The Last Supper

Meena_Ameen

Was the bread an wine Jesus gave at the last supper really the true Body and Blood? I know the communion we take now really is the Body and Blood, but if Jesus hadn't even died on the cross yet, how could he give his disciples his body and blood? Also, we all know in the Old Testament Melchizedek gave a sacrifice of bread and wine, was that just symbolically the Body and Blood of Christ or was it also the true body and blood of christ?

minatasgeel

[quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=9898.msg121229#msg121229 date=1287954446]
Was the bread an wine Jesus gave at the last supper really the true Body and Blood? I know the communion we take now really is the Body and Blood, but if Jesus hadn't even died on the cross yet, how could he give his disciples his body and blood? Also, we all know in the Old Testament Melchizedek gave a sacrifice of bread and wine, was that just symbolically the Body and Blood of Christ or was it also the true body and blood of christ?

let me ask you one question...how did we get to know and participate in the Body and Blood of Christ today?

Meena_Ameen

[quote author=minagir link=topic=9898.msg121232#msg121232 date=1287960103]
[quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=9898.msg121229#msg121229 date=1287954446]
Was the bread an wine Jesus gave at the last supper really the true Body and Blood? I know the communion we take now really is the Body and Blood, but if Jesus hadn't even died on the cross yet, how could he give his disciples his body and blood? Also, we all know in the Old Testament Melchizedek gave a sacrifice of bread and wine, was that just symbolically the Body and Blood of Christ or was it also the true body and blood of christ?

let me ask you one question...how did we get to know and participate in the Body and Blood of Christ today?


Im not sure if I understand exactly what your asking, but, id say from Jesus who instituted it

minatasgeel

[quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=9898.msg121233#msg121233 date=1287960181]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=9898.msg121232#msg121232 date=1287960103]
[quote author=Meena_Ameen link=topic=9898.msg121229#msg121229 date=1287954446]
Was the bread an wine Jesus gave at the last supper really the true Body and Blood? I know the communion we take now really is the Body and Blood, but if Jesus hadn't even died on the cross yet, how could he give his disciples his body and blood? Also, we all know in the Old Testament Melchizedek gave a sacrifice of bread and wine, was that just symbolically the Body and Blood of Christ or was it also the true body and blood of christ?

let me ask you one question...how did we get to know and participate in the Body and Blood of Christ today?


Im not sure if I understand exactly what your asking, but, id say from Jesus who instituted it

exactly....that's one main reason that happened. as for the symbolism, i'll let other answers.

Meena_Ameen

No, but that not my point. I know that when we take communion in the Church it is the REAL body and blood. What I want to know is whether it was the REAL body and blood at the last supper which was BEFORE Jesus even died. Likewise, another question arises. If the forgiveness of sins did not come until AFTER the sacrifice, why is it that you hear Jesus in the gospels telling people "your sins are forgiven". I thought the sins could only be forgiven AFTER he died on the cross, not anytime before.

servant33

Yes, it is His Body and Blood at the Last Supper. Matthew 26:
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

ilovesaintmark

The Sacramental sequence for the Apostles was not the same as for us.

For example, they received Baptism and the Holy Eucharist, and later on they received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost Day.

You should not be looking at it by chronology but by the institutional aspect as Our Lord was passing the Sacrificial Act and in the self same manner the aspects of the Priesthood.

Meena_Ameen

[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9898.msg121250#msg121250 date=1287969047]
The Sacramental sequence for the Apostles was not the same as for us.

For example, they received Baptism and the Holy Eucharist, and later on they received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost Day.

You should not be looking at it by chronology but by the institutional aspect as Our Lord was passing the Sacrificial Act and in the self same manner the aspects of the Priesthood.


That makes sense, but can we say the same thing for the case of Melchizedek? As well as Jesus forgiving sins before his sacrifice?

John_S2000

When Our Lord Jesus Christ says to someone that her/his sins are forgiven then indeed they are. His Divine Salvation work started from the moment the Son of God united with our nature (without change or mingling), i.e. it started by the incarnation of the Word, His Ministry, to His Death on the Cross, His Resurrection, His Ascension and for eternity.

Melchizedek was a high priest and king of Salem, he was the direct symbolic representation of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Jesus is the High Priest and the King of kings, Salem representing Jerusalem). I think it was similar to the baptism of repentance done by St John the Baptist to prepare the way of the Lord, in that it preceded the Sacrament of Baptism and the Sacrament of Chrismation, but I'm not sure 100%.

I had a book on Melchizedek, when I find it if necessary I'll revise my reply.

GBU

anba bola

This link contains a book by Pope Shenouda of which page 86-90 are about Melchizedek: http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/Many%20Years%20with%20the%20Problems%20of%20People%20P%20-%20HH%20Pope%20Shenouda%20III.pdf

In the link Pope Shenouda writes about how they are not the same person, and explains the significane of Melchizedek as a symbol of Christ, and not Christ himself. He also explains the person of Melchizedek and the things said about him.