Hello,
In terms of just understanding where the Orthodox Church stands, what is our position with respect to Groups such as Jews For Jesus - these are jewish people (as far as I know) that believe that Jesus Christ IS the Messiah.
Of course that literally makes them Christian, but they do not see themselves as "Christian" but as "completed Jews" because they feel the jewish traditions that they were raised with are extremely relevant in their Christian belief.
Of course it is good news for people like Saint Paul who was saddened by the fact that the Gentiles believed, yet God's own people did not acknowledge Him.
But, wouldn't that make these people just as Orthodox as us? What exactly divides them from us dogmatically or theologically??
Many thanks
Comments
Hello,
In terms of just understanding where the Orthodox Church stands, what is our position with respect to Groups such as Jews For Jesus - these are jewish people (as far as I know) that believe that Jesus Christ IS the Messiah.
Of course that literally makes them Christian, but they do not see themselves as "Christian" but as "completed Jews" because they feel the jewish traditions that they were raised with are extremely relevant in their Christian belief.
Of course it is good news for people like Saint Paul who was saddened by the fact that the Gentiles believed, yet God's own people did not acknowledge Him.
But, wouldn't that make these people just as Orthodox as us? What exactly divides them from us dogmatically or theologically??
Many thanks
i don't see how you can refer to them as Christians!!! our belief is based on Jesus Christ and many things with Him. They do not believe that....simple enough to define them not Christians.
They believe that Christ IS the Son of God who came to die for us, to give us salvation.
They do not see the need to call themselves Christians ONLY because they feel that there is no need - being Jewish and believing in Christ is exactly the route that was chosen for them by God.. they've taken that route (like Saint Paul).
Could you please be politer when you speak... u seem kind of aggressive, and I think my question is very valid. I'm in no way saying in anything bad about the Church... I'm just asking about this.
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/about/statementoffaith
so like all Christian groups, we should be involved in dialgue with them when possible, so that we can learn from each other.
as far as i know there aren't any orthodox christian groups currently working at promoting greater dialogue with jews, so feel free to sow the seeds where no-one else is working!
hi, i've met some of these lovely people, they are active in places like israel (where they are persecuted by religious jews) and among jewish groups elsewhere. they try to keep their Christian faith culturally relevant to jews from a religious jewish background and they are basically protestants. some of them are active in promoting closer fellowship with palestinian and arabic Christians, others are more supportive of the current state of israel and it's policies.
so like all Christian groups, we should be involved in dialgue with them when possible, so that we can learn from each other.
as far as i know there aren't any orthodox christian groups currently working at promoting greater dialogue with jews, so feel free to sow the seeds where no-one else is working!
I don't think we can separate our faith and spiritual traditions in the Orthodox Liturgy from Jewish traditions. The philosophy or agenda of Jews for Jesus seems to be that they feel the need to explain to Christians why Christ came to save us and the importance of Holy Communion as the Ultimate Passover. They do not want to be seen as Christians as it takes away from them their birth right as the chosen people of God - and the people who actually accepted Him rather than rejected Him.
So, after all this, what then is the difference between Orthodox Christianity and them?
Mina,
They believe that Christ IS the Son of God who came to die for us, to give us salvation.
They do not see the need to call themselves Christians ONLY because they feel that there is no need - being Jewish and believing in Christ is exactly the route that was chosen for them by God.. they've taken that route (like Saint Paul).
First, Jews, as just Jews not "Jews for Jesus," as they might call themselves, are not the same as Christians. they believe in the Christ and the Son of God as it cannot be denied from the Old Testament. BUT they don't believe in Jesus Christ. A clear understandable difference. In general, it's close to like protestants, but defiantly not alike. isn't always that way.....what makes it different here?!
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=8151.msg104459#msg104459 date=1246827885]
I don't think we can separate our faith and spiritual traditions in the Orthodox Liturgy from Jewish traditions. The philosophy or agenda of Jews for Jesus seems to be that they feel the need to explain to Christians why Christ came to save us and the importance of Holy Communion as the Ultimate Passover. They do not want to be seen as Christians as it takes away from them their birth right as the chosen people of God - and the people who actually accepted Him rather than rejected Him.
So, after all this, what then is the difference between Orthodox Christianity and them?
For for those "Jews for Jesus", as i understood from what you said, it is kind of odd to believe that they are still thinking that they are "higher than us," being Christians in general. Also the concept of "the people who actually accepted Him rather than rejected Him" is also a little odd. review the Bible again, you'll find that there was many of the Jews who accepted him were as much (or even less, since He was disgracefully crucified) as those who rejected him.
Saint John said clearly (1:16-17):
"And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."
So we technically are worthy of the "grace and truth" that Jesus Christ have granted us. And we don't have anything against them.
Now, Jesus also said (Matthew 10:32-33):
"Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
hmm.....can it be any clearer or do i need to say anything?! Because my words (or anyone's words) can never make this clearer.
jews for Jesus are not the same as ordinary religious jews who reject the teaching of the Messiah. jews for Jesus are like 'messianic Jews'.
and guys, yes, it's important to be polite, this is a discussion not an argument!
(auntie) mabsoota ;)
just a short note,
jews for Jesus are not the same as ordinary religious jews who reject the teaching of the Messiah. jews for Jesus are like 'messianic Jews'.
and guys, yes, it's important to be polite, this is a discussion not an argument!
(auntie) mabsoota ;)
But, what I'm asking is if they believe that Christ IS their Savior, then what makes them difference from Orthodox Christians?
They see the practice of their Judaic spiritual traditions as relevant to their Christian faith.
As far as I can see, that makes them more Orthodox than Orthodox Christians
sorry, i like to joke! seriously though, this is what makes them Christian, and it is the most important thing, but from what i know (which is not too much!) the jews for Jesus don't think about the community of the saints so much or realise the saints are praying for them, and their teaching seems more protestant than anything else.
but maybe someone who knows more can tell us more
:)