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COPTIC vs. ARABIC vs. English
Hello! My name is caro and I am an music student who is studying Egyptian Coptic Orthodox music and I am very interested in how people feel about the language being used in our churches.
Which do you think helps you to truly pray?
and which language is it that truely helps us use our music in worship?
I would appreciated responses to this question, both to help relieve my curiosity and to guide me along in my research.
thank you so much for your help!!!
Which do you think helps you to truly pray?
and which language is it that truely helps us use our music in worship?
I would appreciated responses to this question, both to help relieve my curiosity and to guide me along in my research.
thank you so much for your help!!!
Comments
I think sometimes it can be a bit of an issue with the youth, and yet it is also a blessing, because by its use it will not be forgotten. However I have seen several, (and at points been tempted to as well) converts leave, but I don't think that this is just because of the language we use in the Liturgy, but rather a sense of alienation after the service.
At this point I simply think its a tough situation, there are good things either way, Gods will be done.
First, concerning the converts, the liturgy is has 3 parts, and the part with all the readings is for the non-believers, or the ones looking to convert, therefore it is said in the language in which people can understand. The part for the believers is after the creed and in the old church, the nonbelievers used to be escorted out of the church and noone was let in.
Secondly, there are different views concerning the language of the liturgy. I know Bishop Youseff said that he likes to pray the liturgy to keep the youth interested and let them follow. Then, you got some people that say that everyone should know coptic because it is the language of our church, and those that don't learn it are lazy. I personally like the liturgy in all languages, because due to the grace of God, we can read the liturgy due to our greeat liturgy books. I love coptic, but I also like english for the youth to follow, so I think that a little of both is good.
Steve
i hope what i have to say helps you with what you're researching. first of all i'd just like to say that i don't think the languages are in conflict with one another (like you said in your title coptic vs english vs arabic.. sorta gives that impression) but that each one has it's appropriate place. personally, i was born and raised with english, so when i pray, i pray in english. and in liturgy in north america, i'm a firm advocate of english all the way. i believe that to truly internalise what you're praying, and to pray it from the bottom of your heart you need to understand and savour the meaning of each and every word. when you can't understand what you're saying, how can you pray it? i still believe coptic should be kept alive for purposes of the richness of the coptic parishes and the translation of coptic texts; it shouldn't be abandoned completely, however in terms of prayer, i feel the language you understand and use is the most intimate way to raise your heart to the Lord. for purposes of music, i feel the same way: the language you're accustomed to using makes the prayer more real and more immediate. coptic hymns are most definately beautiful, for example The Holy Psalmody or Tasbeha in coptic is beautiful, but it's not as immediate and as intimate as when Tasbeha is prayed in english for those who speak english (in North America). also, and most importantly, there is the need for english in our north american parishes for the simple reason that this is a predominantly english speaking continent, and in order to open our doors and spread Christ to all people, we need to speak their language, literally. we have to do this to reach out to all people, and invite them to experience Christ with us.
i hope that helps,
good luck with your studies and God bless
merry Christmas!
This is a topic that has always interested me...
Personally, I prefer to listen to the mass in arabic or coptic because that is the mass I grew up with (even though I was born and raised in NY)
From previous discussions and experience, I can tell you however, that younger generations (teens) prefer to the mass in English...like my sister.
I love music, I love alhan, tasbeha, and the liturgy hymns...and I feel that the coptic language provides an excellent rhythm that neither English or Arabic can provide at times. There are certain hymns that sound a lot better in Coptic...since their origin was from that language. For examply, How can we sing the "hazat" in english or arabic...I don't see how that can work???
I see no problem reading/learning the translation of coptic hymns. I guess that I very much believe in maintaining the traditions of the church. At the same time, I think that balancing all three languages like most churches are doing now, is a very good method. A little bit of each language used in our prayer services is the perfect balance. With time, like many of us now, the congregation will learn/pick all three languages of prayer. Even converts enjoy the diversity of languages and the beauty of the traditional hymns of the church.
Languages should not interfere with our spiritual life. I feel that when we pray individually, we should learn to use the language that benefits us the most or two of them or even the three of them...Whatever fits our personality. Some of us feel closer to God when we sing, others feel closer in private prayer, etc...
I hope that I was able to help you...Good luck with your research!
Enjoy the Holidays
Maryann
PS I believe I have met you in Brooklyn Church b4...You are Tasony Irene's cousin...Am I correct???
Hello! My name is caro and I am an music student who is studying Egyptian Coptic Orthodox music and I am very interested in how people feel about the language being used in our churches.
Which do you think helps you to truly pray?
and which language is it that truely helps us use our music in worship?
I would appreciated responses to this question, both to help relieve my curiosity and to guide me along in my research.
thank you so much for your help!!!
Hi Caro,
Most of the people I know, including myself, can pray in a language that we know well or that is our mother tongue: Arabic or English.
Coptic is only the mother tongue of 1 or 2 priests in the entire Coptic Orthodox Church. I'm not saying I cannot pray in Coptic, but i'd have had to know the meaning SO well of by heart for it to have any effect on me spiritually.
Let's not forget, we also pray in Greek. Again, I'd have to know the meaning off so well by heart for me to pray anything in greek (like Agios Otheos).
I remember I attended a mass once, and the guy leading didnt know the 2nd Agios Otheos Verse - I didnt laugh, or anything.. its quite serious. I mean, u cannot blame him for forgetting - its not his mother tongue.
Coptic is beautiful for hymns; the tunes are just right for praise.
Musically, I love Coptic.
For praying privately however, it makes much better sense to use
a language we fully understand. I don't understand Coptic; only some words.
+++
What are some suggestions to solve this problems. what are some ways that we can make everyon feel home after liturgy
In Christ
Ebnyasoo3
I know in Canada, a coptic church grew to have so many converts, the priest said they have around 30 different elasticities, he now chooses to only pray the liturgy in English.
While many think this might be too liberal, i think he is justified in that it makes it easier for them to pray.
Ans as long as he is teaching them our church's teachings and they partake of the church sacraments, it's ok
On the other hand, i think coptic in general should be preserved in the church.
I am not sure about arabic, since it is not our official language. We should work more on preserving the coptic language as i see many of the youths at my church not interested in attending tasbeha or learning our hymns.