Hey guys I was reading the last 2 pages of this post and I noticed that when youst was describing her reaction when this guy puts his arm round her Mark replied "he shouldn’t be putting his arm round u in da first place", and some agreed wiv him. But the thing is, the same happens wiv me. Im 14 and have many friends who are guys….16 – 26 year olds and wiv some of them im really close….like we hug and theres the occasional kiss on da cheek. Up till now I never thought of it as something wrong, cuz they see me as their younger sister but some of ur comments on this thread made me think twice. Sooooooooooooooooo wat do u guys think about this? Are my friendships "wrong"?
A question that you might want to think about is this? why do you see your friend hugging you as a better greeting than a friend just saying hi. Why does physical interaction matter that much?? Like i am not saying no hugging period but if you know your friend is gonna be gone for a while or your friend came from a long trip and you haven't seen him for a while than ya maybe a hug is an acceptable thing but a hug on a dialy or weekly basis i don't know about that.
good point but the thing is i love my friends very much.....boys and girls alike. even my best friend is a boy. the huggin bussiness isnt everyday u know.....maybe once every week or 2 weeks.....i grew up having boys and girls as friends so i dont feel shy towards boys as most girls are i actually find it easier 2 talk 2 boys.....yeah u could call me a tomboy ....anyways dat hugging bussiness is just our way of greeting each other...we dont see each other very often so its not on a "daily basis" as u said
i know it is ok with you and i am sure all your friends are good people BUT when you hug somebody who is not much older than you (and 26 is not much older really) you might fall in a couple of sins. 1) The other will fall in the sin of maybe thinking about you in a bad way (not saying that they might but it is a possiblity) 2) i guess you can call it the way you give the "hug" you can trap somebody in sin#1 and now it is kinda your fault and it is a sin towards you because you caused him to sin
i agree very much with gigi... i mean i love all my friends equally... guys and girls... i mean we're all people right? but the point is .... i dont know whtether ot sya anything or not.. if i do he might get the point that i like him and if i dont then i wont ever get rid fo these "butterflies"..... P.S.... i appreciate all of your help.. thank you guys so much for everything... i learned a lot and ive realized that im "normal" lol
I think the problem is that sometimes because of our impurity we make sins out of things that aren't supposed to be sins. If you hug a cousin of a similar age of the opposite sex thats not an unusual the problem is what are the intentions of the person hugging you and how are you interpreting it?
Frist off, never flirt, it is okay to be friendly but we have to guard our souls and emotions so flirting is never okay because it is playing with danger. If you are unsure about a persons intentions then you have to guard yourself and flirting I suppose is a sign that someone wants something from you that they probably shouldn't.
Physical contact is okay so long as it is done as an expression of love and things like that at times of distress can help build strong relationships but only if it is welcomed!
Just look at yourself and see how you feel inside about hugging others and being huged. What are the feelings like and can they be controlled? This is a very difficult issue and it is at there time thet we MUST speak to our father of confession who has experience and can ask questions to help us figure out what kinds of feelings these are. This does involve revelaing embarressing informartion but it is the only safe way to deal with this issue.
Never try to assess the feelings by yourself this is very dangerous because they devil has ways of tricking us and we are very inexperienced at these things and we could be lead into a trap.
Don't worry not all physical contact is bad, the problem is when it changes from being an expression of love to an expression of desire. I hope you all take caution and guard yourselves from these things.
I don't think flirting is wrong. If you flirt with somebody and both people know you are just kidding with those comments or just saying something good about a person (that others might see as flirting) to get them out of a bad mood is not wrong i think ???
This is why I said it is okay to be friendly but not flirt. Fliting is an expression of (amorus love)sexual desire used to allure someone, if I was to be cheered up in that way then I'd rather not be cheered up.
Conversly being friendly can be saying a joke or smiling. The intent here is very different! Never confuse the two.
im sorry guys but i have to disagree. this topic is a hot one at my church. whenever the topic comes up we always hear the same answer "you dont know wat the other person is thinking of ur innocent hug or kiss" and as Youst said, when the guy that she likes hugs her, she thinks more of it. im not picking on u, but i needed an example, hope u dont get offended. and in my opinion a handshake is the same as a hug; so its better to be safe than sorry. thats my opinion
you know, reading this post made me remember some really bad memories for me. :'(. i've been in this situation before and it really does help to tell someone close and to ask for help. there's nothing wrong with that. i was talking to my father of confession about the hugging and kissing with friends, i didn't specify boy or girl. he told me that it's not the actual act of kissing or hugging that's the sin, it's the thought behind it, that's why you should never get too friendly with people because although you may not be affected, the other person may be, and it might be in a negative way. youst, it's so normal for people to like others of the opposite gender but it's how you control those feelings is what makes a difference. don't let it get too far because when you wanna get out, you might not be able to, and that's the dangerous thing.
guys i agree wit egprincess, i think huging and kissing between opposite sexes, although may appear friendly, is wrong, i dont know wat goes on between egypotian guys n girls in america, but over here, between egyptians, its totally not acceptable... here in australia, even being to friendly with a girl, spreads romours... let alone hug and kiss.
I agree with you that I don't think its a good idea but I want to encourage you to remember that hugging is not a temptation, its only a problem because of our weakness. I guess in another time and in another place it would be okay but since we're not there this will have to do.
Its just that I would want to encourage you all to try to replace the bad feelings with good ones. If you don't bad feelings keep regenerating themselves its not enough to be reactive against evil, you have to be proactive and not proactive in cutting it off but doing good. Maybe as a teen its a little bit difficult I'm no sure but I'm very pround of how responsible you all are.
I totally disagree with the concept of 'friendly' hugs and physical interactions because they eventually lead to temptation....And if we are leading ourselves into temptation then why do we pray "....and lead us not into temptation....", this is as bad as dating for fun because there is no purpose of hugging or kissing other than flesh lust from the devil.
I myself try to stay away from getting close to a girl or even sit too close by one..Maybe that's way too much but I like to be in the safe area at all times.
Defender! ur acting like girls have cooties or something. lol. jk. but seriously, there is nothing wrong with keeping a close freind of the other sex, as long as it remains on friendly terms. if u get hints from yourself or the other person taht it is becoming something more, then try to slow the relationship.
wait guys... so let me get this straight... hugs n kisses witht he opposite sex are TOTALLY wrong...???? i think ( no offense to anyone) that thats total nonsense..i mean mayb we can lsoe the kisses but the hugs? wats wrong wiht an innocent hug with a friend... im sorry but i have to disagree with that.. i dont care wat other people say about me... i know when its right and when its wrong.. and id liek to remind u all that im not the one huggin him.. hes the one hugging me... im not getting myself into it.. hes doing it on accident and totally out of pure innocent love and friendship...
I usually don't like to intervene this late in a hot topic, but seeing as Youst just made a great point, I have to. First off, in my church, everyone hugs everyone else, guys hug girls, girls hug guys, guys hug other guys, etc. Its totally normal and we all accept it as a sign of good lasting friendship (i.e. we reaffirm that we will be there for each other). Now concerning kisses on the cheek, this is usually not done in my church between young guys and girls. We think its kinda outta place when in church. But personally, I don't think kissing on the cheek is wrong. In my school, for example, it happens a lot to me or other people, all the same. And I can truthfully tell you that when it happens...its out of gratitude for something the other person did. It does not relate at all to love and this is accepted by all. Yes, there are other ways to show appreciation or thanks, but honestly, which of you could honestly say that you would shake hands with a close female friend of yours? It seems rude somehow to me. I don't know...this is a great topic youst, it applies to almost everyone.
I am poor and needy: and the salvation of Your face, O God, is that which has accepted me. - Chris
There are no hard fast rules here. Each person has their own concience and know how they feel about everything and its important that a person acts in a way that they feel is comfortable. For some people this may involve no contact and for others this may involve a lot of contact but essentially its between that person and their FOC to determine what is right for them and not only that but to judge the way we feel when we do these things so we can investigate whether its right or wrong.
I was saying before that its not enough to cut off bad feelings they need to be activly replaced with good. If you have ivy growing in a building, you need to get to the source, the root that makes it grow. In the same way that evil desire to take advantage of another person for pleasure has to be replaced with good. It is true though that we are very vulnerable to these feelings and we need o be very careful so each of us needs to sit with his/her FOC to decide how best to handle these things and the result won't be the same for everyone.
I can give a comparision I know, in the desert fathers there was a monk who was travelling with his mother and they came to a river and because of her old age he had to carry her. He wrapped his hands with a blanket and he carried her. His mother asked him why he did that and he said to his from his memory the rememberance of the body of a woman because it is fire.
This is very sever, especially if we treat our own mother like that but I'm sure all you experience tells you that not every monk is like that, there are many who are very playful, I know one that plays with girls hair. lol.
In the world of monks there is no consistancy as to how to be virtuous. For some it means completely hiding yourself from temptation and for others they find it as an expression of love but the key to doing anything properly is to sit down with your FOC and let him examine both your actions and their hidden intentions to determine what is best for you.
Well I have to tell u this, maybe u know that already or u've noticed it b4, when you hug someone or kiss them on the cheek, u feel no diffrence in the beggining but then the devil strikes you in your dreams and in your thoughts and plants bad thoughts in you... which later cause a problem, so let's be wise guys.....
".....And lead us not into temptation...." and please Lord don't let us lead ourselves to one either.
guys i recon u should ask ur confession fathers, i mean i dont have to cause i know the answer, but ask ur ones in america ans see wat they say, mayb theres different social behavior over there, defender i agree with u! the only time i think kissin on the check wood b ok, is at christmass, or easter or a big feast... but i believe even that should be avoid, we should live all that little stuff which could lead us to big stuff, til marriage. sin may seem harmless, its disguised by the devil...
Alright let me ask you guys a question, suppose st. Abanoub appeared and wanted to hug any of you young ladies would you let him or be afraid of lust? Likewise for you guys with young martyr st. Muhrail...
Put aside for a moment the idea of being worthy or unworty, would you do it or see it as a potential sin?
YOU are missing the point here, it is not about, a hug or kiss or a handshake, it is about deep INTENSIONS. It is about what the deepest of your emotions are about those kisses and hugs. Soe people are more mature than other, some ppl will take it as normal, while other will go home and have a dream about those meetings where they had contact with the opposit sex.
Don't fool yourself, what do you really feel about it inside, in the deepest of your heart??? ???
I have to say, I agree with Copticsoldier. They brought up a good point about the saint coming to you and asking for a hug. That is a question that really makes you stop and think because it's a hard one. Do you know the reason for the hug? You won't find a random person (or a saint, in this case) coming up to you asking for a hug, there needs to be a legitamite reason. You also have to think about something else. If this person came up to you asking for a hug, and you gave it to them (or kiss) would you do the same in public? My FOC has told me before that if you need to hide whatever it is that you're doing, then it's a sin. If it's something good, there'd be no need to hide it
i guess as it was mentioned before it depends how liberat you and the person you hugging or kissing is. For example i went out with this girl for a few days (lets not get into the "went out" part right now) but we never went beyond a handshake and those were few too for like over a yr and half i think i shake her hand twice or so. And acutally that was a GOOD thing. why? because if i did while i had feelings for her i would have thought bad thought thus commiting a sin and so on so i guess the conclusion that i want to get to and that we said here before depending on how liberat you are and the person you hugging and/or kissig and your feelings towards them (because you can't control their feelings) decides if this is a sin or not
my FOC always told me to not go beyond a handshake because u dont know wat the other person is thinking, OR wat could eventually happen. the devil doesnt come out straight and tell u sin, no he wraps and makes it all nice and make it seem that its nothing. u know how they say dont judge a book by its cover, well, make sure u inspect the book carefully and be wary of it. (bad saying i know, i get corny now and then)
wow okay i've read this whole thread since my last post, and its progressed... quite surprisingly i must say lol anyways, i cant say i know the position youst is being put in mainly because i've never been friends with a guy first, then grew to like him... my best friend just so happens to be a guy my age in my church, and honestly, we've never hugged or kissed or anything... but if the chance ever came up... i dont think i'd mind. i mean he's my best friend and after being friends with him for over 6 years now, i know my feelings towards him and he knows mine. i know he's never had feelings towards me and i never had feelings towards him.. okay, SMS stop ur babbling and get to ur point... my point is that if ur friends with somone or even if u like some guy... try to stay friends a friendship will last longer than any sentimental feelings u have for a guy... friends will be there forever, guys/girls, wont be ps GJI... we may be americans, but that doesnt mean we're not Copts, u make it sound like we're from another planet lol i guess its safe to say we have similar mentalities in some cases
Lol Defender…….guess what I would do if I saw a saint??? I'd scream my head off and run for my life in the opposite direction. lol….seriusly im not joking…I would be soooooooo scared……..im even scared of staying in church on my own or when its dark…. So I guess I would completely freak out if I saw the shadow of a saint let alone seeing a saint himself. :o
Same thing with me, I can never stay at Church aone especialy after knowing about that Saints f the Church are keeping it safe and they are attending with us and they can appear anytime....
But I was just saying, if I get the courage to meet a Saint without fainting, getting a heart attack, stroke, etc., I shall run kiss their feet and then their hands.
Comments
" And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. " Galatians 5:24
keep that in your mind and in your prayers... and everything else will fall into place.
Like i am not saying no hugging period but if you know your friend is gonna be gone for a while or your friend came from a long trip and you haven't seen him for a while than ya maybe a hug is an acceptable thing but a hug on a dialy or weekly basis i don't know about that.
P.S.... i appreciate all of your help.. thank you guys so much for everything... i learned a lot and ive realized that im "normal" lol
I think the problem is that sometimes because of our impurity we make sins out of things that aren't supposed to be sins. If you hug a cousin of a similar age of the opposite sex thats not an unusual the problem is what are the intentions of the person hugging you and how are you interpreting it?
Frist off, never flirt, it is okay to be friendly but we have to guard our souls and emotions so flirting is never okay because it is playing with danger. If you are unsure about a persons intentions then you have to guard yourself and flirting I suppose is a sign that someone wants something from you that they probably shouldn't.
Physical contact is okay so long as it is done as an expression of love and things like that at times of distress can help build strong relationships but only if it is welcomed!
Just look at yourself and see how you feel inside about hugging others and being huged. What are the feelings like and can they be controlled? This is a very difficult issue and it is at there time thet we MUST speak to our father of confession who has experience and can ask questions to help us figure out what kinds of feelings these are. This does involve revelaing embarressing informartion but it is the only safe way to deal with this issue.
Never try to assess the feelings by yourself this is very dangerous because they devil has ways of tricking us and we are very inexperienced at these things and we could be lead into a trap.
Don't worry not all physical contact is bad, the problem is when it changes from being an expression of love to an expression of desire. I hope you all take caution and guard yourselves from these things.
God bless,
CS
This is why I said it is okay to be friendly but not flirt. Fliting is an expression of (amorus love)sexual desire used to allure someone, if I was to be cheered up in that way then I'd rather not be cheered up.
Conversly being friendly can be saying a joke or smiling. The intent here is very different! Never confuse the two.
God bless you,
CS
this topic is a hot one at my church. whenever the topic comes up we always hear the same answer
"you dont know wat the other person is thinking of ur innocent hug or kiss"
and as Youst said, when the guy that she likes hugs her, she thinks more of it. im not picking on u, but i needed an example, hope u dont get offended.
and in my opinion a handshake is the same as a hug; so its better to be safe than sorry. thats my opinion
here in australia, even being to friendly with a girl, spreads romours... let alone hug and kiss.
I agree with you that I don't think its a good idea but I want to encourage you to remember that hugging is not a temptation, its only a problem because of our weakness. I guess in another time and in another place it would be okay but since we're not there this will have to do.
Its just that I would want to encourage you all to try to replace the bad feelings with good ones. If you don't bad feelings keep regenerating themselves its not enough to be reactive against evil, you have to be proactive and not proactive in cutting it off but doing good. Maybe as a teen its a little bit difficult I'm no sure but I'm very pround of how responsible you all are.
God bless,
CS
I myself try to stay away from getting close to a girl or even sit too close by one..Maybe that's way too much but I like to be in the safe area at all times.
:P
Defender
but seriously, there is nothing wrong with keeping a close freind of the other sex, as long as it remains on friendly terms. if u get hints from yourself or the other person taht it is becoming something more, then try to slow the relationship.
I am poor and needy: and the salvation of Your face, O God, is that which has accepted me.
- Chris
There are no hard fast rules here. Each person has their own concience and know how they feel about everything and its important that a person acts in a way that they feel is comfortable. For some people this may involve no contact and for others this may involve a lot of contact but essentially its between that person and their FOC to determine what is right for them and not only that but to judge the way we feel when we do these things so we can investigate whether its right or wrong.
I was saying before that its not enough to cut off bad feelings they need to be activly replaced with good. If you have ivy growing in a building, you need to get to the source, the root that makes it grow. In the same way that evil desire to take advantage of another person for pleasure has to be replaced with good. It is true though that we are very vulnerable to these feelings and we need o be very careful so each of us needs to sit with his/her FOC to decide how best to handle these things and the result won't be the same for everyone.
I can give a comparision I know, in the desert fathers there was a monk who was travelling with his mother and they came to a river and because of her old age he had to carry her. He wrapped his hands with a blanket and he carried her. His mother asked him why he did that and he said to his from his memory the rememberance of the body of a woman because it is fire.
This is very sever, especially if we treat our own mother like that but I'm sure all you experience tells you that not every monk is like that, there are many who are very playful, I know one that plays with girls hair. lol.
In the world of monks there is no consistancy as to how to be virtuous. For some it means completely hiding yourself from temptation and for others they find it as an expression of love but the key to doing anything properly is to sit down with your FOC and let him examine both your actions and their hidden intentions to determine what is best for you.
God bless,
CS
".....And lead us not into temptation...." and please Lord don't let us lead ourselves to one either.
Defender
mayb theres different social behavior over there,
defender i agree with u!
the only time i think kissin on the check wood b ok, is at christmass, or easter or a big feast... but i believe even that should be avoid,
we should live all that little stuff which could lead us to big stuff, til marriage.
sin may seem harmless, its disguised by the devil...
Put aside for a moment the idea of being worthy or unworty, would you do it or see it as a potential sin?
CS
YOU are missing the point here, it is not about, a hug or kiss or a handshake, it is about deep INTENSIONS. It is about what the deepest of your emotions are about those kisses and hugs. Soe people are more mature than other, some ppl will take it as normal, while other will go home and have a dream about those meetings where they had contact with the opposit sex.
Don't fool yourself, what do you really feel about it inside, in the deepest of your heart??? ???
For example i went out with this girl for a few days (lets not get into the "went out" part right now) but we never went beyond a handshake and those were few too for like over a yr and half i think i shake her hand twice or so.
And acutally that was a GOOD thing. why? because if i did while i had feelings for her i would have thought bad thought thus commiting a sin and so on
so i guess the conclusion that i want to get to and that we said here before
depending on how liberat you are and the person you hugging and/or kissig and your feelings towards them (because you can't control their feelings) decides if this is a sin or not
the devil doesnt come out straight and tell u sin, no he wraps and makes it all nice and make it seem that its nothing.
u know how they say dont judge a book by its cover, well, make sure u inspect the book carefully and be wary of it. (bad saying i know, i get corny now and then)
okay i've read this whole thread since my last post, and its progressed... quite surprisingly i must say lol
anyways, i cant say i know the position youst is being put in mainly because i've never been friends with a guy first, then grew to like him...
my best friend just so happens to be a guy my age in my church, and honestly, we've never hugged or kissed or anything... but if the chance ever came up... i dont think i'd mind. i mean he's my best friend and after being friends with him for over 6 years now, i know my feelings towards him and he knows mine. i know he's never had feelings towards me and i never had feelings towards him..
okay, SMS stop ur babbling and get to ur point...
my point is that if ur friends with somone or even if u like some guy... try to stay friends
a friendship will last longer than any sentimental feelings u have for a guy...
friends will be there forever, guys/girls, wont be
ps GJI... we may be americans, but that doesnt mean we're not Copts, u make it sound like we're from another planet lol
i guess its safe to say we have similar mentalities in some cases
Defender.
But I was just saying, if I get the courage to meet a Saint without fainting, getting a heart attack, stroke, etc., I shall run kiss their feet and then their hands.
Defender