Who is the "666" Beast?

Zoxsasi

Hi,

I'd like to know what or who you believe IS the beast in revelations 13.

In revelations 13, 17-18, it says:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I'd like to know: what is Six hundred threescore and six? What is "Threescore"?

I read a few books on this, and apparently, the number of this "beast" points to Mohammad. Sorry to say this, but it really doesn't look too promising for him.

What do you think of that??

The reasoning is this:

Most theories have spotted something quite interesting:

The letters in the original language of the Book of Revelation that equate to 666 looks/resembles the words "Bism Allah". One of the characters even being an "x" sign, or "chi" in Coptic.

Obviously, you don't need to be a genius to figure out that this is the emblem of Islam (the 2 swords), and the Saudi flag.

So, apparently, people will carry this sign around their heads. Well, Islamic militants do tend to wear headbands with this sign on it. Don't they?

It really does seem to be pointing to Mohammad.

a) 1st it says in Revelations 13: "and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. "

I would say that Mohammad's god is blasphemous. I think we all agree on that??

b) No one would be able to make war with this beast.

How exactly do you start a war with Islam?

c) "Who is like unto the beast" ?

I do get the impression that muslims tend to say this often about their prophet and their religion.

d) "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Well well.. that would be us, that would have been every Christian persecuted by this religion since the 6th century. Wouldn't it? From the siege of constantinople, to the invasion of Egypt by Amr ibn Ass - or whatever his name is to the attacks on the WTC on 9/11.

e) "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

What can I say? too bad, so sad.. never mind. Such a shame they're not coming.

Anyway, with Islamisation of Europe, and most of the west, it does look as if Islam is gaining momentum. But I'm not worshipping, i'm only eating Hallal meat. I'm not worshipping him, but I'm forced to read the Quran as a Christian in Egypt. I'm not worshipping him, but im forced to respect him.

So, yeah.. I can see how St John could just summarise this and say "all those that dwell on the earth shall worship him".. why we're even building a mosque for him at Ground 0.

f) "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12  And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Any takes on this one guys??

So, which power in today's world is making people convert to Islam? Which power is pushing for people to worship Islam?

before I attempt to answer that... let's see the next verses:

g) "and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

I would say this, and I could be wrong:

If the beast is Islam, then this 2nd beast is Saudi Arabia. Look : if Iraq and Afghanistan win this war (which looks most likely, Islam will appear victorious... tribal men with guns would have defeated the greatest military power in the world. That's a miracle. All this is being financed by Saudi money. 


h) 15  "And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

What is the image of the beast?? New mosques? I don't know.

As for having "power to give life" to the image of the beast, I'd say this is Saudi Money and Fatwas.

As many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed...

OK - guys.. look: WHICH RELIGION KILLS YOU IF YOU RENOUNCE IT OR BECOME AN APOSTATE????

Let's see:
Judaism? - no.
Christianity? - no
Hinduism ? No
Buddism -? No?

hmmm... if you have any ideas as to which religion kills apostates, please let me know. It could help in figuring out who this beast is??

And let's face it, we are prime targets of terrorist activities ONLY because we're not muslim.

I) 16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

So, if the mark of the beast (666) is "Bism Allah, " and "mohammad rassoool allah" then surely that bandana that hamas wear (ON THEIR HEADS) is a good or reasonable answer.

Children wear it too. They all want to die for this "beast" 'allah'

And they get it anyway, like Ayman Al Zawahiri, that little brown patch on their heads that they get from worshipping the beast.

J) and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

I guess muslims are only doing business with muslims. Which makes sense.

In Islam, everyone who is not muslim is a kafir - or unbeliever, and the koran teaches that they should not do business nor make friends with non muslims.

It seems to me that the beast is Islam.


Does anyone have any other ideas who this beast is???

I know we talked about this before, and a few people said it was Anne Coulter. But what does the Orthodox Church say about this beast????

ilovesaintmark

It is Oprah Winfrey--Clear and simple.

Zoxsasi

[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9836.msg120370#msg120370 date=1286536857]
It is Oprah Winfrey--Clear and simple.


Between Oprah and Mohammad, who'd win?

OK. .if Oprah, Mohammad and Superman all had a fight, who'd win?

Mohammad would win!!

Look: He'd tell Oprah that God told them to get married. He'd then find out she wasn't a virgin, stone her, and keep all her money. He'd probably get a few pakistanis to stone her.

Smart aye!!

Then he'd bring out his nifty Quran and abrogate a few verses, add a bit here, take a bit off there, and issue a fatwa against Superman for insulting Islam.

ilovesaintmark

I believe Oprah to be either the bride of the anti-Christ, or the prophet heralding the coming of the anti-Christ.

Do not rag on Superman, because the BAM will chime in.

As for Mohammad, that is a separate obvious topic.

I'm just being obnoxious.  Sorry, Zoxsasi.

But, I still cannot stand Oprah.

Zoxsasi

I have read that Revelations was written in Greek, and in some resources, it says in Aramaic.

Which is it?

katanikhoros

You guys have it all wrong, the anti-christ is Obama, no doubt. All this conjecture about who the anti-christ is, including claims that it is Islam (which I would really like to believe), are JUST conjecture.

GB

Zoxsasi

[quote author=katanikhoros link=topic=9836.msg120384#msg120384 date=1286545223]
You guys have it all wrong, the anti-christ is Obama, no doubt. All this conjecture about who the anti-christ is, including claims that it is Islam (which I would really like to believe), are JUST conjecture.

GB


Look guv'na,

Your theory that obama is the anti-Christ is conjecture. What proof do you have?

And why do you not believe that Mohammad is the anti-Christ??

ilovesaintmark

Oprah declared him the "saviour".  No politician has ever been called a savior.

Zoxsasi

[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9836.msg120388#msg120388 date=1286549389]
Oprah declared him the "saviour".  No politician has ever been called a savior.


I think she meant it as if Obama will save America from War, Financial Disaster, and another stupid republican like Bush.

Maybe? I don't know.

But if the Oprah is the beast with 10 heads and Obama is the beast with 2 horns, that would mean Britney Spears and Madonna are the 2 horns?

It doesn't make sense...

The logos, the terrorism, the killing/beheadings, etc.. its all so very apocolyptic with Mo. He really knows how to make your spine go all jelly like.

But what does the Coptic Church say about this? Who is the Anti-Christ in the Coptic Orthodox Church's opinion???

peterfarrington

You need to read the Orthodox commentators and see what they say.

You will find that there is a proper reserve in being dogmatic about any of these things.

Father Peter

Zoxsasi

[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=9836.msg120391#msg120391 date=1286550716]
You need to read the Orthodox commentators and see what they say.

You will find that there is a proper reserve in being dogmatic about any of these things.

Father Peter


My apologies Fr. Peter,

IloveSaintMark threw the topic into funland after mentioning that Oprah was the Anti-Christ.

Can you direct me to what or to WHO the Orthodox fathers say is the Anti-Christ??

Where can I find Orthodox Bible Commentaries??

Thanks

peterfarrington

My son, search the internet and you will find wisdom if you look in the right place.

Try books.google.com.

The Fathers do not generally think that we can say who the anti-Christ is. Oecumenius, the first great commentator on the Revelation and a member of our communion, suggests that the number of the beast may mean 'the conqueror' (which does work out to 666), but he doesn't work it out to a particular person.

Father Peter

Ioannes

Actually many church fathers tried to work out the name, but all who did recognized that it could not be done in their lifetime. St. Andrew of Caesarea for example tried, but stated that things like this, as well as many of the 7 seals, could not be known until we were in that era in which they would take place. The number is most definetly in reference to a man, to know this would take great wisdom as the scripture states. This means knowing the signs, and understanding the things he and the false prophet do to realize that this is he of whom the scripture speaks of.

St. Paul says that the mystery of iniquity was at work even in his time, or lawlessness. Which means that satan is trying to bring about lawlessness to usher in the antichrist. Not lawlessness as in anarchy but lawlessness in terms of the law of God being overthrown and replaced by a new law and morality. This must be done for the antichrist to come and as St. Paul tells us in 2 Thess. 2:3 the falling away MUST come first. So despite what some of our leaders say about the falling away not happening, it simply is not true. This has to happen to water down the church, as in Rev. 12 when satan attempts to drown the church with heresy and lies. This will virtually destroy Christianity as we know it, atleast Orthodox Christianity.

Now many of the protestants, atleast the modern ones, will fall into the antichrists trap thinking he has come to rapture them out of here. Many others will think he is Christ and has come to reign 1,000 years, and will therefore worship him. The majority of the jews will follow him because they believe he is a messiah, as he is a jew from the tribe of dan, which is why it is not mentioned in Rev. as one of the tribes.

This is why it is important to stop foreign beliefs from tainting our church. The end is now, pray.

minatasgeel

on a serious note:

who do you guys all think that "Anti-Christ" is a PERSON, one being that changes everything?

look at this a search of the word "antichrist" and see how St John uses the definition in context.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=antichrist&c=&t=nkj&ps=10&s=Bibles

Ioannes

St. John says it is the number of a man. In these contexts he is speaking of AN antichrist not THE antichrist. Arius was an antichrist, but clearly not THE antichrist. Using other verses to try and define what he was talking about in the Gospel of the Apocalypse does not add up, two totally different contexts. The antichrist is a man.

ilovesaintmark

Ioannes,

Are you saying that Oprah Winfrey is a man?

minatasgeel

[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120405#msg120405 date=1286560995]
The antichrist is a man.

it is also the SPIRIT of a man that will run many ppl......like what is the devil is doing now.

Ioannes

[quote author=minagir link=topic=9836.msg120421#msg120421 date=1286581673]
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120405#msg120405 date=1286560995]
The antichrist is a man.

it is also the SPIRIT of a man that will run many ppl......like what is the devil is doing now.


You need to learn to separate the difference between an antichrist, like Hitler, Stalin, Jim Jones, Oprah, etc. and THE antichrist. Do you get what I am saying?

minatasgeel

[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120426#msg120426 date=1286586660]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=9836.msg120421#msg120421 date=1286581673]
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120405#msg120405 date=1286560995]
The antichrist is a man.

it is also the SPIRIT of a man that will run many ppl......like what is the devil is doing now.


You need to learn to separate the difference between an antichrist, like Hitler, Stalin, Jim Jones, Oprah, etc. and THE antichrist. Do you get what I am saying?

well EXACTLY.....we won't know what we are talking about untill it's there...and till than, we will keep thinking about it and talking and forgit God Himself.
Let us live today and be ready, waiting for the Bridegroom to come.

Zoxsasi

Fr. Peter,

Could you kindly BRIEFLY tell me who is the anti-Christ? If I did a search on google, how could I be sure to find references that the Church approves of? I remember we talked about a site called Orthodoxinfo on tasbeha.org and apparently this website is not respectful of our Church. How would I have known that this site was not recommended and its an Orthodox website too??

If Oprah is the anti, or Prince Abdallah of Saudi Arabia, I'm not bothered... but i'd like to know who the 666 refers to so I could avoid them, he, she , or it.

mabsoota

we don't know who is the anti-Christ.
no-one knows.
as father peter said, the church fathers don't tell us who it is, so maybe he/she/it wasn't even born yet.
lots of people waste time making internet videos to show who it is, and many of the so-called anti-Christs already died peacefully, so, i reckon it wasn't them!  ;)
maybe it's good focus on how to be ready for the return of our Lord instead.

peterfarrington

We do not know.

Ioannes

minagr, I understand that you want us all to not focus on these issues, but it is relevant, as St. John tells us, and even Christ warns of the endtimes. So I cannot take your advice.

minatasgeel

[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120466#msg120466 date=1286670613]
minagr, I understand that you want us all to not focus on these issues, but it is relevant, as St. John tells us, and even Christ warns of the endtimes. So I cannot take your advice.

well.....don't take mine. Take Fr Peter's....or go ask your church priest what's the right advice....and please tell us what he says.

anba bola

We don't know who or when they'll come.
Zoxasi, where did you read this. I hope it wasn't an orthodox source. Don't read or listen to anything non-orthodox, about the end, as many are very inaccurate (there about 1000 theories about who the antichrist is.) I searched some of the writings of the fathers I have and none state who the antichrist is.

minatasgeel

[quote author=anba bola link=topic=9836.msg120471#msg120471 date=1286671555]
We don't know who or when they'll come. If we know when the antichrist is coming then we'd know when the end is. How then would the statement of Christ saying "No man knows the day nor the hour" regarding the end, be true.

nonono.....the coming of antichrist is one of the signs of the end......nothing that comes will tell us the exact time of it.

Ioannes

[quote author=minagir link=topic=9836.msg120470#msg120470 date=1286671378]
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120466#msg120466 date=1286670613]
minagr, I understand that you want us all to not focus on these issues, but it is relevant, as St. John tells us, and even Christ warns of the endtimes. So I cannot take your advice.

well.....don't take mine. Take Fr Peter's....or go ask your church priest what's the right advice....and please tell us what he says.


The Gospel of the Apocalypse was revealed to St. John for a reason. Heeding the advice in this book is wise indeed, and it most definetly pertains to salvation. Some people focus on theology, or on apologetics, comparative theology, church history, etc. Yet your telling me focusing on the endtimes is wrong. Sorry but I think I will defer to someone else on this subject.

minatasgeel

[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120478#msg120478 date=1286682138]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=9836.msg120470#msg120470 date=1286671378]
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9836.msg120466#msg120466 date=1286670613]
minagr, I understand that you want us all to not focus on these issues, but it is relevant, as St. John tells us, and even Christ warns of the endtimes. So I cannot take your advice.

well.....don't take mine. Take Fr Peter's....or go ask your church priest what's the right advice....and please tell us what he says.


The Gospel of the Apocalypse was revealed to St. John for a reason. Heeding the advice in this book is wise indeed, and it most definetly pertains to salvation. Some people focus on theology, or on apologetics, comparative theology, church history, etc. Yet your telling me focusing on the endtimes is wrong. Sorry but I think I will defer to someone else on this subject.

TELL ME WHERE DID I EVER SAY IT'S WRONG?! read what i said again.

I am not saying we need to not think about......but what will it benefits us to follow something that we actually should HOPE to not get to. Christ said:
"But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?" (Matthew 24:43-45)
The reason we need to know about it is to simply NOT TO GIVE UP being with God from all the suffering we will be having...but NOT TO KNOW THE TIME of it. In fact, i hope that we don't live through it. Living in God's faith and dieing now, if worthy, to live in Paradise till Judgment Day is a lot better than living to that Day.

Zoxsasi

Guys,

What I hate more than Islam is Coptic Orthodox Christians attacking each other.

Its not worth it. Let's be united. We have the same enemy and the same friends.

This topic isn't even worth to argue over, nor is theology.

I don't understand in Theology, but all I know is that Jesus Christ died for my sins and He loves me. This is enough.

minatasgeel

[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=9836.msg120491#msg120491 date=1286732006]
This topic isn't even worth to argue over, nor is theology.

if it's not worth it then don't post it.

ilovesaintmark

You started it Zoxsasi.