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Concerned Copts: Butt out of my religion
A fellow concerned Copt Alber Osseily has come in to talk about 'how we in the Coptic community seem intent to impose our religious norms and rules on others (atheists, muslims) but scream murder when things are imposed on us.' A very thought provoking talk you DON"T want to miss!
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Concerned-Copts/241012779271529
Podcast: http://soundcloud.com/concernedcopts/cc-podcast-episode-3
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Concerned-Copts/241012779271529
Podcast: http://soundcloud.com/concernedcopts/cc-podcast-episode-3
Comments
Homosexuality is ok, and spreading the salvation of Christ is wrong.
Is this not a softening of Christian virtues and principles? How is this different from what protestants do?
copticyouth86, why do you let the world around you shape your views? Why do you try to compromise Christianity so that it seems politically correct?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems that you are looking forward to being anathematized from the Holy Orthodox Church of Christ.
Just a few more podcasts!
By the way, we usually scream murder when we are murdered...(Maspiro).
You live in a fantasy land, and do the bidding of workers of iniquity. May God forgive you and show you the errors of your ways so that you may return to His church in repentance. I hope that isn't too much "forcing my religion" on you to say that. You need to hear it (as we all do sometimes, but hopefully we don't post such nonsense as you have in an attempt to influence others to follow your way; that is dangerous, and I am proud to be intolerant of that.)
Again.. ;D
ReturnOrthodoxy
I find much to disagree with in it that is so blatantly wrong that any ensuing discussion is absolutely pointless.
Ahhh, there we go! That'll do quite nicely! :D
TheGodChrist and dzheremi, both of you have done a very poor job representing what was said in the podcast. If you want to discuss a particular point that was made then reference the time that it was said e.g. @10:40 and then talk about it. This prevents the distortion of what was actually said. Much appreciated.
Cy
Hi guys, gonna be brief.
TheGodChrist and dzheremi, both of you have done a very poor job representing what was said in the podcast. If you want to discuss a particular point that was made then reference the time that it was said e.g. @10:40 and then talk about it. This prevents the distortion of what was actually said. Much appreciated.
Cy
We are not trying to summarize your podcast; TITL already did that. We're replying to the attitude that you consistently take regarding issues concerning the Church.
There is a recurring theme in many of your posts...
You try to take the Church and fit it into what makes you feel good. You mold Christianity into what you want it to be. This is, more than anything else, quite sad.
Stop trying to change Christianity, and let it change you instead. That's how a person enters into a true life with Christ.
Rebellion leads you on the same path that another person took...his name was Lucifer, and he was known as the bright and morning star. He thought he knew better than God, and I don't think he's very happy at the moment.
Don't be fooled. Follow Christ and take up your cross...it's your key to Heaven.
+++
"We are not trying to summarize your podcast" hence the suggestion of the time reference.
"There is a recurring theme in many of your posts..." completely irrelevant to this thread. If you want to discuss this episode of the podcast, I'm more than happy to engage. However, If you wish to speak about my position regarding religion or feel the need to proselytise to me then do it in a personal message.
Cy
Of course, then you'd just want to discuss it, because you think absolutely everything is up for debate. Some things are not, however, and this includes most of the things that I have personally witnessed you posting about here. So, yes, your past posts are relevant to the discussion you want to have because, as The God Christ has noticed, this is a pattern in your manner of posting here.
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
Hey,
"We are not trying to summarize your podcast" hence the suggestion of the time reference.
"There is a recurring theme in many of your posts..." completely irrelevant to this thread. If you want to discuss this episode of the podcast, I'm more than happy to engage. However, If you wish to speak about my position regarding religion or feel the need to proselytise to me then do it in a personal message.
Cy
The podcast you are posting lacks any Orthodox substance. Since this is a Coptic Orthodox forum, I expected it to have at least some concrete bedrock of Orthodoxy. Because of this, I chose to inquire about your real intentions. I don't believe that topic is off limits, as dzheremi has rightly mentioned.
Now I know you're trying to peddle your podcast to a Coptic Orthodox community of believers in order to stir up the pot. You know that the views you espouse are unorthodox in content. You also know that it goes against 2000 years of Orthodox Christianity.
Your agenda is quite clear. And it will only work against you as long as you choose to pursue it.
What pains me the most though, is that you usually choose to speak about temporal, worldly topics instead of eternal, spiritual ones.
Why?
Why not focus on getting closer to Christ? We are all sinners in need of repentance.
Why not struggle against sin instead of rationalizing it?
Why not try to overcome the sin, instead of saying that the Church that Christ built has cracks in its foundations?
We are truly trying to help. I know its hard facing up to our own ugliness, but we all have to do it.
We all have to defeat our inner demons through the power of Christ.
If I were to say that I have no demons, or that my demons were really angels, I would only be deceiving myself.
Which is why I challenge you to truly take a real and through second look at your views. Ask yourself, "Are my thoughts, which I singlehandedly came up with in my short lifetime, better than those constructed by Christ the Savior?"
Research what it means to truly be called "Orthodox." Look at the lives of the Saints that were tortured, imprisoned, and mercilessly slaughtered so that the Orthodox faith would stay THE SAME. They didn't sacrifice their principles, handed to them by the martyrs and confessors who lived before them, for the sake of shameful, empty and emotionally charged political motifs.
How valuable is Christ to you? Will you die for Him as He died for you? Will you crucify your flesh as He crucified His? Will you humbly sacrifice your views for Him?
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him" (John 14:21).
I hope for this to be my last post on this topic. I look forward to discussing spiritual topics with you on future threads.
copticyouth86, you will be in our prayers...
+++
Mate, I was the one that gave the talk. I have no idea what you are talking about. The topic has nothing to do with being gay and you just sound ignorant with your first comment. Are you sure you listened to the podcast? The Christian theme running through the podcast regards the hypocrisy of Copts living in Western countries (in particular mine, Australia) who want one thing here and another overseas, in Egypt.
If you would like to bring out any substantive points regarding the podcast (called Butt out of my Religion), then please let me know. If you have any concerns about my Christianity, please email Father Hanna Gad of St Demiana and St Athanasius Coptic Orthodox Church, Punchbowl (suburb of Sydney, Australia) and let him know. He is my confession father. You can find his email on the web. Also, I gave this talk at Church during a youth meeting and received a positive response in the end.
@dzheremi
If you have any particular points which you disagree with, please let me know. Your response was arrogant and provides no light. If in fact I am the devil incarnate, your words illuminate nothing. Remember, a lot of young people wont accept the very typical "that's wrong don't listen to it!!!) speech. Just make reference to ONE factual mistake.
Thank you. Pray for me.
Albert Osseily
Sydney, Australia
Thank you for the Youtube post. A most Christian response. Im sure I have read words such as those coming from Christ's mouth.
Albert
What in God's name are you talking about? I dont want to argue, but people have very obvious and strong feelings about the podcast. So again, what issues do you have with the podcast?
Thank you,
Albert
Please, don't fall for this bait and engage them (foolish, rebellious, secular, perverted "Concerned Copts"). This is what they want and love. No matter how much truth you provide, they will reject it.
I am well aware of this. But thanks for looking out 8)
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146566#msg146566 date=1319525374]
@TheGodChrist
Mate, I was the one that gave the talk. I have no idea what you are talking about. The topic has nothing to do with being gay and you just sound ignorant with your first comment. Are you sure you listened to the podcast? The Christian theme running through the podcast regards the hypocrisy of Copts living in Western countries (in particular mine, Australia) who want one thing here and another overseas, in Egypt.
Albert,
First off, welcome. ;D
As a matter of fact, I did listen to the podcast before I posted. And it will be the last one that my ears hear. I tore my shirt in shame at the absurdity of many of the statements made.
As many have said already, the podcast is really not worth responding to. The reason for this, besides it being easily refutable, is that the people of this site have debated copticyouth86 with Biblical, historical, and most importantly Orthodox evidence for THIRTEEN PAGES in a previous thread...and nothing changes.
Now, I do not know if you espouse similar views as that of copticyouth86, and I pray that you do not (very likely though). But if you do, and you posses the same utter resistance to the Orthodox Church, then it is not worth speaking further. But if you are a person that tries to understand the Orthodox Church's point of view, as we have tried to do with copticyouth86, then maybe we can begin to discuss.
As I mentioned before, many in your circle do not care for eternal truths. Scripture is an optional novelty for copticyouth86. Church tradition is as changeable as a pair of jeans. The 2000 year-old Orthodox Church has to conform to the hippest and most current "social norms."
Political ambitions are your goals, and many of you totally blow off any Orthodox stance that you do not agree with on a personal level. Real Copts, your own brethren, are ridiculed and pitied in your podcasts. You speak as if the Church and the Holy Synod are made up of a bunch of substandard fools and hooligans.
Do you hate your own roots that much? It seems that most of you in the podcast take pleasure in ridiculing your brothers and sisters in Christ, even if that includes your own father of confession.
Why would you give a political stump speech about public policy to a youth group at a Church? And why would you mislead a humble Priest? This is a strictly political topic that has no role whatsoever in nurturing easily-influenced youth with the love of Christ and His Church.
Instead of focusing your efforts as a Coptic Group to spread the Gospel and speak the truth to a new generation, which Christ and His Church have done successfully for centuries with the shedding of their own blood, you choose to use your talents for the exact opposite.
"Whoever falls on that stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder” (Matthew 20:18).
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146566#msg146566 date=1319525374]
If you have any concerns about my Christianity, please email Father Hanna Gad of St Demiana and St Athanasius Coptic Orthodox Church, Punchbowl (suburb of Sydney, Australia) and let him know. He is my confession father. You can find his email on the web.
Your Christianity is between you and your Coptic Orthodox Priest. But when you take your views and spread them online publicly, utilizing the word "Copt" to disseminate one's personal opinion, and twisting it to misinform the public about your true intentions, one cannot be silent.
The Church is not a political forum. It is the pathway to the living God, where one enters into communion with the Holy Trinity and knows each One personally. Please leave your political discussions out; our youth are confronted with enough corruption outside the Church walls...
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146566#msg146566 date=1319525374]
Also, I gave this talk at Church during a youth meeting and received a positive response in the end.
Mate, if you actually did give this exact talk to Coptic Orthodox youth in Australia inside a Coptic Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate:
You should be ashamed.
You should be ashamed.
You should be ashamed.
This is from one bloke to another, in a humble spirit of love.
I hope the youth "liking it" is not the barometer you use to determine how good a meeting is.
Orthodoxy: Live it, Learn it, Pass it on...UNMODIFIED, Unchanging, and always contemporary.
+++
Again, to simply say that "the podcast is really not worth responding to" is by itself a worthless statement. It edifies no one. We are not here to direct people to "not listen to things". Several points were made regarding freedom of religion in the podcast, definitely an issue we deal with as Copts. At least be respectful enough to point out my errors, if I have made any.
I have re-read your posts several times. Again, I say to you as I said to Andrew "What in God's name are you talking about". It seems that you have gathered some steam from other podcasts, and the Concerned Copts group and are laying it out on me. So I ask you, in all that you have heard ME say, either here or on the podcast, please let me know what was "un-orthodox", or against the faith. I ask this in sincerity.
Also be aware that the Church became political after the 4th century, when it was legalised in the Roman empire. It is political in nature. When we protest in the streets, that is a political statement and action. When political candidates come to our churches during elections, the church is political. When priests suggest political candidates to vote for.....and you get my drift. Do not speak of the utopian church, the one in books, the one in our dreams. Speak of the one that is in front of you. How do you wish to gather people to the one true God when venom is spat out at enemies, real or imagined???
The barometer of any speech is whether the audience are affected by it. They liked it cause it taught them something new, something about the Bible (love you enemy, which a few of them forgot about).
Let me ask you again, if you love me, and if you are humble as you like to say, please, let me know of any factual errors on my part, anything which goes AGAINST the teachings of the Fathers or the Councils or, most importantly, Christ. If it is easy then it will be no problem. Please make reference to the time in the podcast where I make a statement. If i have said something wrong, then I will correct myself.
Let me remind you of one thing brother, in case you thought well of your last response. You said "I tore my shirt in shame at the absurdity of many of the statements made." Remember who else acted so in the Gospels. (Matt 26: 65). When we mimic such people we soil ourselves. Speak to me as Christ spoke to his own, as he spoke even to the Samaritan women, my brother.
Thankyou TheGodChrist for throwing at me some of the most insulting remarks I have ever heard in my life.
I'm sorry that you took it that way. Sometimes you need to throw some cold water on someone to wake them up.
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146571#msg146571 date=1319535867]
To simply reply as you have done is to no more then treat me as dust on the bottom of your feet, not worthy of an after thought.
Let me clarify. We are all sinners, and we are all dust. If I make a mistake, I expect you to correct me in love. My rhetoric is not really directed towards you per se', but rather at the fact that these viewpoints are coming out of your group. This could potentially lead many others astray, and this is the danger that we are trying to avoid.
The patience really runs thin when blatant resistance is pursued by the other person. This is similar to when a priest tries to tell a youth to stop getting drunk and going to parties, but he refuses because all of society does it. It's an accepted social norm.
After tirelessly trying to convince the youth to no avail, the priest does not get angry at the youth, but at himself. He gets angry because he knows that the youth is choosing to learn the hard way, and that the youth is choosing to suffer instead of listen.
This is very similar to when a certain person chooses to blatantly ignore every single person for THIRTEEN PAGES.
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146571#msg146571 date=1319535867]
It seems that you have gathered some steam from other podcasts, and the Concerned Copts group and are laying it out on me.
Just to clarify: are you not associated with the group Concerned Copts?
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146571#msg146571 date=1319535867]
So I ask you, in all that you have heard ME say, either here or on the podcast, please let me know what was "un-orthodox", or against the faith. I ask this in sincerity.
Please give me a few hours, I will try to respond as thoroughly as I can.
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146571#msg146571 date=1319535867]
The barometer of any speech is whether the audience are affected by it. They liked it cause it taught them something new, something about the Bible (love you enemy, which a few of them forgot about).
Not necessarily. I can be moved by the health and wealth Gospel that is preached by many evangelical Christians in modern times. I can be touched and moved by it to the point of tears. But is it truth? If God doesn't give you cash, are you doing something wrong? If you don't get that fancy house, are you not praying hard enough? Our Lord Jesus Christ said, "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction" and "Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life."
What I'm saying is, whenever a person gives any sort of lecture in Church, it has to measure up to Orthodox principles (dogma). It shouldn't be a personal/political opinion, and it should be held up by much more than eloquence. Otherwise, any topic that is attractive to the ear will be acceptable in Church.
[quote author=aosseily link=topic=12498.msg146571#msg146571 date=1319535867]
Let me remind you of one thing brother, in case you thought well of your last response. You said "I tore my shirt in shame at the absurdity of many of the statements made." Remember who else acted so in the Gospels. (Matt 26: 65). When we mimic such people we soil ourselves. Speak to me as Christ spoke to his own, as he spoke even to the Samaritan women, my brother.
There is a reason I use this reference. It is very common to rend one's clothes in the Old Testament and even in the New Testament. St. Paul and St. Barnabas did indeed rend their clothes. When they saw people worshiping them, they recognized the idolatry. And so, as a rejection of this blasphemy, they tore their clothes.
Here are some other instances of clothes being torn (in addition to the one you mentioned):
Genesis 37:29
Genesis 44:12-13
1 Samuel 4:11-12
2 Samuel 3:30-31
2 Samuel 13:30-31
2 Kings 18:37
2 Chronicles 34:24-27
Ezra 9:3
Acts 14:14
You owe me a new shirt...lol.
+++
Mods, please close this thread before it's too late.
One post, and one post only. One post saying what's wrong with the content of the podcast. THAT'S IT. ITS NOT GOING TO PAGE THIRTEEN, God Willing...
going to chime in briefly "...My rhetoric is not really directed towards you per se', but rather at the fact that these viewpoints are coming out of your group"
The only relationship Albert has with ConcernedCopts is that, so far, he is the most recent speaker on the podcast. That is all. Perhaps get some clarification first, before making accusations...not afterward.
Cy
TheGodChrist,
going to chime in briefly "...My rhetoric is not really directed towards you per se', but rather at the fact that these viewpoints are coming out of your group"
The only relationship Albert has with ConcernedCopts is that, so far, he is the most recent speaker on the podcast. That is all. Perhaps get some clarification first, before making accusations...not afterward.
Since your group most likely brings on speakers who wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoints and ideologies, it wouldn't be a stretch to call him a member.
+++
Haven't heard the entire podcast but just wanted to say one thing about the notion of 'butt[ing] out of my religion':
This is the definition of preaching Orthodoxy: 'Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary, use words.' (attributed to St. Francis of Assisi).
The absolute insanity of the comparison notwithstanding, such a viewpoint concerning the beating of the convert strikes me as both dangerous and hypocritical. In affirming in the name of "freedom" the right of this Islamic group to mete out Islamic justice upon those in their community who break Islam's laws, all who think as the "Concerned Copts" do condemn their society to increasing Islamic radicalization and damn all Muslims to hell on earth at the hands pf men who play God with impunity provided by this or that interpretation of Islam. So, why then, is "freedom" not extended to the convert to practice his Islam in whatever way he would like? Why is HIS freedom curtailed in favor of the brutalizers who deliver "street justice" that is no different than the type you would see in Afghanistan under the Taliban, or Egypt (God forbid) under the Salafists? Because all parties involved are Muslims, therefore it is "fair"? That is insanity. It enables radicals to serve as the authorities of their community right under the noses the non-Muslim majority, further ghettoizing the Muslim community and creating a state of parallel laws that are inescapable for any Muslim who has the misfortune to be found guilty under them. And it condemns these Muslims simply because they are Muslim, saying "we cannot interfere in your religion, and that is its law, so too bad for you even though you live in Australia, a country ostensibly NOT UNDER ISLAMIC LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE."
Where is the freedom in that? Where is the "fairness" in that? You want to uphold Islamic brutality in the name of freedom, but not TRUE freedom in belief and action (when they are against Islam...) according with YOUR country's beliefs and principles because you have some sort of bizarre post-modern idea that there ARE no principles just because some minority of people might disagree with them on religious or other grounds? Well, I'm sorry. The Western ethos is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, not to allow the minority to run roughshod over its own just so long as it doesn't spill over into the majority. That is dangerous and stupid. That is NOT in keeping with Christianity. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" would be an insane proposition to the men who beat the convert (since after all, it's not a sin to beat the living hell out of someone if your religion says to do so!), yet it is axiomatic in the life of a Christian. It ought to apply to everyone not as a means of "forcing our religion" on anybody, but because it is a way that precludes the kind of extremism that, if supported under the misguided idea of "fairness" or "multiculturalism", will only grow in Islam. And THIS is why good Christian people (who are not hypocrites at all) maintain that Islam should not be allowed to enact its punishments and laws on the soil of free lands. They know better, just as many Muslims know better. But noooooo...we have these very hip and modern people like the "Concerned Copts" who wouldn't say "boo" to the perpetually-offended Islamic radicals, and hide their cowardice and their own disdain for the true laws of God (as given by the true GOD, Jesus Christ) under a suffocating blanket of relativistic niceties that are destroying western societies the world over. (Not just in Australia; if you don't believe me, ask our own Fr. Peter about how things are going in the UK these days in regard to the Muslim population and intercommunal harmony under the guise of "fairness".)
I rarely talk like this, but to hell with that, because that's exactly where this kind of thinking leads. Just because you won't stand up for anything doesn't mean the rest of us will fall for this baloney as you have. You are true hypocrites, and your warped, corrupted view does not allow you to see it. Woe to you when the forces that you support come into their own. Woe to your community and woe to your nation. This kind of thinking is the death of the civilizations that have produced it.
Any other religion beside Christianity is of Satan
Any other way than to Christ is heading towards the bosom of Satan.
One should make the decision to either follow the path to Christ or that of Satan.
I am absolutely not getting into an argument with these "Concerned Copts", but I will post this to see if anyone else had similar thoughts: What gets me about this podcast, other than all the obvious stuff, is the idea that we must stand up for Muslims' rights to practice their religion as we would stand up for our own in order to be "fair" or "not hypocritical", because that way everyone can be "free". The way that this is illustrated is by talking about a brutal beating as punishment for an Islamic convert breaking Islam's prohibition against drinking after being spotted in a pub somewhere by a fellow Islamic devotee. We are to approve of this in our country (I'm not Australian, but similar things happen elsewhere), we are told, because the man willingly took on the potential for such punishment by becoming Muslim, so it is the action of a consenting adult that has ultimately led to this. If we do not approve of this, we are hypocrites because Copts in Australia do not agree with the idea that priests ought to be ordered to break the seal of confession in cases of suspected child abuse.
The absolute insanity of the comparison notwithstanding, such a viewpoint concerning the beating of the convert strikes me as both dangerous and hypocritical. In affirming in the name of "freedom" the right of this Islamic group to mete out Islamic justice upon those in their community who break Islam's laws, all who think as the "Concerned Copts" do condemn their society to increasing Islamic radicalization and damn all Muslims to hell on earth at the hands pf men who play God with impunity provided by this or that interpretation of Islam. So, why then, is "freedom" not extended to the convert to practice his Islam in whatever way he would like? Why is HIS freedom curtailed in favor of the brutalizers who deliver "street justice" that is no different than the type you would see in Afghanistan under the Taliban, or Egypt (God forbid) under the Salafists? Because all parties involved are Muslims, therefore it is "fair"? That is insanity. It enables radicals to serve as the authorities of their community right under the noses the non-Muslim majority, further ghettoizing the Muslim community and creating a state of parallel laws that are inescapable for any Muslim who has the misfortune to be found guilty under them. And it condemns these Muslims simply because they are Muslim, saying "we cannot interfere in your religion, and that is its law, so too bad for you even though you live in Australia, a country ostensibly NOT UNDER ISLAMIC LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE."
Where is the freedom in that? Where is the "fairness" in that? You want to uphold Islamic brutality in the name of freedom, but not TRUE freedom in belief and action (when they are against Islam...) according with YOUR country's beliefs and principles because you have some sort of bizarre post-modern idea that there ARE no principles just because some minority of people might disagree with them on religious or other grounds? Well, I'm sorry. The Western ethos is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, not to allow the minority to run roughshod over its own just so long as it doesn't spill over into the majority. That is dangerous and stupid. That is NOT in keeping with Christianity. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" would be an insane proposition to the men who beat the convert (since after all, it's not a sin to beat the living hell out of someone if your religion says to do so!), yet it is axiomatic in the life of a Christian. It ought to apply to everyone not as a means of "forcing our religion" on anybody, but because it is a way that precludes the kind of extremism that, if supported under the misguided idea of "fairness" or "multiculturalism", will only grow in Islam. And THIS is why good Christian people (who are not hypocrites at all) maintain that Islam should not be allowed to enact its punishments and laws on the soil of free lands. They know better, just as many Muslims know better. But noooooo...we have these very hip and modern people like the "Concerned Copts" who wouldn't say "boo" to the perpetually-offended Islamic radicals, and hide their cowardice and their own disdain for the true laws of God (as given by the true GOD, Jesus Christ) under a suffocating blanket of relativistic niceties that are destroying western societies the world over. (Not just in Australia; if you don't believe me, ask our own Fr. Peter about how things are going in the UK these days in regard to the Muslim population and intercommunal harmony under the guise of "fairness".)
I rarely talk like this, but to hell with that, because that's exactly where this kind of thinking leads. Just because you won't stand up for anything doesn't mean the rest of us will fall for this baloney as you have. You are true hypocrites, and your warped, corrupted view does not allow you to see it. Woe to you when the forces that you support come into their own. Woe to your community and woe to your nation. This kind of thinking is the death of the civilizations that have produced it.
Very valid and rational points!
I'm still of the mind that it all comes down to repentance, and there lies the change for those to follow Christ. When it comes to rules and laws, they were always easily abused and it was one of the reasons our Christ came. The laws God gave to Moses did not express love adeqately. But still the love needed still had the conditions of the law.
@PeterA
A fine speech. But one that has done nothing. It has edified no one. I note again that not ONE reference has been made to ANYTHING I have said. Only more rhetoric that "these" people are of the devil, nothing to see here, move along. Again, the only link I have with Concerned Copts is that I have done the podcast. Your words are strong, lets see. My confession father and parish priest is Father Hanna Gad. I have provided the link to the Sydney Diocese where his email is recorded. Please, pass on your concerns of my "devil" activity to him. Let him know that I should have no place attending youth meetings as I am only cause dismay and drawing "brave" youth to the devil.
http://www.coptic.org.au/modules/sydney_churches/index.php?id_art=6
Again, I would ask you to listen to the POINT of the podcast, rather then see the red flag and run at it. All you have said is fine and good. Except for one point which you failed to address. Should the Australian government outlaw the secrecy of confession in order to protect children. I notice you TOTALLY fail to talk about it. Again, its a rant about things I dont think or feel. Its about thinking of the very nature of the religion and the state. About the separation of the two. About how if we love beating down on the muslims (you know, cause Christ said "Hate your enemy"), then it will come back on us. You rightly point out that "The Western ethos is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority". Well wake up son, we ARE the minority. Practicing Christians (those who actually believe, not just tick a box in the census form) are less then half in Australia, as probably in the UK. If there was a vote today on the legislation to force priests to reveal confessions (re: child sex abuse), it would have large support in the community. With the MASSIVE cover ups in the Anglican and Catholic churches with abusive priests, few politicians would be brave enough to openly say otherwise.
Again, you have extrapolated where there was no need. The point of the talk has been totally missed. Do we, as Christians, let the state define right and wrong for us, or should we be left alone to define it. Each brings its own blessings and curses. I laughed at all your assumptions about me. You want my views, you should ask, if you care. Again, refer to me (my name is Albert) and stop saying "these Concerned Copts". I am a human you know.
Thank you