Can someone explain? this to me?

mikeforjesus

"If you wish to be delivered from shameful passions, do not behave with anyone familiarly, especially with those toward whom your heart is inclined by a lustful passion; through this you will be delivered also from vainglory. For in vainglory is involved the pleasing of men, in the pleasing of men is involved familiarity of behavior, and familiarity of behavior is the mother of all passions. "Saints Barsanuphius and John: Guidance Toward Spiritual Life," trans. by Fr. Seraphim Rose, (Platina, California: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1990"

From

http://www.orthodox.net/gleanings/vainglory.html

And this is a sad truth to me I think..


"The sun shines on all alike, and vainglory beams on all activities. For instance, I am vainglorious when I fast; and when I relax the fast in order to be unnoticed, I am again vainglorious over my prudence. When well-dressed I am quite overcome by vainglory, and when I put on poor clothes I am vainglorious again. When I talk I am defeated, and when I am silent I am again defeated by it. However I throw this prickly-pear, a spike stands upright. St. John Climacus, "The Ladder of Divine Ascent," (Boston: Holy Transfiguration Monastery, 1978), STEP 22: On the Many Forms of Vainglory"

From

http://www.orthodox.net/gleanings/vainglory.html

Believer in God

Wow! These are definitely tough passages to decipher. Nice choices mikeforJesus. forgive me if my insight to these passages are inaccurate but I will try my best. The first passage seems to tell you that one should not attempt to "show off" in front of those which he/she loves. This "showing off" is what leads you away from humility and is used only to please others, which is wrong. One who tries to become glorious only tries to appear glorious in front of man only. Those who try to please men only try to do that through familiarity of behavior, which includes the obvious ways of pleasing others, which are not truly from the heart and soul. An example of this would be with fasting for instance where one wants to appear to be fasting in front of everybody else, which is a "familiar" behavior and a familiar way to show off. This is wrong because that person is only fasting to be seen as a good person in front of man and not in front of God. This all leads to shameful passions. Again, as the last phrase of that passage states, a person who tries to be seen as a good person in front of everybody else is a passion that is pursued by people and it is probably worse then lustful passions, etc.

As for the last passage, St. John Climacus states that through everything we do, in front of man, leads to inhumility. St. John Climacus gives us examples of these things, like when a person loses inhumility when people know that he is fasting, because they give him glory and honor for that, that is only due to God, which leads to inhumility. When he stops the fast so that he may not be vainglorious in his fast he becomes a hypocrite and is not the person who God sees him as. When he puts on good clothes it is the same thing. When he puts on bad clothes he once again is seen as glorious and honorable in front of people and, again loses his humility. When he talks it could lead him to saying something he does not want to say which could lead him to inhumility and revealing something about himself which could get him into trouble or make him be seen as such a holy man. When he is silent it could cause disobedience because if someone asks him to do something that involves speaking or when somebody asks him a question he can't answer. When he uses the analogy about the prickly pear he is basically saying that whatever he does it will still result in vanglory and inhumility.

Please pray for me and forgive me if I mislead or misguided you.

Please pray for me always,
Believer in God

mikeforjesus

thankyou for your reply...

but can you please explain to me more about how you can also I think be defeated by vain glory by your silence

... Is it bad not to speak when someone asks you to? I think some monks choose not to... and do you think you can fall by vain glory because you dont know how to answer a question?

Unknown

I really like these quotes a lot mikeforjesus, thanks for sharing them.. the first one basically says if you tend to favor or fancy someone the best thing you should do is avoid them. Not in a bad way but just for the sake of not falling into sin. He says because if you do stay around them, you're going to have a lot of 'lustful passions' Also, by staying away from them you save yourself from vain glory because if at anytime you think your 'pleasing' the person whom your attention is directed- you're going to be full of yourself... The second quote is about vain glory. In his book, diabolic wars, Pope Shenouda talk about the devil of vain glory saying that he is like a round ball that can swift in any direction. For example, If Pope Shenouda says: If you sit at a table (while fasting) and do not eat, he says to you, "I admire your ascetism. You do not eat like all the others." However if you eat like the others, he says to you, "Thus do the saints, they pretend to eat while they are in fact fasting so as to hide their virtues."
If you talk, he says, "it is the voice of wisdom which gaims the admiration of those who hear you..." And if you keep silent, he says, "Silence is the virtue of the saints like St. Arsanius" Pope Shenouda continues his explaination on this subject and a way to deal with it by using an example of Saint John the Short: "An example of this is St. John the Small who was praised by the devils for the virtures he had attained so that all who were in the hermitage used to ask him for a word of benefit. But St. John used to answer them, "Who am I the poor? have I attained what St. Anthony or Anba Bemwa have attained? I am all in sin." And when they said to him "indeed you are a sinner and will perish" he answered, "But where are God'd love and mercy?" So, the devils used to say to him, "You puzzle us. If we lift you up, you humble youself, and if we humble you, you lift up yourself"...Thus, be you in your dealing with the devils."

mg

dear mike4jesus
i would like to just point out that these things are intended for monks
that is, people who are of a very high spiritual nature
we as humble members of the world will struggle very much if we try to follow these teachings to the letter from the word go
a monk becomes a monk through great struggle, so to live as these saints and holy monks describe would be very difficult
especially for a young adult or teenager

so when you read these things, take them on a simple nature,
like vain glory, try not to be full of pride, but take pride in your achievements, like excelling in an exam or winning a soccer game

your brother in Christ
mg

Believer in God

[quote author=mikeforjesus link=board=1;threadid=3011;start=0#msg45385 date=1136701256]
thankyou for your reply...

but can you please explain to me more about how you can also I think be defeated by vain glory by your silence

... Is it bad not to speak when someone asks you to? I think some monks choose not to... and do you think you can fall by vain glory because you dont know how to answer a question?



To answer your question, mikeforJesus, sorry if I did not make myself clear the first time, but I guess it is sort of like what I meant when I mentioned vainglory while one fasts. When a person appears to somebody as silent people look to this person as if they are truly holy, which takes away their humility.

Maybe that answers your question a little bit better but please don't hesitate to ask me about anything else of my opinion. Please forgive me always and I am here for all of you. Ena abd el Messih. Please forgive me for my inhumility.

Please pray for me always,
Believer in God

JesusisKingofKings

Well I am silent alot I think.. and I dont like when people think im stupid and dumb because of it (if thats what they think)... but maybe thats better than them thinking im holy..

But I think alot of people already do think I am.. and I may think so too... I really dont think I think im one of the worst sinners anymore.