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Justified by Faith , Works , Both , Something else?
Romans 4:1-5 (King James Version)
Romans 4
1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
From
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 4:1-5;&version=9;
There are many other verses in the bible I think that support the belief that one may once have accepted Jesus Christ as their LORD and repented of their sins.. but were not saved? at the end...
But when I read from this part of the bible? It seemed to me like one is saved even if they dont end up doing works?
Pray for me against this heresy?
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Does this mean the person only does works because he should do ito show God he/she is thankful and is expected from him/her? / does it mean Christ will reward the worker in heaven but by faith the person is saved through grace which heaven is itself a reward? or what does this verse mean?
This part of romans could just mean abraham was not justified because he was circumcised... but I think it may mean more than that or something different..
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
FROM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ro 4:1-12;&version=9;
Also what does verse 11 mean?
Pray for me against this heresy..
Romans 4
1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
From
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 4:1-5;&version=9;
There are many other verses in the bible I think that support the belief that one may once have accepted Jesus Christ as their LORD and repented of their sins.. but were not saved? at the end...
But when I read from this part of the bible? It seemed to me like one is saved even if they dont end up doing works?
Pray for me against this heresy?
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Does this mean the person only does works because he should do ito show God he/she is thankful and is expected from him/her? / does it mean Christ will reward the worker in heaven but by faith the person is saved through grace which heaven is itself a reward? or what does this verse mean?
This part of romans could just mean abraham was not justified because he was circumcised... but I think it may mean more than that or something different..
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
FROM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ro 4:1-12;&version=9;
Also what does verse 11 mean?
Pray for me against this heresy..
Comments
What do you think?
I should know this by now I think..
I hope I wrote things correctly..
I hope I got my thoughts across as I wanted to ..
So maybe my last post is not right..
Read His Holiness Pope Shenouda III's book Salvation in the Orthodox Concept; he examines all the verses, including that of Romans, which relate to works and faith and their relationship.
You should find this book at any Coptic Church bookstore.