Ok... so I am a Christian but sometimes I think that is just because my parents are. I mean I personally cannot get myself to agree or to see the sense of some of the things written in the Bible.
For example the Bible seems to emphasise over and over again that a woman should be submissive to a man/her husband. In Timothy 2: 12 (sorry bad with references so hope this is right):
“I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men. She is to keep silent.”
Why are women seen as inferior and why should men have authority? I don't think women should be the ones with total authority either but rather that no one should.
Another thing I can't believe in is the inherited sin (which might be some people's justification for the above). Why should all women suffer for the supposed mistake of one. And as Eve was deceived so was Adam.... because at the end of the day we have free will so if someone says 'jump off the cliff' we are either gonna do it or not. Adam chose to take the apple so why is it that only women are being 'punished' for it.
Furthermore, we are told that all those who do not believe in Christ will perish. What about those virtuous people who have led a good life but are of a different faith? Should they perish or go to hell when substantially they have done nothing wrong?
So going back to my first point, am I really a Christian when I find myself doubting and disagreeing with so many things?
Hope someone is up for discussing this further :)
Andrea
Comments
But you have to remember something, we have been freed from this curse and from the pangs of death. We still may suffer to an extent on earth but the reward we gain is great. We gained salvation through the cross and we have no need to despair in our sufferings anylonger because only sin leads to death and if we repent and confess we are renewed and given a chance again to do what is right. All we can hope for is that we depart without blemish and hope for God's mercy.
Anyone who doesn't believe in Christ will Perish because that is what Christ Himself said. Christ is God, so that means He cannot be wrong in what He said. We are told to run our race and not worry about others. Leave them for God to Judge, because of course He is the Just Judge. Whether or not they go to Heaven or Hell is not up to anyone except for God, so all you can do is pray for them and hope they find the right path and can be saved.
If you are having extreme doubts then I suggest you go talk to your FOC and see what he tells you, he won't lead you wrong.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
You can easily see this in a family. A family can't stand without both. Other differences that might appear are mostly cultural affects. But no where in our wedding ceremony rite for example we say that one have more authority then the other.
By most favorite verse to summarize what I’ve just said is:
1 Corinthians 7:4:
The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
I think the same St. Paul who wrote the verse you included above wrote this to. This is a misunderstanding many get with the “inherited sin” phrase. Let explain this first. WE, as sons of Adam & Eve, inherit“the consequence of the sin. The sin here referring to the original sin they have committed.
We don’t inherit the sin as in we will all do the same mistake, but we inherit what comes out of the sin. The sin brought death to the world. The door of Hades was opened and Paradise closed. Now what happens for us, we go straight to Hades. Just for the fact that we don’t have freewill in that concept. You’ll tell me then where is God’s freewill to us, I’ll have to say that understanding “freewill” to be a FULL FREEDOM concept, is wrong. Why….because in any case today in our daily lives, your freewill is limited in someway. So in living on earth after Adam & Eve mistake, our freewill was to stay with God and wait for the Messiah to come save you. If you are on earth, save from what’s there and open Paradise, and in afterlife, open Hades and take you from there to the true Paradise of His.
NOW, about Eve and punishment. First, some of the church father say that Adam ate from the fruit to save Eve. Adam knew that God would punish her and not him for what she did, eating the fruit because after all, she was the one who was tricked into eating the fruit. So by also being part of the committed sin, God would ease the punishment on both rather then a harsh one on Eve, which by the Adam loved and kept as a “helper”
Second, both were punished:
Genesis 3:
16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."
Who said only women had to be punished. If you ask me, I’ll tell you that women got it easy comparing to what Adam have to do all of his life. Look at the verse above…..now women who choose to do men’s duties…..sure, go do what ever you want, if you want to SUFFER more.
This is also a common question amongst people, “who’ll go to heaven.”
Literally speaking, Christ said:
John 3:5:
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Mark 16:16-18:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
The words are clear. But it’s also said in the Holy Bible that God will judge us according to what we know. If people don’t know about Christ, how can they be judged according to the laws of Christ.
This is what we know, but the final call is not ours to say but God’s. So don’t worry about this, just worry about your own salvation in Christ. Not everyone who is Christian will be saved, but only those who truly know Christ. The best example is the parable of the 10 virgins. The fact that they are virgins shows how they are righteous and of God; but the five that didn't have the oil (i.e. works and faith and many concept of Jesus), didn’t get them to heaven, with Jesus.
welcome Andrea, I took the blessing, by reading your question... so let us thank God! you take Christianity for granted, like I do... so let us grow spiritually so that we may be close to Christ and we will honor and respect Christianity in the right manner... pray, do matanyas, and fast... start going to church, and the Holy Spirit will start filling you with the knowledge, and will make you see things clearly! The bible does seem sexist at times...
Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.
Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”
but hold on how is it so sexist if the Bible is asking everyone to submit to everyone! learn to be humble and lowly in heart!
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God...For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God.
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
So now through these verses, we see that there is equality between the both… just different roles! And the role of the woman consists of following the man… just because of him being the stronger sex! You can disagree about that all you want! But its true… think about it a little farther, and be open minded with me! the bible tells the man to toil and to work, now why would the bible ask man to do that?! believe it or not the man is stronger than woman... most men that is! a woman by anatomy is weaker, thus she will do the small chores, yet the man will toil the ground and sweat everyday to make sure he will have sufficient source of food for the wife to take care of! and that was not only the bible that said that, but that is how it was through the world, bible or no bible! Man and woman are both suffering from that! The bible does not say, “ and God cursed woman” but rather the bible says:
So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“ Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
I don’t know about you but I think out of the three Adam got the most heat! Now God’s wisdom is beyond any wisdom… he put the woman to be under rule of the man, who gathers from the ground to feed her, or she being weaker could have been attacked or hurt by the atmosphere around filled with animals and dangers! So even though they just did wrong, and Eve is the one that led him to sin, but God’s imaginable love is amazing because He is still looking out for her well being! God is amazing beyond words. But back to your question God punished everyone not only the woman!
Now you know the pope is asked of the blood of the people in the faith… the bishop of his diocese and the priest of his parish, the Sunday school teacher of his class… so if one falls and goes to hell, God will ask these people about the person in hell... and also the Lord will ask for the blood of his children from the mother… and the mother and the children from the father! So if you ask me that a big burden!
God is wise believe me! that You might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when You are judged. Worry about Andrea and Andrea’s salvation alone… the rest is up to God’s wisdom… “keep your attention on yourself; these things are according to the judgment of God, and it is not to your advantage to know anything about them.”
The devil, is very strong… he fights and fights and fights! Struggle and God will reward you… believe me God’s love is amazing… we don’t deserve it at all for without Him we are nothing at all! Without Him we are as a child in middle of a freeway just waiting to be hit the hit of death… but he loves us so much! Thank God at all times… for how many times did we not thank God?! Let us thank Him in all that we do…
Back to you question are you a Christian? if you are baptized then yes you are… doubts are from the devil they come to all, to even the pope… and the highest levels of spirituality! The devil will not cease putting thoughts and doubts until the time of death, and a little after until you reach Heaven! Just learn how to overcome the devil! Pray, fast, do matanyas, read the bible, confess, and get spiritual guidance, and God will reward….
I took the blessing, thank God!
We all (men and women) inherit the fallen nature with was caused by the sin of Adam and Eve (they both sinned), but remember that we can also all be saved by the grace of God. He came and died on the cross for all humans (men and women) to be saved...
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
We are all (men and women) created in the image of God, meaning we all have an eternal spirit and we all were designed for good works...
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
We are all (men and women) members in the Church, the Body of Christ, but with different roles and if every member did their role well they'd be doing God's will, but if every member wanted to do the other member's role, then there wouldn't be unity and peace.
4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.
Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
As I said before, since we were all made in the image of God, and since we all receive the same Holy Spirit when we get baptized, thus the differences between men and women are in their appearance and their service, but not in the love of Christ for them or in the strength of the Spirit within them. Being male or female will neither help nor hinder someone from becoming close to God and from living a virtuous life. The following verse, especially the underlined part, is the greatest proof of the fact that in Christianity race, social status and sex don't matter, it's the spirit that matters, the person's heart.
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
One last thing, if Christianity would truly see women as inferior, would we then exhalt St. Mary (a woman) above all humans and praise her so much??? Would we call St. Mary the pride of our kind???
I think we should all be thankful that we can go to church and partake of the Holy Mysteries and be members of the Body of Christ. We should be grateful and happy that we have a loving, caring, forgiving, merciful, just Father... We should rejoice in the fact that we're Christians, followers of Christ, and try to live up to this great honour
God Bless
Please pray for me