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The Body and the Blood

ophadeceophadece
in Coptic Orthodox Church
I was baffled by a question today from someone and I would like to ask you if you can enlighten me with some references. Can anyone take the Body of Christ after they have already drunk the Blood? The priest in the church I went to does this too but I am not sure if he is right or wrong..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    That is a good question. It came up before. But the rule that we always followed is you must always seal it with the Blood. So, if you take both and didn't break the fast yet, with water or orban or anything, you can take the body again as long as you take the blood again to seal it
  • ophadeceophadece
    Thanks a lot dear @minatasgeel..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • ShareTheLordShareTheLord
    edited August 2019
    The priest himself takes in the beginning the Body. If he has an assisting priest, he will take the chalice and take the espadicon which is dipped in the Blood and partake of the Blood before handing it to the assisting priest.

    Then at the end, the priest must cleanse the paten of all remaining fragments (and will often have many pieces remaining). So using this as an example, shows there is nothing wrong with partaking the Body after the Blood. Now I never heard the concept of sealing it with the Blood afterwards but makes sense...
  • ophadeceophadece
    That's very true @ShareTheLord.. I guess the main question was about any person but of course this makes perfect sense..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • PopeKyrillosHabibiPopeKyrillosHabibi
    edited August 2019
    @ShareTheLord, @minatasgeel,

    Piggybacking off of OP's question, why is it that, when an assistant priest is available, the senior priest (or the one praying the liturgy) puts a piece of the Holy Body on the Mesteer (spoon) for the other priest?

    Just an interesting thing I noted today during the liturgy--was perplexed as to why the priest did not simply take the Body in his hands but ate it with the Mesteer.

    Also, I noticed that, during the offertory prayers when Abouna is picking the Lamb, in the last step, he dips his finger in the wine, and makes the sign of the cross on the other loaves (not chosen) whilst saying inaudibly, "Abraham," "Isaac," "Jacob" with each cross. I can't find this inaudible prayer anywhere!

    God bless +
  • ShareTheLordShareTheLord
    The officiating priest before the offering of the lamb first washes his hands 3 times and saying the following respectively:
    1) Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
    2) Fill me with joy and gladness; let the bones which You have broken rejoice.
    3) I wash my hands in innocence, and go about your altar, O Lord, that I may hear the voice of Your praise. Alleluia.

    Prays the prayer of preparation then goes to offer lamb.

    Then he crosses his arms to select the lamb saying:
    “God, choose a lamb without blemish”

    Once a lamb is selected he says:
    “Grant, O Lord, that our sacrifice may be accepted before You for my sins and the ignorance of Your people. For behold it is pure according to the gift of Your Holy Spirit, in Christ Jesus our Lord. Through whom the glory, the honor, the dominion, and the worship are due unto You, with Him and the Holy Spirit, the Giver of Life, who is of one essence with You, now and at all times and unto the age of all ages. Amen.”

    Then he dips his thumb in the wine offering saying the following:
    - While making cross on the lamb
    sacrifice of glory
    - while making sign on inferior lamb:
    sacrifice of blessing
    sacrifice of Abraham
    sacrifice of Isaac
    sacrifice of Jacob
    - while making the sign of the cross on the back of the lamb:
    sacrifice of Melchizedek


    For communion, in the end, my understanding, is the officiating priest is the one doing all those prayers, so he is the one who officiates with his hands. The assisting priest, since he was not officiating simply approaches with extra reverence and abstains from touching the body, unless he has to give communion to the sick. At which point, before administering to the sick, he prays some of those prayers.
  • [Deleted User]
    What happens if someone takes the body but not the blood because the run out of blood. What happens in that situation, are they condemned or is there a mystical meaning behind it?
  • ophadeceophadece
    I think that there are certain prayers and rites for the "replenishing" of the cup which goes through the liturgy of the word and then the faithful etc but I know it happened with me at least once and abouna shouted at me for being inattentive. I guess neither he, nor the deacons, nor the congregation of course would want to wait for another hour and a half at least for a sinner like me to receive the Blood... Oops I made it sound worse than it really is, or is it?
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • [Deleted User]
    So technically It can be replenished even after the priest and the deacons have taken communion and "broke" their fast but it is also okay if the Blood was not taken, of course not okay we try of course to take it, but if it happened accidentally it is okay right?
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    So basically, if someone takes the Body and NOT the Blood, what would happen?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    He would need to tell abouna.
  • ophadeceophadece
    @msmekhael I don't understand what you mean by the question if that indeed is a question.. And yes the rites of replenishing the cup would be done after breaking the fast - please remember it is not a separate service, it is still within the same liturgy..
    @Jojo_Hanna I already answered for who partakes of the Body and not the Blood. That's what happened with me..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    What is the “Replenishing of the Cup”?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    In case the cup breaks in which you'd lose all the wine, abouna find out that there is something wrong with the wine when he tastes towards the end... There is a special service to fill it with wine again and use that. It's like a mini-liturgy really with readings and prayers.
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    How can I get a copy of this document?
    Where can I read more about this?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    I haven't seen it online or translated it...but it's in the back of the most recent Liturgy book of Abouna Abdel Masseh - Baramous Monastery. 
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    Have you ever seen or heard of any liturgy where this has ever happened??
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    I haven't....but that doesn't mean it hasn't happen. Almost ALL chalices now are metal based, so they don't easily break. And it's not that problematic to get genuine mine these days. 
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    A chalice can be Metal, Wood, Glass, Copper, Etc. Correct?
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    And do you think that 2019 priests would know what to do in case the chalice broke?
    How about if the spoon breaks?

    Or what about if the Patten breaks?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    edited August 2019
    Yes to your first question.

    to your second question, the priest doesn't need to think about all these things because we have the ability to avoid any of these problems. It doesn't make sense nor is it acceptable to not do something if you know that it will help avoid issues in the future. Now, since we can make durable and usable vessels these days easily (or atleast easier than a century ago), we then must. It would be a sin not to.

    If the spoon or patten "breaks"...whatever that means, it's no big deal since the orbana is not just gonna "spill" everywhere. Same with the spoon....you'll just get another one and use it.
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