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Censer in the liturgy
Hello everyone,
This sunday, I served in the altar and as I have been taught,
I emptied the censer (shoria) during the communion.
An uncle told me that I should keep the censer lit until the liturgy
is fully done in case some body or blood falls on the floor.
I thought that if anything falls, you light a new piece of coal then burn it.
Which one is right?
I don't wan't to know for being right I just would like to do the right thing.
Does anyone know what the rites of the church says about this?
Hope to get an answer soon,
Cyril
This sunday, I served in the altar and as I have been taught,
I emptied the censer (shoria) during the communion.
An uncle told me that I should keep the censer lit until the liturgy
is fully done in case some body or blood falls on the floor.
I thought that if anything falls, you light a new piece of coal then burn it.
Which one is right?
I don't wan't to know for being right I just would like to do the right thing.
Does anyone know what the rites of the church says about this?
Hope to get an answer soon,
Cyril
Comments
Anybody... :'( :'( :'(
btw, the priest must pray an "absolution" kind of a prayer on something that needs to be burned. and actually, the whole burning idea only happens when it can't be eaten or washed.
of coal and burn the carpet with it?
If there is blood for example that falls on the floor, can't you light up another piece
of coal and burn the carpet with it?
actually, the carpet is supposed to be washed, and the water that it is washed with the priest and the deacon who said the confession should drink it....but of course this is really not done by anyone anymore.
The purpose of the censer is to offer sacrifice.
It has many symbolisms:
1. The bottom bowl--symbolic of the earth and the womb of the Virgin Mary.
2. The burning charcoal--symbolic of the Divine Ember (Christ) Who was in her womb and did not burn it.
3. The incense--the prayers of the saints, and a symbolic instrument of purification
4. The dome--the sky above us; that the prayers ascend even beyond the skies
5. The three outer chains--The Holy Trinity--we are bound to the Triune God--the chains are continuous from earth, the sky (the universe as we know it), and to the handle dome which is Heaven.
6. 12 bells--the Apostles and their mission throughout the world. The ringing of the bells reminds us of their message--the Gospel.
(most censers do not have them--although they should)
7. The Cross at the top of the dome--the Star of Bethlehem that points to the place where the Lord lay. Also the Symbol of Victory that all of creation looks to.
8. The central chain--as it ties with the Heaven (dome) and the Cross on top of the dome--as the unification between Creation and God; Salvation has been achieved; it is a symbolic fulfillment of the Pentecost Hymn (Asomen) where the verse says "He made the two into one; the Heavens and the Earth."
The reason for the charcoal to burn completely and the incense is that all sacrifices must be consumed completely. This is in regard to the command from the Old Testament that nothing should be left behind. All Sacrifices must be consumed in the same day.
On a practical basis, devoid of any spiritual symbolism, it is purely hazardous to put something burning in a pile of combustibles that have the potential for a fire to consume the church.
I often point to the censer as a symbol of the health of a parish. I have yet to enter a church and see a clean censer. It defines the lack of dedication of the deacons. It identifies their detraction from the symbolism that is outlined by the Church. It shows laziness, negligence, lack of respect, and a deleterious spirit. It shows lack of service. If we look at the outlines and precepts of the Old Testament there were points for cleaning the vessels of the altar until they sparkled. There were whole peoples dedicated to these tasks.
How disgusting would it be, if your mother cooked you food in a pan, and used the same pan over and over without washing and cleaning it? It would make the nice thing that was being presented devoid of the sense of love, because it would be bathed in foul material. If the vessels of the altar are for the Royal One, and they look disgustingly dirty (charred and tar covered) then what does it say about Him, and us who are His Servants? It may seem like a small thing, and I know I will get the Kumbaya talk about: "God does not want a clean censer, He wants a clean heart." However, one must realize that one is a symbolic indicator of the other.
The holiest place on the earth is in the Holy of Holies--the Holy Altar. I do not see the decorum there either in conduct, protocol, or in the keeping of that place. The end effect, is indicative of the underlying pathology and disregard, and maybe, just maybe we have to say the terrible words as a consequence of this appearance--'maybe we do not believe in God as much as we say'. 'Our actions point to the contrary.'
In other words, I see this as a symptom of an underlying disease.
I know that this is beyond what you asked, Cyril, but it is a soap box issue for me.
Bring on the "Kumbaya" talk.
I don't mean to be nasty, but I get really upset when something as beautiful in all of its aspects such as a censer can look so bad because of neglect and not caring. Sometimes I just want to take the deacons and give them a pep talk and just wake them up a little bit. I just think there is a little "service sleep" going on, and we need to wake up.
I am a fairly new member, so I don't really understand your expression (Kumbaya, sopa in a box...)
I think it is an inside joke.
Anyways, I completly agree with what you are saying and that is why my church
has (is) implemented a kind of altar cleaning duty to keep that place holy, and accpetable before God.
As you said, I honsetly don't think that on the day of judgement, God will judge you if you cleaned the
censer or not especially, if you didn't know.
Either way, ilovesaintmark, when do you think is the appropriate time to empty the censer?
Is during the communion fine or should it be done after.
I really appreciate your time and efforts,
God bless and Pray for me,
Cyril
Minagir,
I don't mean to be nasty, but I get really upset when something as beautiful in all of its aspects such as a censer can look so bad because of neglect and not caring. Sometimes I just want to take the deacons and give them a pep talk and just wake them up a little bit. I just think there is a little "service sleep" going on, and we need to wake up.
agreed
When it is completely extinguished.
Kumbaya is a little camp fire song. It is used as an expression by idealistic annoyances in order to convey that everything is fine and dandy, everything is happy, and there is no wrong, and that we should just all accept the wrongs of the world because we are one big happy family.
Speaking from a soap box is a political term used to identify when one is sounding off on a topic. In the colonial era and even in parts of Britain, people would take a soap box (literally) stand atop it and mouth off on whatever topic they wanted people to hear about. No one uses soap boxes anymore for that task, but it is an expression to identify that habit or task.
Cyril, you sound like a really thoughtful guy. I wish you well. Learn well. Serve your Master, Who is also our Master, well.
The censer has to be fasting for 9 hours between uses right?
Thank you for your comment, God bless.
So, should I empty the censer during or after the communion?
God bless you,
Cyril
God bless
Lord Have Mercy.
I can't empty it then because we need to use it for the commemorations of the saints/departed.
What?
I can't empty it then because we need to use it for the commemorations of the saints/departed.
hehe....he ilovesaintmark wasn't saying to empty the shorai during that litany rather he is asking us to literally PRAY for the hegumens, priests...etc
That's what I meant. Thank you for clarifying for me. I was saying that particular Litany continuation as a follow-up to JYdeacon's post.
A little slow... right?
God bless, pray for me,
Cyril
i even spoke from one once! a muslim guy got bored and let me use his ladder to preach for a few minutes.
seriously!
I've never seen one before.
u can probably get a soap box from e-bay
;)
so as not to change the thread completely, i am glad the deacon is not supposed to burn the carpet with the coal!
i find all this discussion of deacon's tasks very interesting.
:)