Gentlemen and women, i have a small question to ask concerning the Coptic Orthodox Church and its traditions etc:
Has anyone noticed that not ONE song in the tasbeha (the Psalmody) nor one hymn in the mass has the phrase :"Lord, we Love you".
There is "Lord, we praise you, we bless you , we worship you O Lord"... but there is no "we Love u".
Nor in the tasbeha??
Nor in the vespers??
Tell me ONE song where we say "Lord , we love you".
In contrast, protestant songs, are all emotional.. they all have that "we love u" phrase in there somewhere.
Now, it IS a commandment to Love the Lord with all one's heart, soul and mind, but i'd like to know why we don't have it in our prayers??
I met this charismatic nun (she was so annoying) from America (to make it worse).. she kept on tell us :"Just say :"lord, we LOVE U"... ouuff!!!! She drove me crazy.. she was so emotional.
Comments
I think that having such emotional worship is shallow (which is the main reason i dont like some of the protestant songs). God is spirit and those who worship should worship Him in spirit of truth, isnt that what Christ says?
btw, perhaps this is something you are looking for?
(from the Wednesday Psali)
The love that the holy Apostle speaks of, is the Name of Salvation, of our Lord Jesus Christ. When we love the Name of Salvation, of our Lord Jesus Christ, and have mercy toward each other, we fulfill all the Law.
I like your answer . I have no idea myself. Im sure there is a good reason why there is NOT one song in our CHurch that is "emotional".
We have:
* praise for His works,
* praise for His Mercy,
* praise for the fact that His Holy Name has brought Joy to our Souls,
but we never say "Lord, we love u"??
We bless Him:
* all you birds and trees,
* all you living creatures - praise the Name of the Lord
but we never say "Lord, we love u"??
We Thank Him for:
* His mercy is forever,
* He is the creator
* as the father of the Fathers, Abraham Isaac and Jacob and three youths who were captures in the firey furnace,
but we never say "Lord, we love u"??
Now, im 100000% sure that if that phrase is never in the Coptic menu, then there's a good reason behind it.
Did Jesus ever say he loved us?. Never it is through his actions that he showed that he loved us.
Likewise in our hymns the same happens, we worship him through actions which at a deeper level show our true love to him. The hymn as a whole becomes the phrase "Jesus we Love You"
(btw Why don't u change your name?? )
Listen... this is interesting. I mean absolutely no disrespect here, and im just as curious as all of you, but could someone just ask a certified sunday school teacher?? or someone who is in the eklerikaya??
Im sure what u are saying is right, i'd just like the official answer.
Loving God is an action, something you do and show, and not just something you say. By standing and praising God u show your love, which is 100000000% better than keep saying that you love God without showing love.
I think that having such emotional worship is shallow (which is the main reason i dont like some of the protestant songs). God is spirit and those who worship should worship Him in spirit of truth, isnt that what Christ says?
btw, perhaps this is something you are looking for?
(from the Wednesday Psali)
The love that the holy Apostle speaks of, is the Name of Salvation, of our Lord Jesus Christ. When we love the Name of Salvation, of our Lord Jesus Christ, and have mercy toward each other, we fulfill all the Law.
I agree ya habibi.. its very shallow.. u used the word" shallow", i use the word "lame".... what's the difference?!?!
The tasbeha brings the heart to repentance and respect for God. The 1st commandment was to never say the Lord's name in Vain. So, there is respect for His name. The Lord requires us to respect Him and a big part of respect is to admit our mistakes to him, which is what the tasbeha teaches us :"Do not turn your face from me dispite my sins".
Furthermore, given that His holy Name should be respected, the 1st thing we say in "Our Father in Heaven.." is :"Sanctified (Hallowed) BE Your name, Your kingdom come, Your will.... etc"..
If its a commandment to love God, then why didnt Jesus Christ teach us to add " Lots of Love, Amen" at the end of The "Our Father who art in Heaven" prayer???
Priest: Lift up your hearts.
Congregation: We have them with the Lord. Praise, worship and gratitude are the highest expressions of love precisely because selflessness is at their essence, and love is defined as not seeking its own (1 Cor. 13). Love is not an emotion. Emotions are misleading. A true relationship, whether between parent and child, husband and wife, or as between bestfriends, does not stand on emotions. Any relationship which attempts to stand on emotions is bound to crumble and fall, like a teenage crush. True lasting relationships are founded upon the bedrock of sacrifice and selflessness. Our relationship with God should exemplify these attributes; praise and worship serve this purpose very well.
???? if you were to say love is not just an emotion perhaps i wouldnt question it. but love incoporates many things and its definition is not absolute
how often do we tell our parents we love them? how often do we tell God our creator during our prayers that we love him?
Love is not a term that should be used loosely
what you have stated vassilios is true, well i think so anyway as i said love should not be used loosely, it needs to come from the heart and what reflects how we feel? our actions
good summary of the answer vas
But why then do we NOT say the words "We Love You Lord" in the mass NOR tasbeha?
Even if we mean it?
when you love, its from within, why does it need to be verbalised?
That's the answer then. We cannot be accountable for every person to make them say "Lord we love u".
"The one who hath My commandments and keepeth them, that one is the one who loveth me."
I thnk that says it all.
Lets say that someone spends many, many years away from God and his church. That period is the worst time of his life, filled with pain and depression and tears and agony... it goes on forever. Now suddenly this person becomes attached to God and starts going to church. His spiritual life grows and develops into a beautiful one. His relationship with God becomes close to ineffable. He loves God so much, not because he is perfect and follows his commandments, but because it is only between God's arms and under his wings did this person find true rest. When this person, in the deepest prayer, cries out to God and say that it is only between the shelter of his eyes that they could rest, and because of this he will love him for now and forever. This, in no way possible is shallow? I am sorry but that is hard for me to believe. Our love to God should in no way be built on us, for we may change. However God does not change (1 Timothy). So when our love to God is built on his care and love for us, which is what it should be, how then is that shallow.
I know that only when you are perfect that you can say you love God, but I simply want you to imagine the above situation.
" I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you" Jeremiah 31:3
"For God so loved the world that He sent His only son....."John 3:16
there is a lot of verses about God's love for us, God does not need to say He loves us...its quite obvious He shed His blood for us....but there is nothing wrong with saying it I have to disagree, I dont know where you are all from....are we not all coptic here? many of the spiritual songs that we sing in the coptic church we say we love God, whats wrong with that. I dont think we are being hypocritical, maybe we dont love Him as much as He loves us ...yea....but it doesnt mean we absolutely dont love God.....we are not being hypocritical
-"I love you my Lord, yes I love you from all my heart"/ Ana bahabek ya raby aiwa bahebak min alby 3alashan howa inta habeyby we mafeesh gheyrak naseyby
-"Inee oheb el rab la le arbah el na3eem, we la lekay angoo min el3azab fe el gaheem, lakin oheboho la2an ly hoboho yahloo we howa alazy min fadlehy ahabany min kabl"
-Oh beloved, Oh beloved nailed unto the cross for me.........anyways any song where we say o beloved, habeyby yasoo3, it means the one we love?
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So the question to you is, why do you expect us to say that which is superfluous to say in the first place? Every word and phrase in our Liturgical worship has a fundamental purpose and meaning; if you agree with the substance of the responses given to you prior to the inquiry i've quoted above, then you essentially agree that there is no fundamental purpose or meaning to having the words 'I love you' explicitly pronounced, even though, as has been shown, there are elements of our Liturgical worship that explicitly express our Love towards the Lord or that express the idea that our hearts are with the Lord etc.
If i understood what u are saying, it means that basically, i must be on the right path. U are agreeing with me...
So, i feel there must be an award waiting for me...or some nobel prize..
As u said: "the liturgy has words there for a meaning, and it excludes things for a meaning" . It excludes the words "I love u".
Jesus Christ didnt say the words "I love u " in the New Testament.
It means princessMary has a problem now with Iqbal - so, i suggest we do not excommunicate her , nor should we use torture, nor deportation back to Egypt; but we should forgive and teach her the right way.
haha...
Lol...
Take care, and thanks Iqbal.
Vassilios...there is no problem with anyone...... i think it doesnt matter whether the words "I love you" are said or not, its not by words, it is by actions that one shows their love, even if they are said, it doesnt mean it is wrong, but at the same time they are not a necessity. God is the lover of mankind...means He loves us......there is nothing wrong with saying it......and there is nothing wrong if it isnt said, it is quite obvious that God's love for us is beyond what words could ever say, it is a love that is more powerful than all love, His heart is full of the greatest love there ever was, it was a cross of love that He carried for your sake, He died to give us life, He did so much for us....that whether He says " i love you" or not, really shouldnt matter John is in the new testament :P, it says God loves us
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another" John 13:34
"having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end." John 13:1
"Then Jesus beholding him loved him" Mark 10:21
"in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us." Romans 8:37
Its OK. I mean, i'm cool with it. I just so happen to believe and am of the opinion that God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten son for us. That' is love in action.
From our side, love in action, would be a simple question of obeying His commandments. Christ never said though the phrase "I love u".
Did He?
It was said of Him, he said He loved lazarus and Mary and Martha, but he never really said the words "I love u".
He most definately said the word "I", and the word "Love" and the word "You"... but never together like :"I love you".
You can't deny that.
Personally, what u said isnt wrong either.. I was only kidding cos its very rare that Iqbal ever agrees with me.
Luv ya!
Vas
I was only stating facts.
But seriously, u missed Iqbal's argument that our relationship with God isnt just based on emotions...
Yes, Christ loved us to an extent that we can't even comprehend. He doesnt need to say it! He did it! Likewise, He would also prefer that we love Him the same way: i.e. We don't say it, but rather WE DO IT.
What good is it if we say :"Lord , we love u, but we sin against u every day". How can the two go together??
Mary, God doesnt need to spell His love out for me, I know it! But we are discussing US saying "WE LOVE YOU" in the mas s AND the tasbeha.
We don't say it. We don't say it at all..
Yes, there's a period in everyone's life where they must agree with me or iqbal. You've reached that point now in your life, and you must go and share that joy (or frustration) with everyone u know.
Go in peace, and sin no more princess mary.
LOL
u're adorable princess,
Just kiddin witch'ya.. chill..
plzz oh lord allow me to remember