FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
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If you live in any free democracy, please complain if you see something wrong. I just noticed something really interesting:
Two celebrities in the UK made a phone call that turned out to be a sick joke. Now, a few people complained. Not many, only a few. They thought (the celebrities) what they were doing was funny. But, because of this few people, 27,000 people also complained. This complaint worked its way up to government who insisted that moral standards should be upheld in entertainment.
One celebrity quit his job and apologised unreservedly, and the other just apologised. But, none of this would have happened if people didnt complain.
I think we see a lot of bad things, whether at school, Uni, work or even in our own communities. I think those who speak out 1st about something being wrong or offensive are not only brave, but pioneers for a better life for everyone.
(( Im sorry if this is not the right section for this comment))
Comments
And here's the effects of what standing up to immorality and injustive can do! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7698417.stm
Matthew
A few points come to mind: How many times have i been shocked at something and have done nothing about it?
I think we forget, coming from the middle east, how powerful we are. We are raised in an atmosphere where we are taught to respect our elders, and be obedient to them, yet this idea somehow dilutes our ability to criticise them and speak out openly if they have done something wrong.
For example, at school, some teacher would swear (use bad words) to make himself popular with the students. I didnt think of complaining because he was a teacher.
I think we forget that in a free democracy, your voice or complaint is just as valuable as anyone else's.
I think also that God will judge us at how much we've been silent on witnessing bad things happen and having done nothing about them.
As much as you would use your "freedom" to complain, other would also do so by either agreeing or disagreeing.....so it all depends on what are you complaining about.
Only people who are effected would voice and say their opinion, not meaning that they always will agree with the complain.
The story you guys are talking about, the "prank", effects many people of very various personalities and beliefs. but they had something in common that all, was disturbed.
That's strange, abouna was just telling us that in our society we are attacked by vulgar behaviour and we should not be quiet about it. I am guilty of just being quiet about it (most of the time), so I just realised that actually complaining about something you see or hear that is wrong, or offensive has some positive impact - especially in a western democracy.
Is it just me, or is using the term "worthless" for someone's thread or question/comment a very degrading and humiliating thing to read? Is there a problem with just ignoring it?
Is it just me, or is using the term "worthless" for someone's thread or question/comment a very degrading and humiliating thing to read? Is there a problem with just ignoring it?
i don't think you understand what "very degrading and humiliating" is really is from previous experience together. so me calling this "worthless" not directly referring to you, if nothing!!!
I have something to say: THis reminds me of the silent monk. ;D ;D
He was so silent. he never said his thought outloud, or ever complained. He kept to himself and God rewarded him greatly. ::) Yes, we should express our freedom by complaining as u wish. But to an extent. You want to keep your dignity, accept everything as it is and go on=)) :D :) ;)
+mahraeel+
In our coptic culture we are often not encouraged to speak up in public even when we have a valid point to make but sometimes we should. I totally agree being passive in situations that are completely against Gods teachings is a sin. We need to stand up for whats right even if we are in the minority.
This is NOT a worthless thread. You are free to state your opinion but please do not be disrespectful. There is a good point that the original poster is trying to make and maybe someone might benefit from it.
In our coptic culture we are often not encouraged to speak up in public even when we have a valid point to make but sometimes we should. I totally agree being passive in situations that are completely against Gods teachings is a sin. We need to stand up for whats right even if we are in the minority.
You know, the point I was trying to get across was - this radio conversation would have been something I'd have listened to in the car by accident. I'd have felt very offended and have done nothing about it. But to think that by complaining, it could increase moral standards in terms of advertising.. this is news for me, and hence I wanted to share that knowledge. That's all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7700816.stm
The highest paid presenter on the BBC has now been suspended. By complaining, the following has been achieved:
* Young people listening to this broadcast will now know that such behaviour will not be tolerated
* They will realise that there are people out there that do not share their sense of humour.
* They may begin to realise that such humour may be offensive and not everything is "funny"
* This may impact indirectly their behaviour, and help them to grow with better moral standards...
All this happened from someone bothering to complain.
there is no need for fighting... :P..in my opinion it is not worthless it is actually a good topic.
I have something to say: THis reminds me of the silent monk. ;D ;D
He was so silent. he never said his thought outloud, or ever complained. He kept to himself and God rewarded him greatly. ::) Yes, we should express our freedom by complaining as u wish. But to an extent. You want to keep your dignity, accept everything as it is and go on=)) :D :) ;)
+mahraeel+
I agree, We should not lay over and just get pushed around no I'm not sayin that at all. But i think we need to know when to complain and when not to complain. If you truley feel that by complaining then by all means go ahead, more power to you. But I agree with mahreal, the gretter reward is in taking whatever is given you and just staying silent.
[quote author=mahraeel link=topic=7286.msg96537#msg96537 date=1225398532]
there is no need for fighting... :P..in my opinion it is not worthless it is actually a good topic.
I have something to say: THis reminds me of the silent monk. ;D ;D
He was so silent. he never said his thought outloud, or ever complained. He kept to himself and God rewarded him greatly. ::) Yes, we should express our freedom by complaining as u wish. But to an extent. You want to keep your dignity, accept everything as it is and go on=)) :D :) ;)
+mahraeel+
I agree, We should not lay over and just get pushed around no I'm not sayin that at all. But i think we need to know when to complain and when not to complain. If you truley feel that by complaining then by all means go ahead, more power to you. But I agree with mahreal, the gretter reward is in taking whatever is given you and just staying silent.
Im so sorry, I really disagree with the story about the silent monk here.
I feel we are in a moral decline because we've just "kept silent" like this monk. Complaining in such issues has led to a really good blow for ultra-liberalists who delight in the smallest opportunities at pushing the boundaries of descency and getting away with it.
You know, in France, its a criminal offence to see something wrong and do nothing about it. If you do, you are liable for prosecution. Therefore, the story of this monk has no weighting in this discussion.
(In my honest opinion)
I'm really trying to draw on real life problems with Christian answers, not just romantic stories that are so estranged from our daily lives that they are only good for bedtime stories, and share no commonality with our lives whatsoever.
The entire idea of being close to a saint is that we see how they achieved a life of holiness in an environment that is similar to ours. A monk does not live in a city, nor has a radio with obscene language. He is not exposed to schools in the UK where pupils and their students consistently swear and use bad language. Does this monk live in a neighbourhood where rape is common?? Would he keep silent then!?
Does this monk live in a society where calling a girl a "prostitute" for a joke is considered funny??? Does he?? And your answer is to be silent about it??? The 30,000 people who complained seem more virtuous than this monk. I'm so sorry - but that's how I feel.
Wow you feel very strongly about this, i see where you are coming from, while doing what the monk is not practical i think it still holds value to those who don't live in the desert. I agree that if you see something wrong happening you should take action and stop it if you can, but i mean if its an action thats happening, ie a fight, someone getting hurt stuff like that. But if its something like that thats heard over the radio, i dont think you complaining will mean much, you might have gotten them to appologize but did they mean it? All you did was shut them up for now, but eventually they will go backto what they did before or just be put on like XM radio where it isn't as public(at least in the US). If you feel that you will really make a difference then yes, by all means complain, make the difference, be the hero/heroin. But if you are just gonna complain for the sake of it, then i must disagree with you and it is better to keep silent then to nit pick.
The effect of all these complaints has been much more than just shutting up those 2. There's a been a whole enquiry now in the UK as to how broadcasts are to be regulated in future and what standards of programming should be allowed. To be quite honest, I never expected such a massive uproar in response to the show. It really fills me with hope that the name of God is still being upheld, even in a liberal society as the UK.
Matthew
+mahraeel+
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=7286.msg96557#msg96557 date=1225405416]
Wow you feel very strongly about this, i see where you are coming from, while doing what the monk is not practical i think it still holds value to those who don't live in the desert. I agree that if you see something wrong happening you should take action and stop it if you can, but i mean if its an action thats happening, ie a fight, someone getting hurt stuff like that. But if its something like that thats heard over the radio, i dont think you complaining will mean much, you might have gotten them to appologize but did they mean it? All you did was shut them up for now, but eventually they will go backto what they did before or just be put on like XM radio where it isn't as public(at least in the US). If you feel that you will really make a difference then yes, by all means complain, make the difference, be the hero/heroin. But if you are just gonna complain for the sake of it, then i must disagree with you and it is better to keep silent then to nit pick.
The effect of all these complaints has been much more than just shutting up those 2. There's a been a whole enquiry now in the UK as to how broadcasts are to be regulated in future and what standards of programming should be allowed. To be quite honest, I never expected such a massive uproar in response to the show. It really fills me with hope that the name of God is still being upheld, even in a liberal society as the UK.
Matthew
Matthew, this is precisely my point. The complaint took 30 seconds to make, its anonymous and the return of investment for what it brought was HUGE.
JY, yes, I feel strongly about this because I care. I care to make this world a better place, and for me, better means where we live in respect for each other and that adds to everyone's quality of life.
The type of complaining I'm talking about is PRECISELY THIS!! MEDIA STANDARDS. You can complain. And you should. ITV/Channel-4/BBC-2 in some occassions have all lowered the mark on what is deemed tasteful broadcasting over the last 30 years. In France, its not so bad; but the problem is with advertising in France, not with national broadcasting standards.
The fact that several senior figures in the BBC have resigned over this, and the debate went to the national level and in fact was on the front page of every single newspaper in the UK (EVERY SINGLE NEWSPAPER!!!!) will have a long lasting impact in the minds of young minds who are still learning and trying to understand where the boundaries are between what is deemed "respectful" and what is "tasteless" behavior. Our society has taught them already that if you call a girl a prostitute for a laugh and humilate her on national radio, and she cannot take it, she doesn't have a sense of humour. Its gone beyond this.
And who is to credit for all this?????????
THOSE THAT COMPLAINED!!!!!!!!!!!
If you sit silently watching/listening to something wrong and do nothing about it, the problem comes back at you one day. You'd have been a precursor to the development of a tragic life filled with nothing but sick jokes and lack of respect for the dignity of life.
Those that think this topic is worthless, why don't they keep silent like the silent monk???
But if you are just gonna complain for the sake of it, then i must disagree with you and it is better to keep silent then to nit pick.
JY, if you have a son that's growing up and you've complained to him that he always crosses the street without looking or doesn't do his homework, would you stop complaining after say 3 years? Would you say to yourself "well, I've told him 1000's of times, and he doesn't listen, so I'll stop now".
The entire point of all this JY is that people in a free democracy feel that complaining will achieve nothing.
There's nothing called "complain for the sake of complaining" - people complain for a reason, and its because they care!!! When you stop caring, you stop complaining.
JY, nothing - NOTHING, influences more than TV and Radio - and thanks to these two things, we have allowed filth, profanity, guile, idol gossip to enter in our homes.
Before you all complain and think that complaining does nothing, please look here:
http://www.moralityinmedia.org/
I am a member of this organisation, and frankly, I URGE YOU to also join. What they are doing has more impact on decency standards than anything else.
It is a commandment to love one-another as ourselves. Those that complained loved this woman, who was called a prostitute as a joke, as themselves. We can say to ourselves "Well, she doesn't concern me" or "I don't know her, so its none of my business". But - actually, IT IS YOUR BUSINESS. You are your brother's keeper.
Mina, MIM (morality in media.org) have a budget and weighting in society that is quite substantial. Please don't go and email them telling them that what they are doing is "worthless". At least look at how much donations they receive a year before you do that.
Proverb
Also another proverb
"Do not rebuke a scoffer lest he hate you. Rebuke a wise man and he will love you"
As long as they are not swine then I think it is our duty to be a light in the world..we cannot assume they are swine(only if we have good evidence that they are) but if we have good reason to think it would be a bad idea then we must refrain.
Jesus did say "Blessed are you when men revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you for the Son of Mans sake"
Is what you are suggesting .. what we should do to get persecuted.. or is there something else? I am not saying it isn't.
Ofcourse we are told to look not at others sins as much as our own. When we remove the speck in our brothers eye will we not remove the log from our own eye? are we also faithful to His commandments? If we really examined ourselves honestly and believe we are then we should try to help others I think.
Daniel 12
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
NKJV
Im not suggesting to complain at anything and everything, but if you are watching a TV program during midday, and let's say for example, a sexually explicit image appears for a second, you can complain about it. The amazing thing is that if others also complained, you'd get either the program banned or tighter controls on broadcasting that would help augment moral standards within the media.
Using all these biblical references is just rhetorical philosophy that gives the impression you are searching in finding ways of not doing anything about matters that concern your values.
Qt well done, you've convinced me, i now know where you are coming from and I agree
Thanks JY. This world is going to be everything we do to it (or do not do to it). It will be the product of our ability to have used our talents to shape it in a positive way. Whatever we do, or do not do, it will result in a world in which our kids will have to live in.
Do you have kids?
I can tell you that if you are a sunday school teacher and u see the children under your care as your own brothers and sisters, you would NEVER have found this thread worthless.