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Evolution vs creation

peetpeet
edited May 2004 in Faith Issues
I am a creationist, totally belive in creation.
evolution is something of a scientific theory that is icnstantly changing and therefore very vaigue in defnition and beliefe, e.g. belife in natural selection is difrent from evolution but is sometimes included in the theory to enhance it.

Are you an evolutionist or a creationist???

Do you know what the coptic, catholic and other curches believe, plz reply

peter

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Comments

  • egyprincessegyprincess
    the coptic view is definetly creationist. we blieve 100% that God created everything. If you follow the process of evolution, you will notice that the order that God created the world is the same order that scientist say the world evolved in. Also, Bishop David once said, "I have never seen or heard of a monkey turn/evolve into a human. But i have seen men act like monkeys." hope this helps
  • Mark423Mark423
    The orthodox creed:
    We believe in one God, God the Father, the Pantocrator, who created heaven and earth, and all things seen and unseen.

    Also during the liturgy the priest says:
    Meet and right, meet and right, truly, indeed, it is meet and right. O You, who are, Master, Lord, God of truth, being before the ages and reigning forever, who dwells in the highest and looks upon the lowly, who has created the heaven, the earth, the sea and all is therein. The Father of our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ, by whom you have created all things, seen and unseen. Who sits upon the throne of his glory, and who is worshipped by all the holy power.

    Again during mass:
    Agios, Agios, Agios. Holy, Holy, Holy, truly O Lord, our God, who formed us, created us and placed us in the paradise of joy.

    Coptics are most definitely creationists. Ironically enough, Charles Darwin himself stated towards the end of his life that it is quite hard to believe that the world came about through natural selection. Just look at the complexity of organisms and the world as a whole. One slight imbalance has effects on every thing around it. This clearly didn’t all happen by chance. To say that the world, in its EXTREME complexity came together by chance is the equivalence of a tornado going through a junk yard, gathering all the parts of a Boeing 474, assembling them and leaving the plane ready for take off; quite impossible. Keep in mind the THEORY of evolution. Had it been proved, it would no longer be a theory, but a fact of life. Evolutionists do not have solid support from science when they say everything has “evolved”. There is no scientific law that allows something to evolve from nothing. If there was nothing in the universe to begin with, obviously nothing could happen to cause anything to appear. Evolutionists often try to circumvent this problem by saying that evolution is not concerned with the origin of life, only how life progressed after it appeared. But if you can't get something from nothing, thinking you can accurately explain the next step without being able to explain the source is pointless. Fancy debating techniques can be thrown about, but the truth is without a Creator you are not going to get anything, and especially not everything we have today.

    I can go on forever about why evolution is clearly absurd, but I’ve babbled enough.

    God Bless
    -Mark
  • PaulhPaulh
    wowww...i completely agree with you. 100% :) and i'll do my research and try to find out what's the Catholic Church's opinion on it

    God bless
  • Mark423Mark423
    As far as my knowledge, no branch of Christianity supports evolution. None of the popular branches anyway, I exclude all those denominations that are hardly heard of because I don’t know much about them. Again, I suggest getting another opinion.
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    Hi guys,

    The issue is not so much evolution or creationism this is because we actually have no idea how God did create the world. ???

    All we know is that he gave us a simple commentry in Genesis and told us the He is the creator. It is not for us to infer on God how He created us but to accept what he leads us to conclude in faith. The Russian Orthodox Church is actually very big on evolution and as a copt you CAN believe in it as a means that God used but this differs greatly from the athiestic veiw of evolution. God is the divine architect and in Genesis the word used isn't actually create but manufacture which shows a process of building more complex things from less complex things till God had created the pinacle of creation being man.

    Also most bishops won't tell you this but we have to ascribe to some forms of evolution because there is only one adam and eve so where did all the other races come from???

    God bless,

    CS
  • Mark423Mark423
    Granted there must have been some genetic mutations that caused other races to form. But this isn’t as you said what the atheistic view of evolution. When evolution is mentioned it is conceived as, in simplest terms, a monkey turning into what is now a human. A Monkey turning into a human is how the world accepts the theory evolution and the first thing that comes to ones mind. It is true it can be viewed as mutations of the body ect. But that is not how the general world interprets it. I guess when it all comes down to it, labels of “mutation” or “evolution” are what is really argued. They can be used as synonyms. However, the label makes all the difference.
  • PaulhPaulh
    "For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." Genesis 2:5-7

    This is what confuses me though, cus right there it says the Lord God formed MANN....it doesn't say he formed an ape or a fish. So if somebody could please comment on that...thanks
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    This is a reoccuring theme, the same thing just happened in the dating thread because they called it dating. Perhaps that should have been renamed courting so people didn't get offended.

    In this instance we shall can call the process metaphysicalhetrotranssubstanciation.

    I like the sound of that.

    CS
  • PaulhPaulh
    loll...sounds good
  • Mark423Mark423
    lol ;) :D
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    Oh actually Paul, that is one of the key verses. Dust is a symbol here for nothing, I believe the verse is to denote the uniqueness of man in creation and that he has a special spiritual gift that other creatures have.

    As for saying that a monkey became a man, I'm not touching that with a barge pole.

    CS
  • Unknown
    im gonna skip around here
    for some odd reason, i remember when i was little i asked my uncle how different races came about, and he said after Adam and Eve were created, Noah came along and all the people of the earth were erased
    and we are all the descendants of Noah and his son's... but what i always wondered was how many different races did Noah's Flood wipe out?
    also... you know how they have the big bang theory all tied up with evolution? well i recall one time a bishop... dont take my word for it... but this is just from memory, had said that we do not believe in evolution of humans, but the scientific explanation of the earth's development is possible, like God could have made the earth as described in those timeless 7 days... he didnt use those exact words, and as i said, do not take my word for it, but if anyone recalls something similar, let me know..
    btw, im totally creationist.. just a little rusty on it i guess
    SMS
  • PaulhPaulh
    that sorta makes sense, but like mark said, these are all theories. All of these things COULD have happened...but we don't know, and we won't know until God reveals them to us...thats why He's still a mystery to us [as mark said b4]. about all the different races coming out and stuff, i always believed that it was just that some people were in the sun like in africa, and others weren't like in north america. and the african's got tanned and tanned from the sun and eventually became black. and the others wern't in the sun and they were white. and indians were like in not too much sun, so their still brown...but wha drives me crazy is the chinese people...what makes their eyes so small?!? loll
  • Mark423Mark423
    loooooool
  • Unknown
    [quote author=Mark423 link=board=1;threadid=246;start=0#msg1752 date=1084502554]
    loooooool


    ^wut he said
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    lololololollolol, oh man paul, lololololol, u and sms would make awesome stand-ups.....n wat about the haiwains?....not all of them look the same, but some look part Asian and indian....wats up with that? no offense to ne1 intended.

    - Chris
  • PaulhPaulh
    *bows down*. i've actually NEVER seen a hawiian in my life.. i think on tv ONCE lol. i remember em havin a asian face with an indian like complexion. i dun gotta clue tho. anyway back to the topic...wow, how'd we get from evolution to indians, asians, and hawiians lol. so yeah, just between u and me, i don't believe in evolution one bit. [just an opinion tho.., i'm not tryin to start another 10 pages, and just for the record, i'm not the one that started the dating thread..lollll]
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    lololololol :D :D
  • marysmarys
    i think we've lost sight of the topic... focus ppl focus
    *snaps fingers*
  • PaulhPaulh
    *nods head, and opens eyes, and realizes that he's in a big empty room with banoub, sms, mark, and mary*
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    :D lololololololololololol :D
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    What on earth does standing in the sun have to do with genetics??????
  • GrazingbearGrazingbear
    As a newcomer to orthodoxy (and to Christianity-- I was born to and reared by Marxist-atheist parents and spent the first 56 years of my life unaffiliated with any established religion), I must admit I find the "fuss" made over the creationism-evolution issue incomprehensible.

    Why should the question even matter? If God is all-powerful and all-mighty, surely He is quite capable of not only creating all things but also of "programming" His creatures to change and evolve over time. If evolution occurred/is occurring, then it merely serves to further prove the glory and wisdom of God!

    Why should any Christian feel threatened by evolutionary theory?
  • Mark423Mark423
    Contrary to popular belief, and worldwide scientific acceptance; I believe that a persons genes surely can be changed. A person in Africa, who lived their life under the sun, day after day after day, who bears a child who is in the sun day after day after day… in some several thousand years, a child born isn’t going to be as white as the first person who was laboring in the sun. They will surely be darker. I’ve read up on Darwin’s tail cutting experiment, but it doesn’t convince me because cutting the tail doesn’t affect the animal, where as if the tail was immobilized and the muscles began to deteriorate, after several generations, the tails would be smaller and less developed. Likewise, if the tail was used more often, this trait of strength would be passed on to future generations.
  • CopticSoldierCopticSoldier
    is this your phototransgens theory?
  • egyprincessegyprincess
    i agree with Grazingbear, it shoudln't matter
  • Mark423Mark423
    [quote author=CopticSoldier link=board=1;threadid=246;start=15#msg1796 date=1084559027]
    is this your phototransgens theory?


    Absolutely ;)
  • egyprincessegyprincess
    hey guys! i'm cinda new here and i really like this topic because i've wondered about it a lot. i think that both the creation and evolution took place. think of it this way, the bible said that it took millions or even billions of years for the sun to form yet in the bible it says that it took one day. our days and years are based on the rotations and revolutions of the earth and moon, but before the earth and moon, how did God keep track of time? one of his days could be equal to millions of our years. if you say it took one day for something to form that would be considered creation, but if it took millions of years you would call it evolution. the bible says it took one day to make man, but thats the heavenly day, not the earthly day. plus another point is that if God created all of this in 6 days and rested on the seventh day, how then are we [glow=green,2,300]still[/glow] in the seventh day?
  • andrew64andrew64
    umm well i know for sure that our chuch believes in the creation.
    that all means that we believe that God created the world and that it wasn't created by a scientific explosion.
    some say that God caused the evoulotion.
    but take it my way....
    you can either believe in the creation or you can go with science.
    they are completely different and if try to compare them you will get confused... because i have tried that...
    what i learned is that you should not go with what makes sense...just follow your heart... even if you don't understand... even if that might sound silly.

    Hope that helped you,

    Andrew
  • PaulhPaulh
    ok, well lets see what verses we could find in the Bible about evolution.

    Genesis 1:24-25:
    Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind"; and it was so.
    And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    Genesis 2:7
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

    Genesis 2:20-22
    So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
    And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.
    Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
    [HR]

    ok well first He said let the earth bring forth living creatures, so Adam wasn't the first living being, but doesn't it mean anything when it says "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth,each according to its kind"; and it was so.
    And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind.

    Then in the next verse it says that the Lord formed man from dust. Dust...as in nothing. It doesn't say from one of the creatures.

    As for verse 2:20, it popped a question into my head. If evolution really had occurred, then how come Adam and Eve were the only ones to evolve. And it says that there was nobody comparable to Adam.

    And my last point..if evolution really did occur, is it men only who evolved?? because it clearly states that Eve was created from Adam's rib. She didn't exist before that as a creature or anything because her seed (sorry for the poor word) began with a rib.

    I'm not argueing or anything but these verses sorta popped a lotta questions up so i'm hoping somebody could comment on that...

    Thanks
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