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Going to a Gym - Moral Question
Hi,
I've been looking everywhere for a gym near where I live. I found one. The location is perfect. I could even walk there from either work or home.
Every other gym I've checked is either far away or ridiculously expensive.
I was reading a few things about this particular gym, and it turns out that it was a Roman Catholic Church called Notre Dame de L'Assomption.
I feel extremely bad about that!
What should I do?? I really need a gym, yet I find it quite insulting that it was a Church before.
What should I do? Is it morally wrong to go to this?? They even have a statue of Saint mary on the edifice of this gym.
I've been looking everywhere for a gym near where I live. I found one. The location is perfect. I could even walk there from either work or home.
Every other gym I've checked is either far away or ridiculously expensive.
I was reading a few things about this particular gym, and it turns out that it was a Roman Catholic Church called Notre Dame de L'Assomption.
I feel extremely bad about that!
What should I do?? I really need a gym, yet I find it quite insulting that it was a Church before.
What should I do? Is it morally wrong to go to this?? They even have a statue of Saint mary on the edifice of this gym.
Comments
i once was at a big conference with work, in a city i hadn't been to before, and i was pleased to see that our venue for dinner looked like it was near a monastery on the map. i was quite excited and started planning how to sneak away (maybe miss dessert) in order to chat to some nuns or monks.
it was only after i arrived at the dinner and was meeting my colleagues in the foyer, that i realised, with horror, that it was an ex-monastery and there were no monks and nuns left. i wondered then if i should just run for it, but that would have looked rude in front of my colleagues and i prayed for guidance on what to do. while the others were enjoying the architecture and sipping sparkling wine, i found an area with some old statues and paintings on display of saints, and saint mary and Jesus, so i thought, maybe only half the monastery is turned into a restaurant. i decided to stay.
soon after i saw a sign 'to the church' and thought, 'at least there is still a church here'.
however, as we were ushered in to dinner, i saw to my disgust that we were going to eat IN THE CHURCH! by then i was in the middle of about 200 people and options for escape were limited. there was no altar left and no religious symbols, so i wondered if i could possibly eat in the church without going home to an extended confession with abouna.
by then my heart was pounding. i prayed silently and sincerely to God, asking Him to use the situation for His glory. i decided to eat, but to also use the opportunity to talk about God (i didn't find another Christian there, and i suddenly realised all these people had no Christians to talk to).
by God's grace, after a few minutes of superficial and work-related conversation with the group i found myself sitting next to, we were able to talk about God easily as everyone noticed we were sitting in a church. my neighbour was delighted to find himself eating in a church and said how it was the best use for a church. he also said some negative things about religion generally. i acknowledged that many religious people in history had done bad things, then explained how i was actually very uncomfortable to be there as i usually attended church but not to eat! he was genuinely interested, and when we corresponded later, he remarked how he had had an enjoyable evening but one that made him think seriously about the existence of God.
so i suppose it depends on your motives for going to that gym. hopefully someone else has some more useful advice :)
its the only gym around in miles from where I live. Khallas.. i'm going to find another one. It is SO close to my home!!!
This is why I am suggesting that we, as Orthodox (EO and OO) use disused catholic Churches. Its absolutely disgusting converting these Holy Places into a gym or a restaurant, and worse still - nightclubs and sauna parlors.
Have you heard of the "Limelight"? its an old Anglican Church that has been converted to a nightclub.
The problem with people is that they cannot distinguish between the actions of a few bad people who called themselves Christian, and the belief and engagement of the Holy Sacraments that Christians follow.
Its like me hating all human beings because Hitler was a human being. Or hating all dogs because Rotweilers are dogs.
Many will be turned into houses or businesses.
I would love to be able to convert one for Orthodox use.
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/diocesesparishes/rcsale/
Father Peter
Here is a list of Anglican churches available for other uses.
Many will be turned into houses or businesses.
I would love to be able to convert one for Orthodox use.
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/diocesesparishes/rcsale/
Father Peter
Fr. Peter,
Go for it! I would recommend the Church in Saint Albans. It is near Stevenage, but St. Albans has already a strong Coptic Community anyway.
Regardless, they should offer these churches to orthodox communities if their congregations are lacking.
Saint Mark's Kensington (London) was in fact an Anglican Church at first. We purchased it off them. It is now a brilliant place of worship.
I think the fact that we are all sad about Anglican Churches or Catholic Churches being turned into mosques, bsinesses, housing etc shows clearly our innate respect for these denominations.
if someone told me a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witness will be turned into a toilet, I wouldnt mind ONE Bit - heck, I'd even encourage it. Nor if a mormon temple would be used as a massage parlor, I'd think it would not be a bad idea.
If it was a protestant Church, I wouldn't be so upset because protestants cannot say that they have Churches - Its not a place where they have an Altar ? I mean, most protestant temples I go to look like concert halls. Its just a stage where someone can stand up and tell feel-good stories to everyone else.
Going back to the original topic:
I REALLY need a gym. Its important. Would you agree that it would be wrong to use this gym then??
Here are various churches that have been converted and are being sold...
http://www.property.org.uk/unique/ch.html
If I were to do something similar to live and use a larger old church I would feel obliged at least to keep the chancel as a chapel.
In regard to going to the gym. I do not think it a sin. Churches are turned into other things because the local Church has lost its life. That is the greater tragedy. And as you have said, we should feel some sorrow when any 'traditional' Church building is closed. I think the issue is rather if you would feel comfortable doing exercises in the old chancel for instance? I know that whenever I visit an old Church in Britain where a shrine has been destroyed and the relics of the saints burned and scattered with the rubbish I feel very upset. I don't have such an issue with a church becoming a bookshop, or even a museum, or something 'quiet'. But when they are turned into clubs and pubs it seems deeply disrespectful. But whose fault is it? Is it the non-Christian just wanting to develop a business, or the church community that withered away?
Why not ask that the Lord provide some other opportunity for you that allowed you to honour him by avoiding using a building that has been hallowed by prayer in such a way? See what the Lord proposes.
Father Peter
having said that, going to the gym may be interesting because you can meet other mad people, sorry, i mean like-minded people ;) and make friends.
i went to a gym one year as it was ridiculously cheap (based at work) but mainly went there coz my friends went.
may God guide u
http://www.abbayedebival.com/
Only €450k
Father Peter
There is even the remains of a 12th century French Abbey for sale...
http://www.abbayedebival.com/
Only €450k
Father Peter
Thanks Fr. Peter for the advice. I will pray for it.
Whose fault is it? There are 1000's of Catholic churches that are disused. Their priesthood headcounts are declining. It CANNOT be used as a residence! What if the person who purchases it has no respect for Christianity and does diabolical things in the place where the altar was?
They've lost their marbles by not considering that these places of worship should be given to the Orthodox or even protestants (worst case).
By not even asking us if we wish to purchase it, i get the feeling that they don't really care about our faith, and what we have in common with them! What's worse is that we seem to respect their houses of worship more than them.
Concerning buying the French Abbey - 450K is quite a good deal. What do you suggest??
If 45,000 Coptic Christians just gave 10 euros - we could purchase this Church, and it could be used as an alternative to Stevenage.
Why not start a Facebook page to see if we can everyone to contribute 10 euros?
There are at least 1,000,000 Coptic Christians on FB. Im sure we could do this easily.
http://www.michaelparkes.co.uk/properties/property/chapel/st-bartholomew's-chapel/
It is in the town where my own tiny little chapel is situated. This ancient building dates in part from 1078 and so is 900 years old.
It is only £150,000 but will need renovation.
I don't have £150,000 but this would make a good church and mission/education centre.
Unfortunately not every one has money to spare. I would need a large number of supporters to raise the money.
Father Peter
Here is the building I would like....
http://www.michaelparkes.co.uk/properties/property/chapel/st-bartholomew's-chapel/
It is in the town where my own tiny little chapel is situated. This ancient building dates in part from 1078 and so is 900 years old.
It is only £150,000 but will need renovation.
I don't have £150,000 but this would make a good church and mission/education centre.
Unfortunately not every one has money to spare. I would need a large number of supporters to raise the money.
Father Peter
Don't you think that Orthodox Churches should / ought to get these places of worship at discounted rates?
We are successful in serving communities, and our own youth! Surely this should be raised as an option or gesture of good will between the Churches?!
They are selling multi-million dollar properties are silly low prices. Why??
I looked at another empty Church building in Chatham and the Anglicans wanted £250,000 to take out a lease, and then wanted £10k's of rent each year.
So the building I have mentioned, and created a thread about, is much more possible - though still impossible with our present resources.
Father Peter
I would imagine that this property is in need of renovation which is why it is at a lower price.
I looked at another empty Church building in Chatham and the Anglicans wanted £250,000 to take out a lease, and then wanted £10k's of rent each year.
So the building I have mentioned, and created a thread about, is much more possible - though still impossible with our present resources.
Father Peter
My parents, along with 2 other servants, went to an Auction to buy a property for the Coptic Orthodox Church.
They got this huge plot of land with an old school for around £300,000.
This is has now become the Coptic Centre - Stevenage.
I'm not sure about the actual price, but I'll ask them. It definately needed renovation! I mean, goodness me! You cannot imagine! There was no heating, nothing. The lights just about worked.
The first thing we did was : we made our own room: The boys room. Out of around 100 rooms, we felt we could at least ask for 1 room for ourselves.
The loft in this place is amazing. I don't think Anba Angaelos actually knows what's up there. Its huge. This loft, if converted, could take another 60 bunkbeds. Im sure. The problem is- to get up there!
Father Peter
Unfortunately, there is another reason for the sale of these houses of worship other than just declining congregations. The sums from these sales--that is the reason to seek out the highest price--is to pay for lawsuits and settlements for sexual abuse cases within the Roman Church.
In England the redundant church buildings tend to be Anglican and Protestant due to declining congregations. The Protestant ones are usually no more than 150 years old. The Anglican ones can be from the medeival period, unless in urban situations where they will usually also be less than 150 years old.
If I think of the town where I live, rather than where I worship, (which is 15 minutes away), in recent decades the following redundancies have occurred.
i. Medieval Church - Nursery
ii. Medieval Church - House
iii. Victorian Church - Offices
iv. Victorian Church - Flats
v. Victorian Church - Demolished and flats
vi. Early 20th century Church - Demolished and flats
vii. Victorian Church - Converted to youth centre
My own local Anglican parish church is likely to be closed in the next few years.
Yet there are the pentecostal/charismatic groups who are buying or renting office type accommodation to use for worship and other activities.
There are still plenty of church buildings being used. But the Anglicans are especially seeing a reduction in congregations.
Father Peter
How was the purchase funded though?
Father Peter
We purchased it.
We had to go into the Auction with the money.
Once we purchased it, we got this really excellent monk. He was brilliant. But the politics in the Church drove him away. We then had this monk from Australia come. His name was Abouna Angaelos.
We used to hang out together. After a few years, he then became Anba Angaelos.
How to refurbish stevenage?
As far as I know - this was FREE. lol
A lot of Coptic Christians, those especially who came from Egypt, were looking for work. They didnt have much skills, but they wanted a place to stay. We killed 2 birds with one stone. We got them to do the DIY work, they had job-training, and we gave them a place to stay.
Once abouna became an Anba - everything changed. It was no longer ours. Things changed. we had to give up our "hideout" - this became a study for one of the priests. lol.. its OK. But also, more importantly, H.G ended up with a LOT of funding from the Church - how? I don't know. I mean, there was stuff done that went beyond DIY. Certain changes were going on that required major changes, and financing.. and they got done.
How did we get funding to build a cathedral? No idea?!
You'd have to ask H.G.Angaelos
The most rewarding part about Stevenage is this:
The building was a boarding school for kids with problems. I mean REAL problems. I think they were abused, or they had some sort of social problem. We worked our way downstairs into the basement of the centre. It was really scary. Dark, morbid, damp. The administration who ran the school left the dossiers of all the children there. I couldnt help but read through them.
These kids had a really miserable life and time in Stevenage. Of course, it is glad to see it now being used to bring a lot of youth together and it is being used for the Glory of God; but I am sad still that those children didnt come back see what we had done to their old boarding school. It would be interesting to invite them and make friends with them.
The same building, but a different spirit. I wonder what they'd make of it if they came back??
Hi,
I've been looking everywhere for a gym near where I live. I found one. The location is perfect. I could even walk there from either work or home.
Every other gym I've checked is either far away or ridiculously expensive.
I was reading a few things about this particular gym, and it turns out that it was a Roman Catholic Church called Notre Dame de L'Assomption.
I feel extremely bad about that!
Its Latin, so it was not an actual church, in my opinion. Just my opinion folks.
What should I do?? I really need a gym, yet I find it quite insulting that it was a Church before.
What should I do? Is it morally wrong to go to this?? They even have a statue of Saint mary on the edifice of this gym.