponder..

    "Pagans make images of demos which they address as gods but we make images of God incarnate, and of His servants, and friends, and with them we drive away the demonic hosts."
    -St John of Damascus

    What the word communicates through hearing, the painter shows silently."
    -St Basil

    God bless you shenouda,

    PS: Shenouda stuffed up in tasbeha last Saturday... :)
  • PrincessMaryPrincessMary
    St. Paul asks the Christian Ephesians, Thessalonians, Colossians and Romans to pray for him (Ephes. 6:19, 1 Thesal. 5:25; Colos. 4:3, and Rom. 15:30-31. We say in the liturgy of St. Basil, "By the command of your only-begotten Son we communicate with the memory of your saints . . . by whose prayers and supplications have mercy upon us all, and deliver us for the sake of your holy name"

    -"An angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

    -“the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8)

    -"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" St. Origen

    -"You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him" St. Ephraim the Syrian

    -"You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?" St. Jerome


    -"A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers” St. Augustine

    -"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for the dead who are remembered. For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" St. Augustine

    -"At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps" St. Augustine

    We do not pray to the saints, but we, as all being members together in the body of Christ, need to pray for one another, so that God may have mercy and compassion on us and hear our prayers and supplications. If we who are in the flesh and live in this world pray for one another, and ask for each others prayers, then wouldnt we also ask the saints and martyrs who are already in heavenly Jerusalem with God, to intercede on our behalf before our Lord Jesus Christ, for us sinners?
  • shnoodsshnoods
    OOOooooOOOhhhh Thanks Marceleno....I still love ya even though it was you who stuffed me up in the tasbeha that saturday ....

    I don know about being a protastant, but one thing i really like about the protastant church is their ability to SPREAD the word, mabey we should take notes..!!

    Princess Mary ....Thanks for definatly answering my question..God Bless.

    But what is the history of the synexerium, and why 300 yrs...!! and not 200, or 100 yrs....

    and wot about this "I remember reading something about a huge disagreement in the greek orthodox church which resulted in icons being distroyed on the excuse that they were "images"

    why would the Greek orthodox (or who ever they are) do this ??

    Thanks princess mary (no thanks to Marceleno for stuffin me up!! but thanks for helping me get unconfused !!)
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