Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Max Michel Youtube
Hey Guyz..
There is a new English subtitled video on youtube by Max Michel
PLEASE please!
Stand up against his rubbish talk and comment on the youtube video
There are 3 videos up there exactly the same....
2 of them are put by islamic extreemists that wont allow you to comment without approval... so you can only rate the video
The one called "Max Michel: 1,8 Million Christians embraced islam" is the one I want you to comment on.
May God help us make the truth prevail
Please support your church
God Bless
There is a new English subtitled video on youtube by Max Michel
PLEASE please!
Stand up against his rubbish talk and comment on the youtube video
There are 3 videos up there exactly the same....
2 of them are put by islamic extreemists that wont allow you to comment without approval... so you can only rate the video
The one called "Max Michel: 1,8 Million Christians embraced islam" is the one I want you to comment on.
May God help us make the truth prevail
Please support your church
God Bless
Comments
I guess he is Satan's little boy.
His inferences and absurd calculations were even questioned by the intereviewer.
I guess he did not have time to talk of the vast expansion of the Coptic Orthodox Church under the Holy Guidance of The Holy Spirit and in the Papacy of Pope Shenouda III, who for me, is a walking giant of Apostolic Presence. He is a Saint in my eyes.
Max Michel needs a chill pill, because if he keeps up his absurdities, he will be alongside Judas for eternity.
Hey Guyz..
There is a new English subtitled video on youtube by Max Michel
PLEASE please!
Stand up against his rubbish talk and comment on the youtube video
There are 3 videos up there exactly the same....
2 of them are put by islamic extreemists that wont allow you to comment without approval... so you can only rate the video
The one called "Max Michel: 1,8 Million Christians embraced islam" is the one I want you to comment on.
May God help us make the truth prevail
Please support your church
God Bless
omg may God help us all_just as Pope Athanasius defended the faith against him may the LORD's Spirit allow Pope Shenouda to defend against this modern heretic.
Forever,
Coptic Servent
+ To sum it up I am dissapointed when some people take his word for all these false figures just to prove that there are a lot of coptic converts. He is trying to attack Pope Shenouda but he ends up attacking the church and causing a lot of problems.
This is not christianity, this is the life of vanity.
Pray 4 me
He created his own church and made himself patriarch, the guy has kids and is married, its not that hard to get a black galabia and a cross
Wow are you like serious. Yeah and i heard he waz in the Clergy college (el kolia el eklerikia)When he waz orthodox
1. He did attend the "Kolleya Klerikeya".
2. Unfortunately, his ordination is valid, because he was ordained by an Old-Calender Orthodox group in the USA that claims Apostolic Lineage.
3. He is married, has kids, etc. On the same show, he freely admitted 'that he marries anyone who wants to get married in the Orthodox way', implying that he been through multiple marriages.
4. He was excommunicated on the basis that he was chasing some girls, and so on.
Now, he is in fact a heretic. I think his only purpose is to stir problems between the COC and other groups, including Muslims.
That is as far as I know regarding this modern heretic. Kind of contradicted yourself there - if they are not Orthodox, they are wrong ;)
And ilovesaintmark , you may want to be careful of what you say about H.H. - I think we should wait until he is formally declared a Saint before we can go on about him.
please allow me to humbly correct some things:
[quote author=Severus link=topic=6212.msg82160#msg82160 date=1203047694]
2. Unfortunately, his ordination is valid, because he was ordained by an Old-Calender Orthodox group in the USA that claims Apostolic Lineage.
His ordination is not valid. He was ordained by a few excommunicated bishops (mahroumeen). Each of these were thrown from their churches (for a serious reason) and stripped from their position and from their priest-hood. That means if they pray the liturgy, the bread and wine will not get changed to the body and blood of Christ of God. If that is so how can they ordain a patriarch. I can't stress enough that his ordination is not valid. I repeat, his ordination is invalid. It is like having a few laymen who gather together and ordain deacons, priest,bishop or even a pope. It's not possible in the eyes of God. I repeat, his ordination is invalid!
Pray 4 me
Hey Severus,
please allow me to humbly correct some things:
[quote author=Severus link=topic=6212.msg82160#msg82160 date=1203047694]
2. Unfortunately, his ordination is valid, because he was ordained by an Old-Calender Orthodox group in the USA that claims Apostolic Lineage.
His ordination is not valid. He was ordained by a few excommunicated bishops (mahroumeen). Each of these were thrown from their churches (for a serious reason) and stripped from their position and from their priest-hood. That means if they pray the liturgy, the bread and wine will not get changed to the body and blood of Christ of God. If that is so how can they ordain a patriarch. I can't stress enough that his ordination is not valid. I repeat, his ordination is invalid. It is like having a few laymen who gather together and ordain deacons, priest,bishop or even a pope. It's not possible in the eyes of God. I repeat, his ordination is invalid!
Pray 4 me
While none of the ordaining bishops belong to a canonical Orthodox group, they still claim Apostolic Lineage. The group has schismed from the Greek Orthodox Church, they were not excommunicated. They split due to issues over the Gregorian Calendar in the 1920s. They are known as Old Calendarists.
This is the truth, whether we like it or not.
1) He paid money to be join this council who ordained him - this is not the Orthodox way of being ordained.
2) He has three daughters and is married and at least in the last 19 centuries no Orthodox bishop has been married. No matter the denomination of the Orthodox.
3) The official Greek patriarch has declared that he did not ordain him.
4) The Greek Orthodox and its affiliations are a Chalcedonian church, while us Copts, as well as Syrians and Armenians, Ethiopians and Indians are Non-Chalcedonian churches, meaning he cannot be ordained by a different faith (monophysite, not miaphysite).
5) He did this for personal gain in Egypt, and in this Al-Jazeera interview, he is clearly stirring troubles between Pope Shenouda and the muslims, and between Copts and Protestants - he was mocking us.
6) Since when in our history has a pope been ordained outside of Egypt? He was ordained in America!
7) How can he be ordained as a patriarch when Pope Shenouda, may God preserve his life, is still on his throne?
May God show him the error of his ways. He ought to read Moses' books to see what happened to those who were self-ordained as priests.
joe
1. I'd like to see the article where it claimed that he paid money for his ordination.
2. Correct, however Pope Demetrious, the 12th Pope, was married. He never had children though, so good point.
3. Correct.
4. Clarify this point? I do not really understand. The Old-Calendarists carry the same Christology as the GOC.
5. Correct...
6. He does not claim to be the Patriarch of the COC.
7. He is the 'patriarch' (if you can call him that) of St. Athanasius church.
In any case, there is a lot of false information being spread about him and I thought I would just set the record straight. I am not defending him, just pointing out facts about his ordination.
Please be careful about using the term "ex-commmunicated" when relating to Fr. Matta. I do not agree with a lot of things that happened during that era, and that is for another topic. However, Fr. Matta was accorded all of the rites and honors befitting an abbot of a monastery.
Severus,
In my comments, I made a personal statement concerning Pope Shenouda. He is a true hero of the Church. A saintly man in all regards. My appreciation of him, as is any true member of the Coptic Orthodox Church, is such, that his papal era has blessed our people and preserved them. Not him specifically, but through him as a human being submitting himself to the Will of the God (the Father), as an instrument of the Holy Spirit. I stand by my comments and by no means was I categorically and unilaterally canonizing him.
His Holiness needs us all even more. He is under attack from different sides. The attacks are personal and organizational. This satanic, Max(Satan)Michel, is such an attacker. He is carrying out the work of Satan. Max(Satan)Michel's comments, although veiled, constitute personal attacks on His Holiness. There is a long history between them, and this Max(Satan)Michel is trying to carry this to a limit of destroying His Holiness in many regards.
I am often dismayed that the Litany for the Hierarchs (for the Pope and Bishops) is refrenced by 'time considertion' not said or incompletely annunciated. I find this a ridiculous practice, and inexcusable. His Holiness, as a Pope, a true father to us all, the highest representative of the Coptic Orthodox Church, successor to the Apostle St. Mark, all the saintly popes that have sat on the throne, a human being that shares our flesh, is not deserving of the full complement of the calling of the Litany of the Hierarch. I have made it a point of bringing that to several priests' attention. I call upon all of you in this forum to apply pressure on all participants in the Divine Liturgy to not look at their watches, and to humbly call upon Our Almighty God for the sake of our saintly father.
Where is our fervent plea for Our Church and Our Pope? If our prayers are with fervor, this Max(Satanic)Michel will either repent or be "struck down". We are not afraid of him, and if anything it should mobilize us to be more fervent for honoring our Mother, the Holy Church. We do not have to take up arms. That is not Christian. We have never done that nor should we ever. We should carry our Church with full respect, and prayers for Her and Her priests.
Abouna Matta was not excommunicated but his writing now is included among the course of “Comparative Theology” taught by HH Pope Shenouda himself to the students of Coptic Seminary. We can discuss his writing in another thread for the edification of us all and to prevent his teaching from getting to the mind of innocent young believers.
Max Michael, on the other hand, established a new patrearchate which he intended to be parallel to the Patriarchate of Alexandria. He resides over all who are in opposition to HH and all the divorsees whom the Coptic Church does not recognize their illegal divorce or remarriages.
Included is the Common statement between the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Greek Patriarch Church of Egypt and All Africa regarding max Michael.
http://www.copticpope.org/downloads/commondec/commondec-2-2006eng.pdf
Fr. Matta has gone to his repose and should be left to Judgment Day. My understanding was that there were bishops from the Holy Synod present at his funeral rite. I guess there was a certain reverence given to his historical writings and the fact that he was an abbot of the monastery.
As for the other two, they are megalomaniacs looking for grandeur. I met George Habib originally back in 1977 and he struck me as an odd one in a lot of things he said (even back then). Unfortunately, he was trusted back when and he is a Judas to Our Christ, Christ's Church, and specifically to the person of His Holiness. As my brother often reminds me, why should we not expect betrayal, when Our Lord was betrayed by one of the twelve.
Ill address my points again:
1) When I said that he paid money, i didn't say for his ordination, but rather for his membership to the council that ordained him. Ive found a few links about the summary:http://www.coptic.org.au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=317 Here is an official document signed by H.H. Pope Shenouda III and Pope Theodorus II of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate regarding the issue:http://www.copticpope.org/downloads/commondec/commondec-2-2006eng.pdf
4) As for this fourth point, I'd like to quote from www.britishorthodox.org
In 1992 he established an association which he put under the patronage of Saint Athanasius in an endeavour to establish some spurious degree of legitimacy. There were always other dissenters who needed him, just as he needed them, so his little schism grew. Although he had married and fathered two daughters, he began to realise that being an excommunicated reader lacked the dignity necessary to lead his own church. In July 2005 he blossomed forth as Maximus Hanna or Maximus I, Archbishop of the St. Athanasius Orthodox Eparchy of Egypt and the Middle East, his ‘ordination’ having been supplied by a miscellaneous collection of episcopi who worked as a loose confederation known as the ‘Holy Synod for the American Diaspora of true Orthodox Christians.’ None of the ordaining bishops belonged to a canonical Orthodox Church and their claim to apostolic succession appears to derive entirely from Byzantine rather than Oriental Orthodox sources, most recently from a schismatic group of Greek ‘Old Calendarists’, who descend from bishops who separated from the Church of Greece in the 1920s over the introduction of the Gregorian Calendar. Normally ‘Old Calendarists’ espouse Orthodoxy of the most rigorist and extreme conservatism, but Max Michel’s consecrator was trained as a Counsellor and Therapist in behavioural psychology and is involved with Jungian Psychology and Zen Meditation, not subjects generally regarded as compatible with authentic Orthodox theology and tradition !
Whilst Max Michel is a former Copt his following cannot be described as a ‘split’ or a ‘schism’ from the Coptic Orthodox Church as it is composed of similar malcontents whose only common ground seems to be opposition to the Coptic hierarchy. Acting from opportunism rather than principle he offers his own programme of “liturgical, social, and cultural” reforms, saying that his priority is to bridge the gap (between Christians and Muslims) and to “re-establish the status of Copts as citizens, not a religious community.” Although he claims to promote Patristic Theology his defence of divorce, espousal of a married episcopate and other liberal ‘reforms’ represent an abandonment of Orthodox tradition. By adopting traditional Coptic vestments and clerical dress he is misleadingly presenting himself as an authoritative voice of the Coptic Church, whereas in reality he represents only himself.
6) Forgive me for my mistake.
7) I follow your point
joe
As far as Oriental vs Byzantine lineage, I think that does not matter since all Apostolic lineages are recognized. This group shares the same lineage as the GOC up until the 1920s.
An example of the recognition of Apostolic Lineages would be that our priests, if they wanted to switch to Roman Catholicism, would not need to be re-ordained and vice versa.
That's my take on it, atleast...
You really have no idea what you're talking about. "Orthodox Orthodox"? An "Orthodox Orthodox" that mixes Zen Buddhism with Orthodox theology? I don't think so. From the Eastern Orthodox perspective, this group is known as a "vagante" group. They are neither affiliated with mainstream Eastern Orthodoxy nor the Old Calendar movement; and as far as their theology is concerned, they are not traditionalist; they espouse innovative new-age type teachings. First of all, not "all Apostolic lineages are recognized," That's rubbish. Second of all, they cannot trace themselves to any group, either New Calendar or Old Calendar. Rather, they are part of a group of independent churches known as "the Christ Catholic Church International." Nonsense. The Orthodox Church would not recognise a Roman Catholic's baptism let alone his ordination.
joe
For many years before Father Matta's departure there was many reports about disagreements between him and Pope Shenouda III. [12]
I hope you know how to read Arabic because pope Shenouda wrote the following book, “New heresies” , Beda3 Hadeetha, http://www.copticpope.org/books/new-h.pdf , criticizing his theological writing and defending the faith of the Orthodox Church once handed down to her by the Apostles. This book is now a compulsory course and must be studied by the students of all Coptic Seminaries.