URIM

JesusisKingofKings

What is the urim? how was it used to make a decision if it was?

Do you think receiving spiritual illumination by looking steadfastly at the urim (if thats what you do and receive) is like looking steadfastly at coptic icons to receive spiritual illumination (if thats what you do and receive) ?

mazza

hey, i did some research and found this:

'Urim and Thummim (in Hebrew Urim VeTumim, אורים ותמים, Tiberian Hebrew ʾÛrîm wəṮummîm, Standard Hebrew אורים ותומים Urim vəTummim; Arabic ÇæÑíã æÊãíã Ūrīm waṮummīm) — typically translated as "lights and perfections" or "revelation and truth" — were a divination medium or process used by ancient Hebrews (usually Israelites) in revealing the will of God on a contested point of view or other problem. Also used to translate ancient manuscripts.'

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim

theres heaps more info on it

Safaa

Why on earth this thread is under " Faith issue. "!!!!!!!

Unknown

What is the urim? how was it used to make a decision if it was?

It was a means of divination in the form of casting by lots (Deuteronomy 33:8-10 is an example). Divination is simply a means by which one can "supernaturally" determine the will of God; prophecy is another form. Such abilities were only given to say high priests, or the Apostles (in the book of Acts when they chose the Apostle who would replace Judas). The election of a Patriarch may be considered a form of urim and thummim in the New Testament Church.

Do you think receiving spiritual illumination by looking steadfastly at the urim (if thats what you do and receive) is like looking steadfastly at coptic icons to receive spiritual illumination (if thats what you do and receive) ?

Your question seems quite absurd to me in light of the above stipulated understanding of urim. What are you referring to exactly when you employ the word in the above question? I have never heard of a "personal urim"....

JesusisKingofKings

if you go to dictionary.com and try to find the meaning of urim from there you might know...
:)

Unknown

Sorry, but dictionary.com is not an official source of Orthodox Church doctrine and praxis ;)

The definition given at dictionary.com states that the urim is: "part or decoration of the breastplate of the high priest among the ancient Jews, by which Jehovah revealed his will on certain occasions. Its nature has been the subject of conflicting conjectures."

Though there is nothing dogmatic about how we understand the Urim, I believe casting lots is the more plausible Biblical answer. Either way, I still don't understand the question you ask. You speak of staring at a urim...Do you have the decoration of a breastplate of a high priest in your home that you plan to stare at? ???

As I said, there is no such thing as a personal urim. We discern the will of God by prayer, fasting, partaking of the sacraments, and consulting our spiritual advisers. Discerning God's will through particular methods of divination such as urim were simply something peculiar to High priests in the days of the Old Testament, the Apostles in electing the replacement Apostle, and the present day manner of electing the Patriarch.