[quote author=mazza link=board=4;threadid=1880;start=90#msg30180 date=1120308762] ok so weve heard everyones concerns and so forth i jus want to know who agrees that the australian orthodox church should be established and who disagrees. no arguments or conflicts. jus a simple yes i think it should be established or no, it should never be established thanx
While it may sound a good idea to vote! But one must ask some questions before puting matters to vote
(1) Was the issue well debated, with logic taking over from emotions? (2) Is the majority always correct? about 70 members of the Senhedrim condemmed Christ to death and only 2 said He was innocent? (3) Being a heirearchical church, and not congregational, what if the hirachy had different thoughts to the majority? (4) Should we also vote on the British Orthodox Church, The French OC...etc?
Debate is always healthy. Some may start with certain thought about a matter, but after some debate they may reconsider their position?
[quote author=jono link=board=4;threadid=1880;start=30#msg29511 date=1119777818] Sayedna (HGB Daniel) has returned, (he came back super early), but is yet to have made a public announcement regarding the issue. From what I hear from his secretary and those in the "inner circle" the idea of a AOC has been rejected by HH Pope Shenouda III and the Holy Synod.
IMHO, whatever the outcome is, it would have been guided by the Holy Spirit, and I hope that those behind the AOC and in favor of it understand the position the church has.
I'll be talknig to HG personally soon and so hopefully can get a definite answer, (I would prefer something in writing) soon...
Keep Praying
Jono,
I went to www.copticpope.org and went to the English Karaza. The Edition was: Thirty Third Year Friday 24th June 2005 – 17th Paona 1721 Price 75 pt. Issues 19, 20.
Under the section "The Holy Synod Meeting" under "Miscellaneous Meetings Meetings of HH the Pope with their Grace the Bishops" I found this statement "HH the Pope received during the last couple of weeks their grace the Rev Bishops:...........(and it talks about Bishops that he met) and then it says and I quote; [glow=red,2,300]"HG Bishop Daniel Concerning his service in Australia, using the Coptic Language in prayers and also his services outside Australia."[/glow]
There is NO other statement anywhere in regards to ANY decision that the Holy Synod, the Pope or HG Bishop Daniel have made in regards to your statement and I quote
[glow=red,2,300]"the idea of a AOC has been rejected by HH Pope Shenouda III and the Holy Synod"[/glow]
How do you explain saying this and knowing more about it than others do when nothing has been posted in the Keraza?
Jono, You need to be careful before you make blanket statements like you have above. What your statement implies is that the Coptic Orthodox Church, Its Pope, Its Holy Synod and a Diocesan Bishop have discussed the Australian Orthodox Church and have come to a decision. This does not seem to be the case.
I would like to know where you get your information and authority from to post this serious information?
It seems like you are speaking on behalf of all these people and I would like to know what you know! Time to put your money where your mouth is and make a clear statement with references in regards to where you get your information from.
Otherwise, identify your statement as your own personal feelings and no one elses and be done with it!
Please go to www.copticpope.org and register. Then go to the Keraza Magazine section and choose the English Keraza to confirm.
this is the. issue i would like to see your perpestives and opinions and wither you agree or disagree. thanx ppl pray for me
When Christianity came to Egypt it was pleasing to see that Saint Mark "Baptised" not only the Egyptians, but also their culture. He maintained their language, their music...even many of their feasts.....According to Late Dr Ragheb Meftah and the Late Bishop Gregorious "Every Nation Brought out from her own inner feelings and Her rich culture her own tunes and her own liturgy.
By the fourth century, the Coptic Liturgy more or less took its present form"( Voice introduction in Arabic and English of the full Coptic St Basil Liturgy"
So when Christian spread the good news about Christ in the lands of immigrations, their is nothing wrong in respecting and adapting other cultures and baptising their culture to be the vehicle to carry the Gospel.
We need to find our footing in the land of immigration and be a missionary church. Not every thing in the Egyptian Culture is perfect, neither any other culture. Christianity must be descerning and careful to place biblical truth and Church interpretation of the Holy Bible above ALL cultures.
The heritage will never be lost, but the tree will have more branches. Egyptians will remain as such regardless how long they lived in the States. But Americans will never be Egyptians, regardless of how long you beat them on the head to change their culture.
We must be in control of the change. Otherwise we may lose control.
Please read my entire sentence... "From what I hear from his secretary and those in the "inner circle" the idea of a AOC has been rejected by HH Pope Shenouda III and the Holy Synod." -> so therefore, I took this as a rumor you could say, and although I got this information from official sources (e.g the Coptic Khorus of the Sydney Diocese, and some priests) I have yet to get a "definite answer" as I mentioned in my final line........
I will be attending a meeting with HG this friday (in sha' allah) , in which the issue will be brought up and hopefully will be able to confirm. Unless, HG tells us that the decision has been delayed, or that the decision can not be announced as of yet, and so I will not be able to confirm anything.
I personally have no position on the issue, and don't really care what happens, I will be accepting whatever the final decision is, whatever it may be, with joy and obedience.
Keep Praying.
JONO
There is a Serbian proverb which say, "If you are in a deep hole, first thing stop digging"
For the second time yor are implecating HG bishop Daniel and HG's Secretary in leaking Holy Synod and other confidential information to yourself.
Also you give an impression that you are part of HG advisory, by telling the world that you are having a meeting with HG on Friday? Even if this was trutheful? Why do you publisize such private matters, especially that you have compromised the bishop and his secretary before?
Please remember that other people read this site. Have you considered that you may be tarnishing your bishops reputation and showing his administration in a bad light?
I am not a part of any advisory. HG is a wonderful Bishop whom all love, and I regret if I "shed bad light" upon the Diocese. This was not my intention.
[quote author=MarMar91 link=board=4;threadid=1880;start=90#msg31805 date=1121013829] okay, so i have been against this australian orthodox thing from the start, tho i dont live in australia, tho i felt ur pain, but i wanted a way to get other against it too, and pope shenouda wrote this in his book experiences in life: direct quote here:
[50] Popular Songs Sometimes people compose a hymn using the same tune as a popular song. They imagine that as long as the words are healthy, it does not much matter about the music!! However, music in itself has an effect upon the emotions which is no less than the effect of the words composed to it. So, the words of spiritual songs should only be set to spiritual music and melodies which are suited to them.
that shud be enough for u guys surly, addded to everything else everyone said... rite?
Wher In the Suggested Plan for the AUSTRALIAN COPTIC ORTHODOX CHURCH there is a mention of Popular Songs?
Here are the main points (Arabic and English) ÊÑÌãÉ ÚÑÈíÉ ááäÞÇØ ÇáÓÊ ÚÔÑ ÇáÎÇÕÉ ÈÅäÔÇÁ ÝÑÚ ááßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÈØíÉ áÎÏãÉ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãæáæÏíä Ýí ÃÓÊÑÇáíÇ (1) Use present liturgies but all in English ÊÓÊÚãá åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÏÇÓÇÊ ÇáÍÇáíå æáßä ÈÇááÛÉ ÇáÅäÌáíÒíÉ. (2) For time during communion, introduce western, but churchy type music with Orthodox meaning and dogma. æÞÊ ÇáÊæÒíÚ ÅÏÎÇá ÈÚÖ ÇáÊÑÇäíã ÇáÛÑÈíÉ ÈáÍä íáíÞ ÈÇáßäíÓÉ æßáãÇÊ ÃæÑËæÐæßÓíÉ ÇáÚÞíÏÉ æÇáãÚäí. (3) Select a priest who served the Coptic Church as priest for minimum of 10 years, but with previous orthodox vision for another 10 years as a deacon or a SS servant and make this priest the first parish priest. íÊã ÇÎÊíÇÑ ßÇåä ÎÏã ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÈØíÉ ÇáÃæÑËæÐæßÓíÉ áãÏÉ áÇÊÞá Úä ÚÔÑÉ ÃÚæÇã¡ Úáí Ãä Êßæä áå ÎÏãÉ ÔãæÓíÉ Ãæ ãÏÇÑÓ ÇáÃÍÏ ÐÇÊ ØÇÈÚ æÑÄíÉ ÃæÑËæÐæßÓíÉ áãÏÉ ÚÔÑ Óäíä ÞÈá ÇáßåäæÊ. (4) Establish a new campus on Sunday with a separate committee under the chairmanship of the bishop, with the parish priest as his deputy. íÊã ÊÍÏíÏ ãßÇä ÊÌãÚ ÎÇÕ íæã ÇáÃÍÏ ¡ æÃä íßæä áåÐÇ ÇáÊÌãÚ ãÌáÓ ßäíÓÉ ÊÍÊ ÑÂÓÉ ÇáÃÓÞÝ æíßæä ÇáßÇåä äÇÆÈå. (5) The priest must start to nurture some families to have priests and monks..etc out of them Úáí ÇáßÇåä ÊÑÈíÉ Ìíá ãä Èíä ÚÇÆáÇÊ ÇáßäíÓÉ áíÎÑÌ ãä Èíäåã ßåäÉ æÑåÈÇä. (6) This parish would be run by its congregation. They must be financially capable , through paying tith, to support a priest and hire of a place. Then eventually purchase a place. íÊÍãá ÔÚÈ åÐÉ ÇáßäíÓÉ ãÓÆæáíå ÅÏÇÑÊåÇ ÈÇáßÇãáÒ íÌÈ Ãä Êßæä áåã ãæÇÑÏ ãÇáíÉ ãä ÎáÇá ÇáÚÔæÑ áÍãá ãÓÆæáíÇÊ ÇáßÇåä ÇáãÇÏíÉ æÅíÌÇÑ ÇáãßÇä. æßæÖÚ ÊáÞÇÆí ØÈíÚí íÔÊÑæä áåã ãßÇäÇ ËÇÈÊÇ. (7) This Parish must run on Sundays. With Sunday school and other services like Bible Studies..etc. ÊÞæã ÎÏãÉ åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ íæã ÇáÃÍÏ æíßæä áåÇ ãÏÇÑÓ ÇáÃÍÏ ãÚ ÇáÃäÔØÉ ÇáÃÎÑí ãËá ÏÑÓ ÇáßÊÇÈ æÎáÇÝå. (8) Coptic and Greek lessons must be conducted for interested persons, so translation of remaining books take place, by the hand of linguists ÊÞÇã Ýí åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÏÑæÓ áÛÉ ÞÈØíÉ æÏÑæÓ áÛÉ íæäÇäíÉ áãä íÛæí åÐå ÇáÏÑÇÓÇÊ. æåÐÇ ÓíÓÇÚÏ Úáí ÊÑÌãÉ ÈÞíÉ ÊÑÇËäÇ ÈæÇÓØÉ ãÊÎÕÕí áÛÇÊ. (9) Protocol must be written and signed to avoid this parish in splintering out of deviating from the faith. íÌÈ ßÊÇÈÉ æÊæÞíÚ ÈÑæÊæßæá ÎÇÕ ÍÊí äÖãä ÚÏã ÇäÝÕÇá åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ Ãæ ÇäÍÑÇÝåÇ. (10) The priest must run proper Asheyas and proper Tasbeha for his people in appropriate times. íÞæã ÇáßÇåä ÈÅÞÇãÉ ÔÚÇÆÑ ÇáÚÔíÇÊ æÔÚÇÆÑ ÇáÊÓÈÍÉ ÈØÑíÞÉ ÕÍíÍÉ æÝí ÃæÞÇÊ ãäÇÓÈÉ. (11) Congregation may start to rewrite the music for some of the liturgical songs in tunes to suit the reverence of the Church and the musical taste and ear of the Australian born parishioners. Such tunes to be gradually introduced. íÌæÒ áÔÚÈ åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÅÚÇÏÉ ÕíÇÛÉ ãæÓíÞí ÈÚÖ ÇáÃáÍÇä áÊäÇÓÈ æÞÇÑ ÇáßäíÓÉ æÎÔæÚåÇ æÃíÖÇ ÇáÊÐæÞ ÇáãæÓíÞí ááÃÓÊÑÇáííä ÇáãæáæÏíä ÈåÐå ÇáÈáÇÏ. æÊÏÎá åÐÉ ÇáäÛãÇÊ ÈØÑíÞÉ ÊÏÑíÌíÉ. (12) Egyptian born Copts must refrain from migrating to such parish, as they are very well served by the existing 14 parishes. íÊÌäÈ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ãä ÃÕá ãÕÑí ãä åÌÑ ßäíÓÊåã Åáí åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÌÏíÏÉ¡ ÍíË Ãä ÌãíÚåã íÊãÊÚæä ÈÎÏãÉ ããÊÇÒÉ ßÇãáÉ Ýí ÇáÃÑÈÚ ÚÔÑ ßäíÓÉ ÇáÍÇáíÉ. (13) Most importantly, unless Australian born committee contacts the bishop and negotiates with HG with a clear plan, such parish will never see the light. áä ÊÑí ãËá åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáäæÑ ãÇáã ÈÊÝÇæÖ ÇáãæáæÏíä ÈÃÓÊÑÇáíÇ ãÚ äíÇÝÉ ÇáÃÓÞÝ æãÚåã ÊÎØíØ æÇÖÍ. (14) Australian Copt must respect Egyptian Copts and their ethnic tinges. Egyptian Copts must also respect Australian Copts and their ethnic tinges. However biblical matters and traditional matters of the FAITH (e.g. the 10 Commandments are not to be considered or treated as an ethnic tradition). íÍÊÑã ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáÃÓÊÑÇáííä ØÈÇÚ æÊÞÇáíÏ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãæáæÏíä Ýí ãÕÑ ãÚ áãÓÇÊåã ÇáÞæãíÉ ÇáÎÇÕÉ Èåã. åÐÇ æíÍÊÑã ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãÕÑííä ØÈÇÚ æÊÞÇáíÏ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãæáæÏíä ÈÃÓÊÑÇáíÇ. ãÚ ÇáÃÎÐ Ýí ÇáÅÚÊÈÇÑ Ãä ÇáæÕÇíÇ ÇáÅäÌíáíÉ æãÓÇÆá ÇáÅíãÇä áÇÊÍÓÈ Ãæ ÊÚÇãá Úáí ÃäåÇ ÊÞÇáíÏ Ãæ ÊÑÇË ÅËäí (ãËÇá Ðáß ÇáæÕÇíÇ ÇáÚÔÑ) (15) The Parish must be involved in all the diocesan activities and must not be isolated. This does not stop them from having their own unique activities. åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÊÔÊÑß Ýí ßá ÃäÔØÉ ÅíÈÇÑÔíÉ ÓíÏäí æáÇÊäÚÒá ÚäåÇ. æåÐÇ áÇíãäå æÌæÏ ÃäÔØÉ áåã.
Man i dunno what type of churches you ppl grew up in but whoever said that the trisagion cant be said in english without changing the tune is VERY mistaken we say the whole mass in english. and also sherie maria 100%in english EVEN THE LONG ONE!!! so i suggest you get your facts write b4 u rite pages and pages of rubbish.. AND WE DO THE MASS IN 110% IN ENGLISH every word is english and its still not enough???? And there r also ppl saying that the bible wasnt writen in coptic but greek and alot of irrelivant things along those lines..were not saying is sum sort of super langauge which everyone must know or they will not go to heaven. who cares what langauge the bible was ritten in or the langauge jesus spoke its so irrelivent the coptic was used in our mass for centuries we need to preserve it not just chuk it away. Just because jesus didnt speak coptic doesnt mean its not important just because the bible wasnt ritten in coptic doesnt mean its not relevant
Comments
I say yes
ok so weve heard everyones concerns and so forth
i jus want to know who agrees that the australian orthodox church should be established and who disagrees.
no arguments or conflicts.
jus a simple yes i think it should be established or no, it should never be established
thanx
While it may sound a good idea to vote! But one must ask some questions before puting matters to vote
(1) Was the issue well debated, with logic taking over from emotions?
(2) Is the majority always correct? about 70 members of the Senhedrim condemmed Christ to death and only 2 said He was innocent?
(3) Being a heirearchical church, and not congregational, what if the hirachy had different thoughts to the majority?
(4) Should we also vote on the British Orthodox Church, The French OC...etc?
Debate is always healthy. Some may start with certain thought about a matter, but after some debate they may reconsider their position?
I suggest we may give it some time.
Thank You
Sayedna (HGB Daniel) has returned, (he came back super early), but is yet to have made a public announcement regarding the issue. From what I hear from his secretary and those in the "inner circle" the idea of a AOC has been rejected by HH Pope Shenouda III and the Holy Synod.
IMHO, whatever the outcome is, it would have been guided by the Holy Spirit, and I hope that those behind the AOC and in favor of it understand the position the church has.
I'll be talknig to HG personally soon and so hopefully can get a definite answer, (I would prefer something in writing) soon...
Keep Praying
Jono,
I went to www.copticpope.org and went to the English Karaza.
The Edition was: Thirty Third Year Friday 24th June 2005 – 17th Paona 1721 Price 75 pt. Issues 19, 20.
Under the section "The Holy Synod Meeting" under "Miscellaneous Meetings Meetings of HH the Pope with their Grace the Bishops" I found this statement
"HH the Pope received during the last couple of weeks their grace the Rev Bishops:...........(and it talks about Bishops that he met) and then it says and I quote;
[glow=red,2,300]"HG Bishop Daniel Concerning his service in Australia, using the Coptic Language in prayers and also his services outside Australia."[/glow]
There is NO other statement anywhere in regards to ANY decision that the Holy Synod, the Pope or HG Bishop Daniel have made in regards to your statement and I quote
[glow=red,2,300]"the idea of a AOC has been rejected by HH Pope Shenouda III and the Holy Synod"[/glow]
How do you explain saying this and knowing more about it than others do when nothing has been posted in the Keraza?
Jono,
You need to be careful before you make blanket statements like you have above. What your statement implies is that the Coptic Orthodox Church, Its Pope, Its Holy Synod and a Diocesan Bishop have discussed the Australian Orthodox Church and have come to a decision. This does not seem to be the case.
I would like to know where you get your information and authority from to post this serious information?
It seems like you are speaking on behalf of all these people and I would like to know what you know! Time to put your money where your mouth is and make a clear statement with references in regards to where you get your information from.
Otherwise, identify your statement as your own personal feelings and no one elses and be done with it!
Please go to www.copticpope.org and register. Then go to the Keraza Magazine section and choose the English Keraza to confirm.
Yours in Christ
this is the. issue i would like to see your perpestives and opinions and wither you agree or disagree.
thanx ppl
pray for me
When Christianity came to Egypt it was pleasing to see that Saint Mark "Baptised" not only the Egyptians, but also their culture. He maintained their language, their music...even many of their feasts.....According to Late Dr Ragheb Meftah and the Late Bishop Gregorious "Every Nation Brought out from her own inner feelings and Her rich culture her own tunes and her own liturgy.
By the fourth century, the Coptic Liturgy more or less took its present form"( Voice introduction in Arabic and English of the full Coptic St Basil Liturgy"
So when Christian spread the good news about Christ in the lands of immigrations, their is nothing wrong in respecting and adapting other cultures and baptising their culture to be the vehicle to carry the Gospel.
We need to find our footing in the land of immigration and be a missionary church. Not every thing in the Egyptian Culture is perfect, neither any other culture. Christianity must be descerning and careful to place biblical truth and Church interpretation of the Holy Bible above ALL cultures.
The heritage will never be lost, but the tree will have more branches. Egyptians will remain as such regardless how long they lived in the States. But Americans will never be Egyptians, regardless of how long you beat them on the head to change their culture.
We must be in control of the change. Otherwise we may lose control.
Ross,
Please read my entire sentence... "From what I hear from his secretary and those in the "inner circle" the idea of a AOC has been rejected by HH Pope Shenouda III and the Holy Synod." -> so therefore, I took this as a rumor you could say, and although I got this information from official sources (e.g the Coptic Khorus of the Sydney Diocese, and some priests) I have yet to get a "definite answer" as I mentioned in my final line........
I will be attending a meeting with HG this friday (in sha' allah) , in which the issue will be brought up and hopefully will be able to confirm. Unless, HG tells us that the decision has been delayed, or that the decision can not be announced as of yet, and so I will not be able to confirm anything.
I personally have no position on the issue, and don't really care what happens, I will be accepting whatever the final decision is, whatever it may be, with joy and obedience.
Keep Praying.
JONO
There is a Serbian proverb which say, "If you are in a deep hole, first thing stop digging"
For the second time yor are implecating HG bishop Daniel and HG's Secretary in leaking Holy Synod and other confidential information to yourself.
Also you give an impression that you are part of HG advisory, by telling the world that you are having a meeting with HG on Friday? Even if this was trutheful? Why do you publisize such private matters, especially that you have compromised the bishop and his secretary before?
Please remember that other people read this site. Have you considered that you may be tarnishing your bishops reputation and showing his administration in a bad light?
Please reconsider.
May the Lord guide all of us.
I am not a part of any advisory. HG is a wonderful Bishop whom all love, and I regret if I "shed bad light" upon the Diocese. This was not my intention.
God Bless.
okay, so i have been against this australian orthodox thing from the start, tho i dont live in australia, tho i felt ur pain, but i wanted a way to get other against it too, and pope shenouda wrote this in his book experiences in life: direct quote here:
[50] Popular Songs
Sometimes people compose a hymn using the same tune as a
popular song.
They imagine that as long as the words are healthy, it does not
much matter about the music!! However, music in itself has an
effect upon the emotions which is no less than the effect of the
words composed to it.
So, the words of spiritual songs should only be set to spiritual
music and melodies which are suited to them.
our pope said this himself...
for more inspiring books of our beloved pope online check out his link rite here:
http://www.coptnet.com/Pope.htm
that shud be enough for u guys surly, addded to everything else everyone said... rite?
Wher In the Suggested Plan for the AUSTRALIAN COPTIC ORTHODOX CHURCH there is a mention of Popular Songs?
Here are the main points (Arabic and English)
ÊÑÌãÉ ÚÑÈíÉ ááäÞÇØ ÇáÓÊ ÚÔÑ ÇáÎÇÕÉ ÈÅäÔÇÁ ÝÑÚ ááßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÈØíÉ áÎÏãÉ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãæáæÏíä Ýí ÃÓÊÑÇáíÇ
(1) Use present liturgies but all in English
ÊÓÊÚãá åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÏÇÓÇÊ ÇáÍÇáíå æáßä ÈÇááÛÉ ÇáÅäÌáíÒíÉ.
(2) For time during communion, introduce western, but churchy type music with Orthodox meaning and dogma.
æÞÊ ÇáÊæÒíÚ ÅÏÎÇá ÈÚÖ ÇáÊÑÇäíã ÇáÛÑÈíÉ ÈáÍä íáíÞ ÈÇáßäíÓÉ æßáãÇÊ ÃæÑËæÐæßÓíÉ ÇáÚÞíÏÉ æÇáãÚäí.
(3) Select a priest who served the Coptic Church as priest for minimum of 10 years, but with previous orthodox vision for another 10 years as a deacon or a SS servant and make this priest the first parish priest.
íÊã ÇÎÊíÇÑ ßÇåä ÎÏã ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÈØíÉ ÇáÃæÑËæÐæßÓíÉ áãÏÉ áÇÊÞá Úä ÚÔÑÉ ÃÚæÇã¡ Úáí Ãä Êßæä áå ÎÏãÉ ÔãæÓíÉ Ãæ ãÏÇÑÓ ÇáÃÍÏ ÐÇÊ ØÇÈÚ æÑÄíÉ ÃæÑËæÐæßÓíÉ áãÏÉ ÚÔÑ Óäíä ÞÈá ÇáßåäæÊ.
(4) Establish a new campus on Sunday with a separate committee under the chairmanship of the bishop, with the parish priest as his deputy.
íÊã ÊÍÏíÏ ãßÇä ÊÌãÚ ÎÇÕ íæã ÇáÃÍÏ ¡ æÃä íßæä áåÐÇ ÇáÊÌãÚ ãÌáÓ ßäíÓÉ ÊÍÊ ÑÂÓÉ ÇáÃÓÞÝ æíßæä ÇáßÇåä äÇÆÈå.
(5) The priest must start to nurture some families to have priests and monks..etc out of them
Úáí ÇáßÇåä ÊÑÈíÉ Ìíá ãä Èíä ÚÇÆáÇÊ ÇáßäíÓÉ áíÎÑÌ ãä Èíäåã ßåäÉ æÑåÈÇä.
(6) This parish would be run by its congregation. They must be financially capable , through paying tith, to support a priest and hire of a place. Then eventually purchase a place.
íÊÍãá ÔÚÈ åÐÉ ÇáßäíÓÉ ãÓÆæáíå ÅÏÇÑÊåÇ ÈÇáßÇãáÒ íÌÈ Ãä Êßæä áåã ãæÇÑÏ ãÇáíÉ ãä ÎáÇá ÇáÚÔæÑ áÍãá ãÓÆæáíÇÊ ÇáßÇåä ÇáãÇÏíÉ æÅíÌÇÑ ÇáãßÇä. æßæÖÚ ÊáÞÇÆí ØÈíÚí íÔÊÑæä áåã ãßÇäÇ ËÇÈÊÇ.
(7) This Parish must run on Sundays. With Sunday school and other services like Bible Studies..etc.
ÊÞæã ÎÏãÉ åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ íæã ÇáÃÍÏ æíßæä áåÇ ãÏÇÑÓ ÇáÃÍÏ ãÚ ÇáÃäÔØÉ ÇáÃÎÑí ãËá ÏÑÓ ÇáßÊÇÈ æÎáÇÝå.
(8) Coptic and Greek lessons must be conducted for interested persons, so translation of remaining books take place, by the hand of linguists
ÊÞÇã Ýí åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÏÑæÓ áÛÉ ÞÈØíÉ æÏÑæÓ áÛÉ íæäÇäíÉ áãä íÛæí åÐå ÇáÏÑÇÓÇÊ. æåÐÇ ÓíÓÇÚÏ Úáí ÊÑÌãÉ ÈÞíÉ ÊÑÇËäÇ ÈæÇÓØÉ ãÊÎÕÕí áÛÇÊ.
(9) Protocol must be written and signed to avoid this parish in splintering out of deviating from the faith.
íÌÈ ßÊÇÈÉ æÊæÞíÚ ÈÑæÊæßæá ÎÇÕ ÍÊí äÖãä ÚÏã ÇäÝÕÇá åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ Ãæ ÇäÍÑÇÝåÇ.
(10) The priest must run proper Asheyas and proper Tasbeha for his people in appropriate times.
íÞæã ÇáßÇåä ÈÅÞÇãÉ ÔÚÇÆÑ ÇáÚÔíÇÊ æÔÚÇÆÑ ÇáÊÓÈÍÉ ÈØÑíÞÉ ÕÍíÍÉ æÝí ÃæÞÇÊ ãäÇÓÈÉ.
(11) Congregation may start to rewrite the music for some of the liturgical songs in tunes to suit the reverence of the Church and the musical taste and ear of the Australian born parishioners. Such tunes to be gradually introduced.
íÌæÒ áÔÚÈ åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÅÚÇÏÉ ÕíÇÛÉ ãæÓíÞí ÈÚÖ ÇáÃáÍÇä áÊäÇÓÈ æÞÇÑ ÇáßäíÓÉ æÎÔæÚåÇ æÃíÖÇ ÇáÊÐæÞ ÇáãæÓíÞí ááÃÓÊÑÇáííä ÇáãæáæÏíä ÈåÐå ÇáÈáÇÏ. æÊÏÎá åÐÉ ÇáäÛãÇÊ ÈØÑíÞÉ ÊÏÑíÌíÉ.
(12) Egyptian born Copts must refrain from migrating to such parish, as they are very well served by the existing 14 parishes.
íÊÌäÈ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ãä ÃÕá ãÕÑí ãä åÌÑ ßäíÓÊåã Åáí åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÌÏíÏÉ¡ ÍíË Ãä ÌãíÚåã íÊãÊÚæä ÈÎÏãÉ ããÊÇÒÉ ßÇãáÉ Ýí ÇáÃÑÈÚ ÚÔÑ ßäíÓÉ ÇáÍÇáíÉ.
(13) Most importantly, unless Australian born committee contacts the bishop and negotiates with HG with a clear plan, such parish will never see the light.
áä ÊÑí ãËá åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáäæÑ ãÇáã ÈÊÝÇæÖ ÇáãæáæÏíä ÈÃÓÊÑÇáíÇ ãÚ äíÇÝÉ ÇáÃÓÞÝ æãÚåã ÊÎØíØ æÇÖÍ.
(14) Australian Copt must respect Egyptian Copts and their ethnic tinges. Egyptian Copts must also respect Australian Copts and their ethnic tinges. However biblical matters and traditional matters of the FAITH (e.g. the 10 Commandments are not to be considered or treated as an ethnic tradition).
íÍÊÑã ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáÃÓÊÑÇáííä ØÈÇÚ æÊÞÇáíÏ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãæáæÏíä Ýí ãÕÑ ãÚ áãÓÇÊåã ÇáÞæãíÉ ÇáÎÇÕÉ Èåã. åÐÇ æíÍÊÑã ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãÕÑííä ØÈÇÚ æÊÞÇáíÏ ÇáÃÞÈÇØ ÇáãæáæÏíä ÈÃÓÊÑÇáíÇ. ãÚ ÇáÃÎÐ Ýí ÇáÅÚÊÈÇÑ Ãä ÇáæÕÇíÇ ÇáÅäÌíáíÉ æãÓÇÆá ÇáÅíãÇä áÇÊÍÓÈ Ãæ ÊÚÇãá Úáí ÃäåÇ ÊÞÇáíÏ Ãæ ÊÑÇË ÅËäí (ãËÇá Ðáß ÇáæÕÇíÇ ÇáÚÔÑ)
(15) The Parish must be involved in all the diocesan activities and must not be isolated. This does not stop them from having their own unique activities.
åÐå ÇáßäíÓÉ ÊÔÊÑß Ýí ßá ÃäÔØÉ ÅíÈÇÑÔíÉ ÓíÏäí æáÇÊäÚÒá ÚäåÇ. æåÐÇ áÇíãäå æÌæÏ ÃäÔØÉ áåã.
so i suggest you get your facts write b4 u rite pages and pages of rubbish..
AND WE DO THE MASS IN 110% IN ENGLISH
every word is english and its still not enough????
And there r also ppl saying that the bible wasnt writen in coptic but greek and alot of irrelivant things along those lines..were not saying is sum sort of super langauge which everyone must know or they will not go to heaven. who cares what langauge the bible was ritten in
or the langauge jesus spoke its so irrelivent
the coptic was used in our mass for centuries
we need to preserve it not just chuk it away. Just because jesus didnt speak coptic doesnt mean its not important
just because the bible wasnt ritten in coptic doesnt mean its not relevant