Hey There, Im 14 (Boy) and christian orthodox and i was wondering why kissing a girl/boy on the Lips is considered a sin in my religion and where does it say that in the bible? And if you go to church or Ever asked your priest or teachers in church and they think differently please post as it will help me through my life. Don't right because of lust or it will lead to other things cause i now my boundries and limits and i DON'T PASS THEM. CAUSE i posted this before and nobody answered my question! all they said was it can lead to other things or yes it is even though i said Is it still bad even though you dont lust.
Thank You. :-\ >:( >:( >:( >:(
Comments
For example: it's perfectly fine to kiss your mother, brother, father, sister, grandparents, relatives...and etc.
why? because there's no how no way you're lusting for them...ya see?
Here is a quote from an article by H.H. Pope Shenouda III called What is love? Pray for me
I belive--your saying lusting is desire for something eh? well when i want a toy video game cloth, shoes, i'am i lusting for the shoe?? when you bug your dad for something do they say stop lusting!!! dont think so.. anyways look up the word defeniftion there's a couple of them and they all include somethign that has to do with sex not just any desire..
and as for pope shenouda III i do not want desire its called love. and do you think anybody would just waste themselfes on someone they dont love but are acting selfish?? have you ever had that feeling that you liked someone how woudl you act selfish to them?
What i feel everyday is something is missing from me and i think this will fill it up! not as desire but for love.
Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is to be held honourable among all, and the bed undefiled..."
Here are some questions we should ask ourselves. (believe me, I didnt understand until it was explained to me like this)
If I am married, is it ok for me to have a physical relationship with another woman? Why?
Is it ok for me to kiss this woman? Why?
Because she is not my wife, and I am only supposed to do those things with my wife (I know, basics, but you'll see why I put this in)
This is the part where some people have trouble with. (Our present society)
If having a relationship and kissing another woman (outside of marriage) is wrong, and God said that "Marriage is to be held honourable among all" Then why do people think it should be any different, if you are single, outside/before your marriage
God is saying that the intimacies shared in marriage, should stay in marriage. This applies to married and single people alike.
Please pray for me
In Christ,
I belive--your saying lusting is desire for something eh? well when i want a toy video game cloth, shoes, i'am i lusting for the shoe?? when you bug your dad for something do they say stop lusting!!! dont think so.. anyways look up the word defeniftion there's a couple of them and they all include somethign that has to do with sex not just any desire..
Lust is indeed the desire for something, whether it be sexual desires, money, fame, power, or even, in your example, brand new shoes. Of course no one says "stop lusting", for there are other words that are more commonly used, but it is a common misconception that lust is only about sex, when in fact we are warned about lust as early as the 10 Commandments, when we are told not to covet (or lust for) anything that our neighbour owns (lust for possessions), and not to covet our neighbour's wife, which is the sexual lust that you are referring to.
In God,
Michael Boutros
WHY?
cause i now my boundries and limits and i DON'T PASS THEM.
That's a bold statement to make. Who can say they know their limits? We are human, we are still weak. Instead say with the Grace of God I won't fall, because really none of us can stand strong without him. Now that we got that out of the way.. let's talk about kissing. You mentioned your 14, you need to consider that there is a time for everything. 14 is not the right time to be kissing girls, unless she is your wife.. in that case, do what you want, no one will stop you. Ok, so we know very well that sin leads to desire and desire leads to lust and lust leads to death (spiritually)... and don't tell me you know your limits superman, because even great Saints fell, so I wouldn't be too proud about it if I were you. So how does it lead to desire? I'll be practical with you, I'm sure kissing feels good, and if it does then I'm sure people will want to do it again, and thats where the desire comes in! The devil never stops habibi, do you think because you told him "I am strong, I won't fall.. I know my limits" he will leave? Are you kidding! This is one of his favorite quotes from us, because now he's saying, "they're not relying on God, so this is a perfect chance for me to sneak in!" Let's not be deceived and allow the devil to walk into our lives this easily.
I suggest you read the first chapter of James.
Peace.
Dearest Christianlover,
Trust me, at a young age u still have no clue what loving a girl means!
I suggest you read 1Korinthians chapter 13 and tell me if you apply all that is written there in your "love". Love doesn't seek anything for itself for a starter. That means that if I claim to love a person, i wouldnt think about MY needs and MY desires, but always put the best interest of the other and God's will for this person above everything else! This takes maturity, and during puberty it's highly unlikely that anyone reaches that state. That doesn't mean in puberty you can't be a good and loving and godly person, yet it's a difficult age where ur emotions and psychology are not stabilized.
Kissing a girl / boy is pointless at a time when you don't even know if you'll merry eachother. Then why start a physical bond between the two? God willed for a man and a woman to be united in perfect unity: physically, emotionally, spiritually etc. Are you ready for this? A relationship needs commitment, are you 100% sure you can be commited to a girl? Kissing is a very intimate thing that creates a strong bond! Don't be mislead by the society that tells u it's "just a kiss": that's the distorted image that we see everyday. You hear it's "not a big deal", well it is actually.
St Paul explicitely says:
(1Tes 4:3-7)
3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor...7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Moreover he says:
(Rom 12:1-2)
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Fornication is not one line you cross as many may think, but a lustfull attitude that we may have in our lives. Yet we are called to be holy and our bodies are a temple and a living holy sacrifice to God. And if Christ says that looking sinfully at a woman is already committing adultery, then shouldn't we abstain from any physical union untill marriage? It's not easy, but it definitely is worth it!
Just one final advise from your struggling brother: (sorry it turned out to be a bit long lol)
you shouldn't obstain from pointless relations and physical contact in this age because it's not "allowed" or because the church says so, or because you think it's a taboo in your culture. You should strive towards a life of purity for the sake of your own happyness. God is not some kind of fun police who doesn't want us to enjoy ourselves but our Father who came to give us life and for us to have it more abundantly (John 10:10), so he knows what is best for us.
Inside each and everyone of us is this feeling or desire of wanting to be united in perfect love, and maybe some kind of loneliness, but during our youth it's a perfect opportunity to be filled by God and be satisfied with Him, untill we are ready to be united to the spouse God has prepared for you. You may feel the need to be "completed" by another person right now, but is it truly wise to start a relationship that has a 99,99999999% chance of not lasting? The hurt you may end up with could be really bad!
So you can either trust God and wait and see that it's worth it to fullfill all these desires in their right context (marriage), or go fool around and end up loosing the precious gifts and blessings that God wants you to have in the right time. An unripe fruit may look very tasty from the outside, but once you have a bite you will realise it was wiser to wait a bit more!
Its troubling me deeply.
Why are you asking if kissing is a sin? This question is really overwhelming.
Don't we say in the Liturgical prayers "Greet one another with a holy kiss"? Why then are you asking if kissing is a sin? If the kiss is holy, it should be OK. Unless you were thinking of an unholy kiss??
Many people in the Church say that kissing is not a sin, but if done out of lust, it can lead to sin. My point of view is this: How would u like someone to kiss your wife? What limits/boundaries would you like some guy to set for himself when he's with the girl YOU ARE GOING TO MARRY??? What limits would u suggest?
What kind of kiss would u suggest that he has with your future wife? A holy kiss? or an unholy kiss??
Christianity is concerned about the state of your heart. It is not about sharia law. We don't have sharia law. It is only concerned with if your desires are turning something holy into something unholy.
My suggestion is that those who say that it can lead to sin, but it is not a sin, need to ask themselves if what they are doing merits holiness? And the litmus test for holiness is when u do something, what is in your heart??
When you kiss you are allowing a guy to have privilege over your body. This privilege should be given only to your husband and no one else. The Holy Bible says, "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are" (1 Cor 3:16-17). God wants us to seek guidance form scriptural truth not feelings. Affection or love looks beyond personal desires and the momentary gratification of the senses. It looks at the big picture: serving others and glorifying God. Do not think of what you want, but at what God wants.
I suggest you read these books: Purity, by Fr. Tadros Malaty and I Kissed Dating Goodbye, by Joshua Harris."
-Anba Youssef
I havent read all the posts.. but kissing is not a sin (if it doesn't lead to anything else at that age).
If that is your stand point, what are the chances it will not lead into anything? Especially anything good?
In the wrong situations, such as the one being described, you can liken kissing to marijuana. It is a gateway to other things, wheather they be physical actions or mental thoughts. Now if kissing is not a sin, are all the things that stem from it sins? Yes ofcourse.
agapi
That being said, kissing can be used as a temptation that opens up doors to other temptations. Once again, things a 14 year old boy should not be involved in.
And than some you said what if someone kissed your wife? Are you joking me? you think i care? once you married all that happened in the past is over.
And to the people that said it can lead to other things? dont you have anything else to say? that wasn't my question. i said is kissing wrong. its funny me and my dad had the same talk and he also said it can lead to other things now he left me confused !!! lol haha!! after he said that i just wanted to end the conversation as soon as possiable because its not going to help if all he said was it can lead to other things lol?
I thought this was a good site to post it on since its people from church but i guess it was a mistake...
wow i luagh everytime i read this post!! loooooooooooool. im really getting tired of you people giving me verses from the bible i know its the best plc to get answers from but couldn't you give me a simple answer???/!!!! YES OR NO? Anyways most of you said it can lead to otherthings??
And than some you said what if someone kissed your wife? Are you joking me? you think i care? once you married all that happened in the past is over.
And to the people that said it can lead to other things? dont you have anything else to say? that wasn't my question. i said is kissing wrong. its funny me and my dad had the same talk and he also said it can lead to other things now he left me confused !!! lol haha!! after he said that i just wanted to end the conversation as soon as possiable because its not going to help if all he said was it can lead to other things lol?
I thought this was a good site to post it on since its people from church but i guess it was a mistake...
They are trying to exlpain why the answer is no. Just giving you an answer, yes or no, doesn't allow you to understand. When you're older and a kid asks you the same question, it could by followed by another question, which would be "why?". What are you going to answer then? "oh uhhhh sorry I don't know, i was ignorant and just wanted yes or no."
Fools don't seek understanding.
This is a Coptic forum and the best answers will obviously be backed up by Bible verses.
It seems that you have made up your mind and are just looking for someone to agree with you.
This forum is for people seeking spiritual advice and if that's not what you are looking for then you are posting in the wrong place.
wow i luagh everytime i read this post!! loooooooooooool. im really getting tired of you people giving me verses from the bible i know its the best plc to get answers from but couldn't you give me a simple answer???/!!!! YES OR NO? Anyways most of you said it can lead to otherthings??
And than some you said what if someone kissed your wife? Are you joking me? you think i care? once you married all that happened in the past is over.
And to the people that said it can lead to other things? dont you have anything else to say? that wasn't my question. i said is kissing wrong. its funny me and my dad had the same talk and he also said it can lead to other things now he left me confused !!! lol haha!! after he said that i just wanted to end the conversation as soon as possiable because its not going to help if all he said was it can lead to other things lol?
I thought this was a good site to post it on since its people from church but i guess it was a mistake...
Simple answer is YES. Why? The greek word for sin (amartias) means missing the mark or heading the wrong way. Since kissing (we aren't talking about a handkiss or one on the cheek obviously) is a physical expression of love and union between a man and a woman, that should only be expressed in marriage, when both man and woman have privilidge over eachother (as anba Yousef explained), (mis)using these gifts in an inapropriate time is not according to God's plan for marriage, and therefore it's considered a sin. Simple conclusion: kissing is a sin when outside the context of marriage.
You also said: Often things that happened in the past are a source of problems later. It's not a rule, but it definitely happens. Don't think so lightly of this.
i think it may have started with kissing...
seriously all us oldies tell u stuff coz we can actually remember being 13, 14 etc. i believe u when u explain that u don't have full lustful images in your head, but you just have fuzzy feelings.
well we have known fuzzy feelings too and we know where they can lead, which is why, because we care for you, that we don't want you to make the same mistakes we made :(
we pray for all who have this dilemma, please pray for us too in our weakness
Hey grace, im not looking for someone to agree with me?! if i was i would have just stopped posting on this forum and and put it in my head that its not wrong. But too many people said its wrong and the same amount of people said it was right. you also said i didn't want any explanisions or verses from the bible, thats because i've read enough posts with the same verses. and why do you think i posted here? To not get any spirtual adivce???
Hos Erof gift? what gift? im not having sex and creating a baby ?? i said kissing? you also said things that happen in the past are the source of problems in the future? im talking about kissing. come back on this post and tell me whats the worst that can happan.
mabsoota, W0W Thx for your answer (unknown...) thx for telling me a story about a 13 year old girl that felt bad lol? I'm still woundering what your answer was. Was the story about 13 year old girl or the part about the fuzzy feelings lol?
Hey HISSERVENT thanks for your answer. now you pretty much said all answers need to be backed up well you didn't back up your answer?
Hey grace, im not looking for someone to agree with me?! if i was i would have just stopped posting on this forum and and put it in my head that its not wrong. But too many people said its wrong and the same amount of people said it was right. you also said i didn't want any explanisions or verses from the bible, thats because i've read enough posts with the same verses. and why do you think i posted here? To not get any spirtual adivce???
Hos Erof gift? what gift? im not having sex and creating a baby ?? i said kissing? you also said things that happen in the past are the source of problems in the future? im talking about kissing. come back on this post and tell me whats the worst that can happan.
mabsoota, W0W Thx for your answer (unknown...) thx for telling me a story about a 13 year old girl that felt bad lol? I'm still woundering what your answer was. Was the story about 13 year old girl or the part about the fuzzy feelings lol?
If you are going to be a jerk don't post. I didn't answer you anything that made me have to back it up. I said that all answers should be backed up so you don't look a fool in the future. If you are going to get an answer and then criticize people for helping you then you aren't welcome on this forum. You asked for an answer and then told people that they are giving too much information.
[quote author=christianlover link=topic=7733.msg101329#msg101329 date=1238111987]
wow i luagh everytime i read this post!! loooooooooooool. im really getting tired of you people giving me verses from the bible i know its the best plc to get answers from but couldn't you give me a simple answer???/!!!! YES OR NO?
I thought this was a good site to post it on since its people from church but i guess it was a mistake...
If you read the title of the post it clearly says WHY is kissing considered a sin, WHY is not a yes or no answer question, it asks for an explination.
For you, it might have been a mistake to post on this site. This site is for those who want to benefit not those who want to continue being ignorant.
Satan, or one of his supporter said to you: "Look, i will give you now this seed (the thought to kiss a girl). i will now put it into you, and because i have a lot of work to do, please (!!) would you take care of it? You now, give the seed water, ... , that it will grow an bring fruits? Please, would you be so kind?" And for me it looks like, you said "yes,...", and he is now very happy, because it seems, you do his job very very good.
Please pray about this issiue and talk to your FOC. Or are you afraid about the seed?
I remember very well how I was when I was 14 years old (after all, that was only 4-5 years ago ;) )
anyways, I won't analyze your personality but I will give you a brief description of how I and most 14 year olds are...
I thought I knew everything, I was stubborn and didn't take advice from others especially not when they did the "I'm older than you and more experienced" thing, that I hated, it actually drove me to more stubborness and arrogance
So I will tell you this, if you think you know better than all the people who posted on this forum, many of them church servants and all of them wonderful people, then it's your choice, go kiss and enjoy yourself, but know this, when people say "listen to me, because I'm older and I have more experience" it's not always for nothing and they are NOT always wrong, because sometimes we are in danger but we can't see it, only someone who has been there before can discern...
We've all been teenagers (some still are), and we all of us agree that kissing, even if not an actual sin, is not wanted..
The point of christian life is not to have a list of sins and not commit them in fear of God's wrath, the point is to seek the things which please God and try to do those out of love for our Saviour... and I'm pretty sure kissing is not one of those things...
God bless you
Please pray for my weakness
may God open all of our ears and hearts so we may listen to one another's advice
i want to answer instead of Hos erof: You can lose your eternal life with Jesus.
Satan, or one of his supporter said to you: "Look, i will give you now this seed (the thought to kiss a girl). i will now put it into you, and because i have a lot of work to do, please (!!) would you take care of it? You now, give the seed water, ... , that it will grow an bring fruits? Please, would you be so kind?" And for me it looks like, you said "yes,...", and he is now very happy, because it seems, you do his job very very good.
Please pray about this issiue and talk to your FOC. Or are you afraid about the seed?
Thanks mariaat, great post.
Christianlover,
you make the wrong assumption that purity has a strict border. Once u pass the border, ur not pure anymore. This is simply wrong. U can't say, I didnt have sex, so i'm a virgin and i'm good. No, being a virgin physically doesn't mean anything if you're an adulterer in thoughts or looks (or other actions besides having sex). Christ told us to be pure in heart, senses, thoughts, spirit, body everything. If looking at a woman in a lustfull way is considered adultery, then why you think so lightly of kissing. Purity is a way of life, and kissing in the wrong context is not purity. You may argue till next year, but a sin is a sin. You're either persuing purity, or your heading the wrong way.
And yes, kissing is part of your sexuality (a gift from God).
Please dont attack me, I am just trying to help. I am not answering your question, I am going to let abouna do that for you.
http://www.orthodoxsermons.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=152&Itemid=26
its called "The problem of lust"
Please keep me and my many weaknesses in your prayers
-your sister in Christ
One of the questions asked to him was, is it ok to go to nightclubs?
His answer was very simple, "Would you take Jesus in there with you?"
This was ispiring to me till that day. When ever I run into an obstocle like that, I would simply ask myself: "WOULD JESUS DO THAT?".
Please pray for me.