Why do we believe that there has to be a God, also what is the proof that the Christian God is the real God? I know these seem to be odd questions but they have been bugging me!
I had talked to an agnostic kid and he kept saying that religion was created as a comfort and it is all a fake imagination of a random guy? And he kept saying that christianity is the weirdest one because how can someone rise from the dead? I was questioning before this but this made me really think? WHY?????
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Why do we believe that there has to be a God, also what is the proof that the Christian God is the real God? I know these seem to be odd questions but they have been bugging me!
I had talked to an agnostic kid and he kept saying that religion was created as a comfort and it is all a fake imagination of a random guy? And he kept saying that christianity is the weirdest one because how can someone rise from the dead? I was questioning before this but this made me really think? WHY?????
well since he's "agnostic", he also believes in a "religion." a religion is basically a person's belief in somthing and his actions upon this.
using the example of the "raising from the dead" as an excuse to destroy Christianity, just sounds....."unintelligent" rather then another word i would use. Christ's Resurrection is different then all (that why it's capitalized). but the normal concept of raising someone from the dead didn't start when Christ came, but rather happened in the OT. that's why when ppl come to consider a great miracle that Christ did, they don't recall a raising from the dead, but rather, for example, "the man born blind" where Christ CREATED eyes.
Other then the HOLY BIBLE, and what's in it, there are many miracles that happened in the name of our God.
It's all about true faith and what will God bring to that person upon his faith. it's the way to go. it's allll about faith and hope.
Pray for My Weakness.
That was really good but i still want to know why does their have to be a God??
Pray for My Weakness.
well that's the perfect question of an atheist. and again, as i always say, the most simple answer you can say without explaining any scientific facts; "Look at yourself in whole including your body, your mind, your brain (physical and mental), the place you live in, and the universe in general. how can that come from NOTHING. Even evolution that atheists use to define the denial of God can NEVER explain everything in the world or even your own body including the brain.
Here in the US they say there have to be "An Intelligent BEING" that is behind all of this....meaning GOD. But that is just said to not hurt some religions. by "religions" i mean those of atheism because atheism is A RELIGION....sooo
Pray for my weakness
Then why the Christian God? And how do we know that this God Really is Christ, and not some random being? One that created the Earth and left it as some of the Renaissance, who invented the idea of deism, which is the idea of a machine like world. Where God created the world as a clock maker makes a clock and left it to work. He only intervenes.
Pray for my weakness
well that where you have the Bible to use. You first have to believe in GOD and then follow His ways through His massage to this world; The Holy Scripture. the Basics of our whole religion (in general not including all the other main sources of our faith as "Orthodox").
until now, science have not denied what's in the Bible as in a full clear way; meaning FACTS rather then THEORIES.
why go far, Albert Einstein was a Jewish, not believing in jews being "the chosen people of GOD" said, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind ... a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist."
here, by religion, to us, it mean the Holy Bible. be sure to understand that I am not undermining the Bible, being the ultimate source, just saying that science just help this weak-faith world understand the Bible.
I suffered the same problem.. and doubts may still come to me at times.. Well a Bishop said to me not to dwell on the thoughts because they come from the devil.. he said distract myself and they will go away and the old thoughts will go away.. He said to read alot from the bible.
Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.. and it is said faith comes from hearing the word of God.. it is the seed is it not? whereby our faith starts or is strengthened.Jesus will disperese the clouds of doubt..
Why must there be a God? There is something rather than nothing.. think how did you come into existence.. does it make sense that nothing intelligent eventually gave birth to an intelligent being such as yourself? must it not be a personal being who we simply do not understand. Does it make sense that something existed from all eternity without someone making it? I conclude it must rather be made by Someone who we just do not understand His power and other qualities.
Second. If there is a God it makes sense that one day eventually He will want to make Himself known to beings like us. The bible is the only book which reveals this personal God and explains the start of the world and His mighty acts. Not only one day, but since His love is great He revealed Himself from the beginning. He never wanted us to suffer to live alone.
Thirdly all the Law and the Prophets prophesied of Christ.. this is a mystery but it is still true..
By time you will believe this to be true. "Wait on the LORD, be of good courage and He shall strengthen your heart. Wait I say on the LORD" This waiting involves abiding still in Christs commandments and seeking Him still.
Jesus said "If you abide in my word you are my disciples indeed" this He said to those who had weak faith. So we must hold fast the commandments.
Some prophesies which may be very obvious is Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53. Isaiah itself is called by some the fifth gospel. There are other verses which prophesy of Christ.
Finally pray for me also with this vicious diabolical war from Satan. Also do not try to convince this agnostic so he pollutes us further and further. Also this does not mean I ignore the fact that some agnostics are having their own struggles with faith and not just trying to make us fall.
Jesus said to Peter flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but My Father in Heaven. The Holy Spirit is there to convict the World of Sin because they do not believe in Jesus. Jesus said if a man does not withhold bread from his son if he asks for it.. how much rather will God give the Holy Spirit(which will help you believe) to those who ask Him. Ask God from all your heart.
And again I say pray for me and all doubters so that wolves do not come again with diabolical poison.
I felt compelled to reply to you.
Can you make this fellow watch carefully these two lectures?
First pray. Then let him watch them in correct order, they're very helpful to clarify many points.
In the Beginning Was Information, Parts 1 to 3 (solid proof of God)
http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/beginning-was-information/beginning-was-information
Intricacies of Flight, Parts 1 to 4 (amazing eye opener)
http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/intricacies-of-flight/intricacies-of-flight He is the only God there is no other:
He is Holy, He is Almighty.
He is Omnipresent and Omniscient.
He created time, space and matter.
He created the Earth for us.
He created us in His image.
He is the fullness of Love. He's right on this one!!
This again proves He is the only Creator life giver God, that He controls and sustains life.
(no other invented 'deity' can claim doing such high end miraculous works).
GBU
there is this show i forget the name where people die go to heaven and hell and see christ they see such a bright light here is anthor argument closed weather there is a hell or heaven.
what that bishop said is true it is the work of the deval.
the deval will work non stop to get us of the path of jesus christ
we have to pray stay stron confess take comunion and noskhor allah for our blessig by the king and mercifull god jesus christ for him there would be no us or forgivess he is the maker of all good things.
Pray for my weakness, and thank you all for your posts.
Also thank you John_S2000 for those videos, they are very good thank you very much.
You want some reassurance? Check it out:
Fine Tuning:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html
www.2001principle.net/2005.htm
That is absolutely INCREDIBLE isn't it? That is something that atheism can never account for, they don't talk about that one much because its an area where there truly is no argument. Its not proof of God, but its (incredible) evidence that, along with tonnes of others points towards one God.
Archeology:
http://christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a011.html?zoom_highlight=jericho
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a007.html
In some cases, like Jericho, its downright scary how much evidence there is for the things in the Bible REALLY happening. Sodom and Gommorrah especially, where archaelogists found two cities in the area where the Bible said they should be which had both been destryed by fire. What's more, the fires started on the roof!!!
I've got heaps more info like this if you're interested btw. There are some great books on apologetics that are easy to read and straightforward. Even though it goes much further than physical evidence, the philosophy of Christianity is just as striking, and makes just as strong a case for its authenticity.
I dont think that we belong to a religion.. because a religion is exactly what your friend said it is.
We believe in truth. So we know that there is a God because of what we can see around us. We know who He is because he gave us the book of life (which has been proven reliable).
This is not a matter of faith but logic.
Dear friends,
If I am not mistaken there are frequently such Qs that is seen in this forum lately. U really need to be careful of not abusing other ppl's pure faith. If u really love God He will surely reveal Himself to u in anyway. For the time being just hold ur poison to urself or at least tell ur FOC, pray over it, hold a fast, refer books written, browse the net thus u will not harm others by spreading ur devlish idea. God will even give u credit for holding that to urself for the sake of protecting other innocent ppl.
May God give us fear, the soil on which true faith and love of God growth.
To know God u need wisdom. " The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. "
God is not like a research paper u will get A+ by collecting data or being a genius. God is not also like a far away country to be explored. Knowing and having faith in God is a gift of God Himself. Even if u happen to see God, u shall not recognize Him unless He wants to reveal Himself to u. There were millions who have seen Jesus but only a few priviledged to look at Him as God.
Once a monkey tried to eat a grape but failed after many attempts to jump. Finally the monkey walked away saying " after all it is sour ". This monkey has not tested the grape so have no idea about how it would taste. Just like this monkey there r ppl who say all these nonsense things about God, a Being so Good. The fact that u did not actually witness God in ur life either b/c of ur weak faith or ur pride will not in anyway surprise those who daily see Him in His works, talk to Him in prayers.
May God be with us all with His holiest mother, holy angels, saints in mercy and love forever. Amen!!!
I too had these doubts, an agnostic person believes in a higher power, so he does believe that God exists, just doesn't want to allow his mind to accept that its the Almighty God! if he's an atheist then he doesn't believe in God period... or rather say his god is science...
as mentioned before, its not the best to talk to people about religion unless you are assured of yours, and know it. they say easy comes, easy goes... if you don't work for your relationship with God, then you wont deserve to see Him, and know Him. so why not work on your relationship with God, talk to Him, you will talk to the "wall" for a while, but when God looks in your heart and sees that you really want to see Him, He will surely give you what you want!
now a thought of God not existing... then explain to me how miracles are made?! when somebody has saint Mary come to them and perform a surgery, and leave the parts cut out next to the person, so that they may see God's glory! how many times did saint Mary appear in front of hundreds of thousands, if not millions! these are all things God allows for the glory of His name. if these saints do such miracles, and they follow the Almighty God, then does God exist or not?!
Saint Bishoy gave all his life to God, that is why God graced him with His appearance... so take saint Bishoy as your role model, instead of just his name... Saint Bishoy stayed all night praying to God talking to God, to the "wall" but he knew how much God loves him, and will listen to him... and I think you would agree that God did listen to saint Bishoy. Saint Bishoy became a friend to God, God visited him many times, and sent His saints to help saint Bishoy in explanations, in everything! so you also must do that, talk to God, tell him you want to see Him work in your life, to touch Him and get close to Him, to hear Him speak to you for whats right and whats wrong, to taste Him in your life and be able to finally find peace, and to smell Him the sweet aroma to notice He's around even when you cant see Him at times... let Him consume all your senses! but before He does anything you have to do your 1% so that He may do Your other 99%!
akhadna el baraka... neshkor Allah!
Also, I recommend St. Augustine's Confessions, because as he goes from Milan to Rome, and as he meets St. Ambrose and some other Catholic (Universal- remember this is before Chalcedon) Christians, and he starts to understand that God and Satan cannot be equal entities. He also debates the existence of morality. He argues extensively that there is no such thing as "right" and "wrong" if there is no Absolute Uncreated Substance that has made human consciousness- but the fact that we strongly agree on basic principle that there is, is very strong evidence for a higher consciousness. It is a bit heavy on the philosophy side of things, but it is a riveting read.
Imagine the universe, the human body, all this chemical reactions that follow eachother in the organs who together form a whole human being built to survive for over 100 years at times! Did that just come to existence by accident???
If you threw a ton of bricks in the air, is it possible they would land back on earth forming a perfect modern house with all its luxuries??? Don't you need a great architect to work out everything, measure the angles, use a good kind of brick, etc...
If in doubt about God's existence or the existence of Jesus Christ as God, which many of us have had and can still have at times, you shoul look at the history of our blessed Coptic church. Or just look at the present. How many saints have performed how many miracles over the ages, all to glorify the Lord...
The Lord and His saints are present in our lives, it's we who have to open our eyes, or better yet, ask the Lord to open up our eyes so that we may see Him...
God Bless
Please pray for my weakness
You're right Anba Bishoy, its normal for EVERYONE to doubt now and then, but you shouldn't be afraid of it. When you experience doubt, you could take it 2 ways, you can either hide from it or you can explore it and discover the truth. Every time you resolve a doubt, the more confident you become in our faith! The Church has nothing to fear from investigation, if it did, I wouldn't be proud to be a part of it.
You want some reassurance? Check it out:
Fine Tuning:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html
www.2001principle.net/2005.htm
That is absolutely INCREDIBLE isn't it? That is something that atheism can never account for, they don't talk about that one much because its an area where there truly is no argument. Its not proof of God, but its (incredible) evidence that, along with tonnes of others points towards one God.
Archeology:
http://christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a011.html?zoom_highlight=jericho
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a007.html
In some cases, like Jericho, its downright scary how much evidence there is for the things in the Bible REALLY happening. Sodom and Gommorrah especially, where archaelogists found two cities in the area where the Bible said they should be which had both been destryed by fire. What's more, the fires started on the roof!!!
I've got heaps more info like this if you're interested btw. There are some great books on apologetics that are easy to read and straightforward. Even though it goes much further than physical evidence, the philosophy of Christianity is just as striking, and makes just as strong a case for its authenticity.
Sure if you can but just e-mail me, since apparently there are ppl who don't like these kind of topics.
I want to say something to anybody who thinks that these topics are just a hurtful thing, i learned so much from this topic. I would rather talk about my doubt to my Coptic brothers than go to anybody and discuss it with him/her. So whoever things this is a waste of space on this wonderful website, i have to say you are wrong because these topics are what strengthen us. It's the question that seeks the answer and we must seek God, not just blindly follow their parents or even their church, but we in such a demanding society must be able to understand our religion and live it so that these questions lose their affect. There are things we must fight by running but there are also things that we must fight by knowledge and experience.
I want to also say that for one to know God yes they must talk to him but they must also understand their facts because although Saint Bishoy was a man of prayer he was also a man of reading as mentioned by someone he was visited by saints to interprete to him. Well now we have those saints in books, thanks also to our beautiful Church and church fathers.
Thank you all and Pray for my weakness.
That's exactly right Anba Bishoy! I think its silly how people hide from this topic. How does that make us look to non-believers? Like we've got something to hide. That's not what we want.
"..sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame." 1 Peter 3:15
I'll be in touch by email...
The question raised by the agnostic, although somewhat burning to theological standings of our time, poses no significant threat when carefully assessed. I was so taken by your inquiry and the amount of effete responses that were layed down before your question, that I felt compelled to respond myself. Keeping in mind that the Agnostic essentially claims to know nothing about God or at least finds knowledge of God ineffable, one must begin by surveyting the logical consitency of his presuppositions.
Essentially, what he agnostic is presuming by his philosophically driven question is that statements pertaining to God are meaningfully asserted. So that in the event the Agnostic jettisons or expurgates God from the paradigm of his worldview, the question raised remains meaningfully and powerfully positioned. Ironically however, the agnostic holds no claim to knowledge of God whatsoever. The assertion that without God in the framework of existence, life can still have meaning ascribed to its essence, is a potent and direct statement about the nature of God and His relation to existence. Such strong-headed agnosticism is really no more than a backdoor attempt of concealing clandestine atheistic tendencies. Without reservation, I would bet that the agnostic you are conversing with is really no more than a self-renounced atheist who has duplicitously retained his initial beliefs but is aiming to hold on to a more seemingly defensible view. In essence, unless your friend can come to assert the "alpha" "gnosis" in its full repertoire, he can never claim to be a full-fledged agnostic.
Yet, let us presume for arguments sake that your friend indeed was agnostic about belief in God. That is to say, let us pardon your friend on this matter with the benefit of an indefensible doubt. The statement that meaningfulness can be ascribed to existence without God not only presumes knowledge about God's "negative state" (if such a term may be permitted), but knowledge about absolute meaningfulness in general. For unless meaningfulness is derived on the platform of absolute, by what means can your friend be certain that life is meaningful without God? The statement he has delivered retains a presuming meaningfulness, does it not? Now, with absolute meaning provoked in the paradigm of thought, a foundational basis for such meaning must be established. I can recall a conversation that was ensued between an agnostic professor and renowned theologian. The professor had actually come to believe that life, on its own accord, was utterly meaningless. He had claimed that “life was meaningless” and therefore God was meaningless as well. Ironically, as inexorably as such a statement will partially rise to the occasion of truth (for without God meaningfulness is assertably unintelligent), as the theologian shrewdly retorted, are we then to suppose that the agnostic’ claim to meaningless is meaningfully asserted? In the most basic of his conversational rhetoric the agnostic could not find the strength to unwaveringly release all sense of purpose and truth. Language and the subsequent ramifications thereof, are an integral component of meaningfulness. How gloriously then the apostle in John 1:1, in all of his fervor, ascend to the heights of language and its’ unyielding origin….“In the beginning was the Word”, spout the apostle from divine inspiration. The Word testifies to the necessary contingency language itself has on foundation of absolutes.
Reminiscently, it was the wise Solomon who prophetically denoted that existence was riddled in an immutable vanity of even greater vanity. For a world where all beliefs, all accomplishments, all testimonies, all acts of munificence and all endeavors to truth are utterly and inescapably doomed to the grave, is a world that ebbs and flows on the shifting sands of an emptiness intermingled with unprecedented hopelessness. By what means then can the agnostic say that life is meaningfully ascribed, if life is destined to be vanquished to absolute oblivion? Such was the age-old question Loran Eslie had faced-off with as she described man's fiendish condition, in its entire gratuity, as the "cosmological orphan". Without God, one is left with not merely the vacuous domain of unanswered questions about meaning…..apart form His promise of eternity and the establishment of eternal hope in His kingdom of love, one can not even begin to ask the question. For the inquiry surrounding whether or not meaning apart form God is feasible un-shockingly self destructs. Upon what basis can we hold the question itself to be meaningfully asserted if it is derived from and entailed unto an existence where questions serve for the good of the present moment but hold no eternal clutch on the deliverance of the future? Not only does one find that the question remain meaningless, but the very belief that such a question is answerable with any sense of cohesiveness falls apart under the glimpse of inevitable vanity. Life apart from God can hold no inherit meaningfulness and the agnostic must first defend the question before he can promptly attempt to solidify the answer.
for an Orthodox this book may not be a good read partly due to the fact that St. Anselm is Roman Catholic and belives that the Holy Spirit precedes from Christ however this does mean that one should not read it i am of the opinion that one should read all kinds of books even books that athiests have written b/c it will better help you formulate your arguments better and thereby making your faith stronger!
NESS<><
My ongoing path to understanding has brought me to a very interesting and strange point that I think you may find interesting, if not helpful.
As a Christian I believe in God without question. <This would be a great place for a discussion on the definition of faith, but I'll save you the reading time.> ;)
As a lover of science, I enjoy seeking understanding by means of the scientific method. The scientific method necessitates the use of tangible physical objects to perform experiments to either prove or disprove a hypothesis. That being the case God can't be a means of explanation in science.
Therefore the existence of God is neither a religious question nor a scientific question; it is purely a phylisophical question.
I further believe that philosophy can't and shouldn't be taken too seriously. I believe the best understanding from philosophy can be obtained my playing with the idea in question.
The strange point this brings me to is, even though I take God seriously, lately I don't take the question of his existance seriously. So, by way of playing with the question, and as a way to help understand an answer, I would like to ask you a question. Why does there have to be an Anba Bishoy, and why does it have to be the one on this forum?
George
I sadly expect that next year will be a very difficult year for us. Starting as early as next month many evil sources will work more against Christians, in the process a lot of evil will be exposed but our younger ones will be more and more indoctrinated against the true sound faith. We have the duty to compensate for this situation, stand firm in faith and everybody stick together in Christ.
When there is too much arguing we must refer to the Holy Bible (both the OT and NT are the word of God) and all Christians will agree no doubt.
Isaiah 45:5-13 (NKJV)
5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.’
8 “ Rain down, you heavens, from above,
And let the skies pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open, let them bring forth salvation,
And let righteousness spring up together.
I, the LORD, have created it.
9 “ Woe to him who strives with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth!
Shall the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
Or shall your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’?
10 Woe to him who says to his father, ‘What are you begetting?’
Or to the woman, ‘What have you brought forth?’”
11 Thus says the LORD,
The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
“ Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons;
And concerning the work of My hands, you command Me.
12 I have made the earth,
And created man on it.
I—My hands—stretched out the heavens,
And all their host I have commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
And I will direct all his ways;
He shall build My city
And let My exiles go free,
Not for price nor reward,”
Says the LORD of hosts.
Remember: no human can oppose the Lord forever.
Science proves the omnipotence of God.
Romans 1:20-22 (NKJ)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
GBU
Sorry for being so cryptic, but I think it communicated my concept pretty well. Basically, my idea boils down to this:
Just as there is no way to prove your existence within the confines of this forum, I think we will never find a viable proof of God's existence within the confines of this material existence. I know there are a number of so called "proofs" out there for the existence of God, but none of them sit right with me. Not because of any form of doubt. It just doesn't seem right that people would even want to replace their pure and natural faith for a logical construction.
Concerning the part of your original question that asks, "Why does it have to be the Christian God?":
As of this writing, I don't think I know you off of this forum, therefore in order for me to respond to you, I had to get on the internet, log onto tasbeha.org, and click on this forum. Are there other ways for me to find you? . . . Very likely, but they don't apply to me right now.
In order for us to establish a relationship with God, the only method he gave us in this world is Jesus Christ. Are there other ways to find God? . . . Maybe, but I'm pretty sure there are a great many more ways to get lost looking for him without Jesus. And then what? Let’s say we really did find the "God particle" we'd still have to go through Jesus to build our relationship with God. So what did we gain?
I hope I was clearer this time around. You can probably tell that this is one of my favorite philosophical topics.
Thank you for the discussion.
God bless,
George