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OCA?
After listening to the illumned heart on Ancient faith radio i am wondering what is the issue with the OCA? and what is the Coptic stance?
the interview is here http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart
NESS<><
the interview is here http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart
NESS<><
Comments
NESS<><
http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/frederica/a_visit_with_a_coptic_monk/
it is amazing Glory be to God
i have just been v impressed by this interview from the same website, from April this year. its an explaination of some of the renewing work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the orthodox Christian, by father michael harper from the antiochian church in the uk.
i listened to it because i heard about this priest before, he became orthodox more than 10 years ago from being anglican (episcopalian). i never heard him speak before, i wonder what everyone thinks of it?
http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/podup/illuminedheart/a_journey_from_canterbury_to_antioch
which interview exactly were you listening to ness55? your link goes to several interviews.
are there some problems in the orthodox church in america?
if so, we should pray for them.
After listening to the illumned heart on Ancient faith radio i am wondering what is the issue with the OCA? and what is the Coptic stance?
the interview is here http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart
NESS<><
I'm not sure which interview you're talking about but if you're refering to what is going on in the Eastern Orthodox world at large, and the idea of "an American Church" it's a very complex issue. There are a couple of websites out there that explain what's going on, but I don't know if I should post them here because some people might be really shocked about what's being said. (if I wasn't so new at posting here I'd be more comfortable)
I actually think it's important for my OO brethren to understand what's going on, but it's so complex and convoluted......Basically the Patriarchate of Constantinople doesn't recognize the OCA as a self governing body because the E.P. hasn't recognized it as a self governing body. :) No it' doesn't make sense, but that's the most polite way I can put it without causing offense to any of my EO brethren who might be Constantinopolitan loyalists. :)
It's really a LOT more in depth than that, and really comes down to ethnicity vs being Orthodox and how that is to be balanced out. Some go to the extremes on both sides, and the E.P. tends to take the view one must become a Hellenist to be fully Orthodox. The OCA feels that is nonsense and so the battle lines are drawn. It's a sad, sad state in the EO world right now, and has SEVERELY challenged my faith. ironically it's boiling down to the Council of Chalcedon and canon 28 of that council, how ironic of all councils, it would be that one that would once again be stirring up problems in Eastern Christianity.
if this is not what you were asking about I apologize for mixing up topics.......
edited to add for full disclosure, I'm a member of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (usually abbreviated GOA) which is under the E.P. so I'm NOT speaking from the outside in, but the inside out on this issue, as I see it and as it has affected me personally)
and welcome to our website, we (the majority oriental orthodox) love to hear from and share with eastern orthodox and other Christians and to learn from each other.
we will pray for this problem.
hey maybe if we pray for the eccumenical partriarch in our churches, he will be impressed and happier with wider church unity ;)
i think we should all build on the joint statement of Christology of the geneva meeting of 1990 and other efforts to greater unity and remember that He that is in us is greater than he that is in the world.
i might check out an eastern orthodox church on sunday, if anyone else is interested, i will post my experience here.
:)
i think we should all build on the joint statement of Christology of the geneva meeting of 1990 and other efforts to greater unity and remember that He that is in us is greater than he that is in the world.
You know what, you're exactly right! I've become quite disillusioned with things as of late because of these politics going on in my Church, it's easy to forget the "bigger" picture, and I thank you for such simple advice to remember it's about Christ. I'd be interested in your impressions actually! :) I've been to a Coptic Church before, but it's been a few years. I hope to visit once again this summer sometime, but it's still quite a drive for me, so I usually have to get enough people together so we can car pool. I'd go much more often if one was closer though.
so i have checked out the antiochian orthodox church in london and it's really cool.
they have taken amazing steps to bringing the message of Jesus Christ to the english speaking british people. in fact, as far i as i know i was the only one who knew any arabic there! they did the liturgy of st john chrysostom, and it was not much different to a coptic service except they use different tunes for the 'Lord have mercy' and 'amen' parts (actually they use the same tunes as the british orthodox st james' liturgy) and they seemed to miss completely the 'kiss of peace'. however, they all said 'hello' to me afterwards, which was nice, and we had food together. they were mostly british with a greek an a few americans (as far as i could tell, we were a small group but i didn't check anyone's i.d!)
there was less bowing down than we do and they kiss the icons 'properly' rather than kiss their hand after touching them. i had a really long chat with the priest after, he was lovely and knew loads about church history, filling me in on greek/turkish history and answering all my many questions comprehensively. in turn i filled him in on some of our practices he didn't know, like the vigil of good friday night when we read the book of revelation (abogalemses or something like that, i don't know how to spell it) and the different ways we venerate icons. we did move on to discuss chalcedon, and no-one got beaten up or excommunicated ;)
so in summary, we worshipped God together and agreed on many things. obviously i couldn't take communion with them coz the patriarchs haven't yet come to agreement on all the saints they mutually excommunicated after chalcedon, but i, personally believe that God was present in their celebration ofthe sacred mysteries and am eagerly looking forward to the time when we can join more fully with our other orthodox brothers.
i would recommend to anyone (especially people who have been Christians for a long time, so won't be too confused by going to different churches) to visit the eastern orthodox churches and report back to us here your experiences. i think this will help us to grow together in our Lord and Saviour, while avoiding error. also those from other churches are very welcome to share their experiences with us here.
may the Holy Spirit of God guide us into all truth
hi everyone!
so i have checked out the antiochian orthodox church in london and it's really cool.
they have taken amazing steps to bringing the message of Jesus Christ to the english speaking british people. in fact, as far i as i know i was the only one who knew any arabic there! they did the liturgy of st john chrysostom, and it was not much different to a coptic service except they use different tunes for the 'Lord have mercy' and 'amen' parts (actually they use the same tunes as the british orthodox st james' liturgy) and they seemed to miss completely the 'kiss of peace'.
As far as I know, no EO do the kiss of peace for the "laity"...however priests who are in the Altar will do it, though this varies from priest to priest and jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I've never seen in done in any EO Liturgy though. When I've gone to Coptic Liturgy, the kiss of peace always is pretty fluid and none disruptive, however anytime I've been to a Catholic Church, the kiss of peace always is this massive disruption, and everyone shakes hands and begins to have a conversation.....it's like this huge "pause" in the Liturgy and I think that's why EO no longer do it. Not saying it's right or wrong, just kind of giving the reasons behind it if you were interested. Being a germ-a-phobe, I'll often venerate icons the way you do...LOL! Actually I'll kiss my fingers than touch the icon, But not always, it depends on how much icky stuff is on there (lipstick and the like)..usually I'm at Liturgy (actually Matins) way before most people so it's not a big deal most of the time.
That's good. I've found most priests that are Antiochians in particular are pretty well schooled about Chalcedon and really see us as one Church, albeit in schism from one another. Sadly a lot of Greek laity (including non greeks in the Greek Church) still refer to the OO as "monophysites" but that is changing too, because we're all getting to know each other from the bottom up as it were. I'm glad you had a good experience! I'm also glad to hear about how well things are running there with the Antiochians in England. I really didn't know they were using that much English etc... It's good to know they're making an effort to spread the Gospel and not wrapping it up and storing it in a place where only "intellectuals" or people really into "other cultures" can find it. I'm quite encouraged by that.
I hope to visit the Coptic Church again sometime this summer, and when I do, I'll post my thoughts. It's been a couple of years, but besides the magnificent experience it was as a whole, the thing I appreciate about the Coptic (and I think all OO Liturgies are this way) was that all, or most of the "priest's prayers" are done out loud. In the EO all those beautiful prayers are said "silently" or some books call them "secret prayers"...I'm talking about prayers around the consecration in particular are all done while the choir/chanters sing/chant, and I find those prayers to be the heart of the Liturgy (you only hear the actual words of institution as you probably noticed)...I'd love to see the more ancient practice restored so everyone can HEAR those prayers. I'm an Altar server so I hear them every week, but almost no one else hears them, and it's sad. So that's one thing I find I prefer in the OO Liturgy. But of course that does make it a bit longer but still.....
anyways, I'm glad you had a good worship experience, thanks for sharing.