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My friend has left the Coptic Church - What should I do?
Hi,
I'm obviously Coptic. I'm not the best Copt in the world, but i'm just average. I go to Church now for healing, for sanctification, to be close to God and close to Holiness.
I'm sure like many of you here, we have friends from our Church that we've grown up with. Each one has their own struggles in life.
I have one particular friend, she informed me about a month ago that she is no longer Coptic orthodox. She hates our Church because she thinks we are too "denominational" - and hence she goes now to the non-denominationalists (protestants).
Personally, I wouldn't mind. I used to be of the impression that this is none of my business. When she told me, i just listened.
I would be even happy if someone went to these Churches if it improved their relationship with God. But I cannot see that. She's become a real trouble maker.
Her personality isn't peaceful anymore.
If you knew her parents, you'd think they were Santa clause.
This doesn't add up.
I'm lost and have no idea what to do. She's not a child anymore. She's a grown adult. Of course I have prayed for her, but I'm debating whether or not I ought to tell a member of her family to ask about her given this change.
As I said, I personally, would not have an issue with someone being protestant so long as whatever they did added to their character. But it hasn't. She's become a very vulgar person.
What should I do? I feel if I do nothing, I'm not a friend, and if I do something then her family may be upset?
Believe me, the easiest thing is to pray for her. But somehow I feel prayer without action, is a bit odd. Its like seeing a person drown and you tell them "OK.. i'll pray for you" . Shouldn't you at least throw a life-line?
I'm no longer friends with this person, but that's obvious - its only because she's become very destructive. I think its safer to be away. But should I confide this news about her change in religion to her family??
Thanks
I'm obviously Coptic. I'm not the best Copt in the world, but i'm just average. I go to Church now for healing, for sanctification, to be close to God and close to Holiness.
I'm sure like many of you here, we have friends from our Church that we've grown up with. Each one has their own struggles in life.
I have one particular friend, she informed me about a month ago that she is no longer Coptic orthodox. She hates our Church because she thinks we are too "denominational" - and hence she goes now to the non-denominationalists (protestants).
Personally, I wouldn't mind. I used to be of the impression that this is none of my business. When she told me, i just listened.
I would be even happy if someone went to these Churches if it improved their relationship with God. But I cannot see that. She's become a real trouble maker.
Her personality isn't peaceful anymore.
If you knew her parents, you'd think they were Santa clause.
This doesn't add up.
I'm lost and have no idea what to do. She's not a child anymore. She's a grown adult. Of course I have prayed for her, but I'm debating whether or not I ought to tell a member of her family to ask about her given this change.
As I said, I personally, would not have an issue with someone being protestant so long as whatever they did added to their character. But it hasn't. She's become a very vulgar person.
What should I do? I feel if I do nothing, I'm not a friend, and if I do something then her family may be upset?
Believe me, the easiest thing is to pray for her. But somehow I feel prayer without action, is a bit odd. Its like seeing a person drown and you tell them "OK.. i'll pray for you" . Shouldn't you at least throw a life-line?
I'm no longer friends with this person, but that's obvious - its only because she's become very destructive. I think its safer to be away. But should I confide this news about her change in religion to her family??
Thanks
Comments
maybe she is mad (angry) at her family so this is why she is being rebellious.
if her family don't know she doesn't go to an orthodox church any more, maybe they are already too far apart emotionally.
so if either of these is true, which is likely, then telling her family will just make her really mad.
if she is not letting them close to her now, she certainly won't be any closer to them (in my opinion) when they (after u tell them) start telling her she's wrong in what she has done.
usually telling someone they are wrong does not make them suddenly change their mind and follow you.
if she opens up to u about the problem then u r in a position to advise her.
until then, just pray, keep in touch with her and also keep good relations with people in the church who are strong in their faith, so that when she comes to u for help, u have others around to help u to help her.
may God guide u
pray for her.
maybe she is mad (angry) at her family so this is why she is being rebellious.
if her family don't know she doesn't go to an orthodox church any more, maybe they are already too far apart emotionally.
so if either of these is true, which is likely, then telling her family will just make her really mad.
if she is not letting them close to her now, she certainly won't be any closer to them (in my opinion) when they (after u tell them) start telling her she's wrong in what she has done.
usually telling someone they are wrong does not make them suddenly change their mind and follow you.
if she opens up to u about the problem then u r in a position to advise her.
until then, just pray, keep in touch with her and also keep good relations with people in the church who are strong in their faith, so that when she comes to u for help, u have others around to help u to help her.
may God guide u
Hi Mabsoota. Nice to hear from you my old friend. Hope you are well.
Indeed, I'm not sure if her family know at all whether she is still Orthodox or not. But i know her life. I mean, i know her tribulations etc. She hasn't had anything major happen to her except that she can't get married.
I think she's trying to lose weight - and its not working, so she's bitter about being rejected. Going to non-denomination isn't bad (for me) - but I think she's going there for the wrong reasons.
I used to go to non Orthodox Churches simply because there were no Orthodox Churches.
The friends she has as friends are good people. But I'm not at all sure they really see the difference. I believe, deeply that if someone has a problem, the Orthodox Church is where you can solve it the fastest. Indeed, it can be solved elsewhere also - like in the non denominationalists.. but to see her attitude change this way doesn't make me think that she's making a change for the better. Why i'm worried is that if this goes on, her problems won't be solved. She'll be even more bitter.
I think she is not bitter at her family. On the contrary... that part is OK. I think she is bitter about being single. In my opinion.
Also not being able to get married is a huge thing to a girl. Unfortunately sometimes thats all a girl thinks about. It is definitely possible that this is what keeps her from coming to the Coptic church because our church unfortunately isnt just a church. It is also a social gathering for people to just hang out. A lot of talking goes on and who knows maybe someone or something hurt her. she may be attending a church where no one knows anyhting about her and she isn't looked at for being weird and different, married or not married. Pray is #1. After pray, be there for her. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to what to do. He will teach you all things.
Pray for me,
Danny
maybe it isnt her switching churches that has made her this way. What all of us need to do when we see someone in this scenario is do what our Lord would. He wouldnt tell her shes wrong, he wouldnt do anything but show her how much he loves her and how he will always be there for her. In this case you dont want to let go and stop being her friend because shes become troublesome. Later on down the line she will realize a difference in herself and look to you for help because you never gave up.
Also not being able to get married is a huge thing to a girl. Unfortunately sometimes thats all a girl thinks about. It is definitely possible that this is what keeps her from coming to the Coptic church because our church unfortunately isnt just a church. It is also a social gathering for people to just hang out. A lot of talking goes on and who knows maybe someone or something hurt her. she may be attending a church where no one knows anyhting about her and she isn't looked at for being weird and different, married or not married. Pray is #1. After pray, be there for her. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to what to do. He will teach you all things.
Pray for me,
Danny
Hey Danny,
Thanks for your nice response.
May I make it clear just one small point. I'm not at all telling her, nor do I have the intention of telling her that she's wrong. Wrong in what? Everyone has the right to choose their church. I have friends who are catholic, protestant etc.. no way will I tell them they are wrong.
Please understand this situation. its not that simple.
I started my thread by making it clear that for me, the Coptic Church is a Church for the sick. I'm sick. I'm ill. I'm broken and I need to be fixed. Therefore, I go to the Coptic Church to get fixed.
My concern isn't about being right or wrong.
My concern is that she has left a hospital and is continuously ill. She is not at peace. And I feel that as friends, what are we doing if we do not lead each other towards being healed? What are we doing if we are not encouraging each other to walk in Holiness??
Am I going to be judged on that? I feel bad. I feel bad that I see a friend suffering and I just brush it off.
That's all.
Be with her Zoxsasi. Sometimes we have to love those who hate themselves. They need to know there is love out there when they are doing things wrong. Show you support her, not the things she does however. Things like hugs and just being happy but firm well help.
she may not be a peace because of what she is feeling in general. It may be unrelated to what type of church she goes to. also id like to bring your attention to something. Bring Jesus Christ to her instead of trying or thinking about her coming to church. We especially as copts have a tendency to want people to come to Christ and we forget that its the other way around. Bring Jesus to her. She will feel Christ in you when you let him dwell inside you and will be nourished and feel better. As a matter of fact, Christ not only stayed with troubled people and took all the junk they may have given him but he went to them specifically. also try not to see it as leading to holiness. She is your friend and no matter what happens because you love her youll be there for her and help her when she needs your help.
i guess the basic point i want to make is the following:
all people including our own selves have problems and insecurities. The only one who can compensate and fill those gaps is Our Lord. before a person goes to the doctor to get a prescription he needs to feel sick. In the case of most of us humans, we feel sick when we are unhappy, and when wesee the difference between the way we normally are and the way we have become. Therefore you need to show her the way she was by continuing in your friendship. In all steps take Jesus with you and He will really do things for you.
In Love,
Danny
I think Zoxsasi will be representing the church when she visits her friend as her friend knows Zoxsasi belongs to the church (thereby belonging to God as well). Abouna when he comes to visit our family talks about how life is, but at the end he will say ok we will pray now, and we do. The moment we pray and he prays for us is comforting and I know where I'm surpposed to be. It didn't matter that we didn't get into the deepness of the problem. I know what I'm loyal too. Maybe Zoxsasi you could pray with your friend.
Here is a site with a short evangelical blurb, its not from a group of Coptic affiliation and it a bit technical but the idea is on good.
http://www.gettoknowtheoriginal.net/predenominational.html
As one with experience of being without the church, let her experience the sea of chaos that is protestantism. Just be there for her, try not to be confrontational but stand firm in your beliefs. If she believes in truth, she will certainly be back. Leaving the Coptic church would be like leaving a well in the middle of a desert, looking for a bigger and better well. Problem is, there is no other well, only mirages. She will find out soon enough, trust in God, be still and know He knows.
Thank you ALL so much for your care. I loved writing on this thread and getting a response.
Unfortunately, I'm no longer in a position to even ask about her - I erased myself from her life. However, I was wondering if I should tell her family her situation.
Why?
Because ultimately, I agree with Ioannes.
Let's face it.. she's in her mid 30's... and she's in a sea of perdition. If she was say, 25.. i'd be OK.. let her grow up and find her way back home.. but in her mid 30's? We are basically allowing someone to destroy their life.
She hasn't gained anything... she hasn't improved. She's lost. lol
The worst part is that we were all friends together.... and we enjoyed being lost together in our younger days. We had so much stuff to keep us occupied that we didn't need God. She has zillions of friends, lots of attention, a good job etc. But there's something bothering her. Deeply. Its very very deep.
I know.
A person with 2 lovely parents wouldn't give birth to a monster. It doesn't add up.
She's extremely immature spiritually, if not emotionally.
Guys, the question is this: do we tell her FoC, or her family? They don't need to know that I told them, but they may wish to use this info to reach out to her and to try and bring her back to the Orthodox Church... even the Catholic would be good.
If I didn't believe that Christ could make you whole again, i wouldn't care. But she's broken.
Its like humpty dumpty: all the king's horses and all the king's men, couldn't put this girl together again.
You know, I was reading about Quiet Time in the Orthodox Church. I think this is really good. She needs some quiet time to see what's bothering her and just deal with it.
Oh btw: EXCELLENT LINK!!!! I loved it. I will be using this!
I think she is trying to be herself and the problem was she couldn't be herself and that is why she has chosen a church that gives her the freedom. I don't think telling her parents will help or her FOC. Her parents might be great people but have they given her the freedom of forgiveness? The thing that lets you make mistakes in your life and learn from them. That's why I thought you should try and be a bit closer to her because being away would feel like judgement with no freedom.
Also I find it upsetting that you are no longer friends. Unless you know her very well and think that a 'tough love' strategy would help her to think more about her choices, it is not nice to leave your friend at a time when she may need you the most.
We need to look at the world with an open mind. Being orthodox christian is not about a systematic approach where people are on your team or else they are the enemy. If you think about what you said, imagine if you made a decision and everyone around you had only one mission: to tell you that you are wrong and make you do what they think is right. This may only make it worse as your friend will resist and disagree with you more.
Also, you said your friend has become destructive...in what way?
And was there a particular incident in church that influenced her decision? There were many times when I was put off going to church because of certain members of the congregations and it took time for my anger and hurt to resolve so that I could go back.
Sorry to repeat myself, but I still don't understand why you are not friends anymore?
To me, it sounds like a situation where a friend commits a crime and goes to jail so you stop communicating with her because she is a bad person. Truth is, to me, your friend sounds like someone who is just looking for God.
And what is the 'metaphor' behind what you said about healing/sickness? The relationship with God is beyond churches, it is spiritual. If your friend is troubled, she needs medicine. The medicine is Jesus. Which hospital she gets the medicine from, is not relevant.