Hi,
I really need some advice.
We had a Sunday School servant who is a doctor. He's a brilliant guy, and we all love him.
He mentioned to me, personally (i might add!) that he did abortions. His reasoning was that if he didnt do them, then someone else would, and his boss wouldnt be happy with him.
I didnt say anything, and I just listened. But, I must tell you: I was extremely disappointed.
Is it right for a Christian to do something wrong like this to appease his or her boss??
These abortions werent for rape, or for anything.. its just cases of girls getting pregnant at the wrong time in their lives by their boyfriends.
Also, do you think I should talk to him about it? I think it would be a great testimony of faith if he said "no". But, I havent yet had the chance to even talk to him properly anyway.
What would Jesus do?
Comments
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting
In Christ :)
Theophilus
Not exactly an advice to QT but something realted I found on the news. Here you go:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting
In Christ :)
Theophilus
Theo, yes... this is awful news. I heard about that.
But how can he justify doing late term abortions and be a servant in the Church also?
Actually, I revoke my first sentence. It cannot be justified.
“For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.” (John 12:42–43.)
"But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)
as a medical student, i got into trouble for not going to watch an abortion (it was part of the syllabus), and later, when working in accident and emergency, i was asked to prescibe the 'morning after pill' to a lady who had forgotten to use contraception the night before. this is a substance that stops the tiny embryo from implanting in his/her mother's womb, and so is also a type of abortion. the lady was 'unlucky' as both the doctors on duty that night shift were Christians (although not orthodox) and she had to come back the next day without having her pill prescribed. gynaecologists (dukatra amrad nisaa) get into a lot of trouble in their careers if they refuse to do abortions.
some of the Christian doctors i met, through the Christian medical fellowship, a uk organisation, told me they did perform abortions, but only on really early embryos, as they hadn't fully developed and they reasoned that perhaps the soul enters later on in development. no-one ever gave me a good theological argument for that. about half of them didn't perform abortions, and this ended the careers of 2 doctors i met.
having said that, if as Christians, we should not have an abortion (and i believe it is totally wrong), surely it is the same or worse, if we actually do it, i mean it is killing someone. so, in my opinion, someone should not have any teaching role in the church if they do that, or serve at the altar.
but i think that, qt, you should get to know this guy and the bring the subject up gently. always be sensitive when asking people to throw away their lives or their jobs ;)
i think the Christian message does demand us to ask sacrifices not only of ourselves, but also of others.
we should also look at our own lives to see if we compromise anywhere
;)
i also heard this sad news and was asking the same thing myself.
as a medical student, i got into trouble for not going to watch an abortion (it was part of the syllabus), and later, when working in accident and emergency, i was asked to prescibe the 'morning after pill' to a lady who had forgotten to use contraception the night before. this is a substance that stops the tiny embryo from implanting in his/her mother's womb, and so is also a type of abortion. the lady was 'unlucky' as both the doctors on duty that night shift were Christians (although not orthodox) and she had to come back the next day without having her pill prescribed. gynaecologists (dukatra amrad nisaa) get into a lot of trouble in their careers if they refuse to do abortions.
some of the Christian doctors i met, through the Christian medical fellowship, a uk organisation, told me they did perform abortions, but only on really early embryos, as they hadn't fully developed and they reasoned that perhaps the soul enters later on in development. no-one ever gave me a good theological argument for that. about half of them didn't perform abortions, and this ended the careers of 2 doctors i met.
having said that, if as Christians, we should not have an abortion (and i believe it is totally wrong), surely it is the same or worse, if we actually do it, i mean it is killing someone. so, in my opinion, someone should not have any teaching role in the church if they do that, or serve at the altar.
but i think that, qt, you should get to know this guy and the bring the subject up gently. always be sensitive when asking people to throw away their lives or their jobs ;)
i think the Christian message does demand us to ask sacrifices not only of ourselves, but also of others.
we should also look at our own lives to see if we compromise anywhere
;)
Mabsoota,
This is really shocking. I mean, I'm really upset about this.
These docs are justifying it by saying that the soul doesn't enter the body at the embryonic phase?
What on earth is the use of the Coptic Medical Association if all they do is get together and change wrong from right and right from wrong so that they can feel good about their jobs??
What difference are they making to society?
I'm extremely disappointed.
This is unjustifiable.
I love these docs very much, but as the person below me said - its NOT as if they are in the Army...
Mabsoota... could you ask them in the next meeting u have to explain their reasoning??
Such meetings should be used for Christian Doctors to help encourage other doctors to be Ethical in their practice of Medicine. It seems its just a get-together of highly qualified people who want to justify murder.
its a different one, and they were officially anti-abortion, although not strongly so.
i am a member of the coptic med assoc. and they are sound.
i was shocked at your post, i expected copts to be more strict than protestants and catholics.
i am not a member of the other organisation, but i know there are people there who are strongly anti-abortion, and pushing that view. the group is also anti-euthanasia, and members have been v active in uk parliament to oppose laws that allow the ending of the life of very sick people.
Thanks for helping clear the distinction. Everyone seems to be a doctor in the Coptic Church in the UK. There are so many medical societies.
Anyway.. i think the young generation medics are more into standing up for righteouesness sake.. the older docs seem a bit more "politically correct"
What should I tell him? He's a really HUGE figure in our Community..
What would Jesus do?
I'm sorry to say up front that I don't exactly have an answer as to what you should do, but I do have a few thoughts you may want to consider.
Two things we can invariably do is pray and love. Aside from that, you may want to entertain the possibility that if you don't know what to say it may be that God hasn't given you the words and therefore it is not your charge to say anything. Or maybe you will be given the words when the time is right.
George
My father is also an OB/GYN and he chooses not to do abortions.
This is the tough road for your servant, he might have to start his own practice or search to find one that allows him to choose, but if his boss won't allow him to stop doing them, then he has no moral choice but to leave
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matthew 7:13,14)
I believe that everyone should stand for what we believe in no matter what but at the same time, QT, when you are thinking about this issue, put yourself in the doctor's shoes. Maybe his boss doesnt give him a choice of what he can do and his only option is to leave for a different hospital and if you said that he is a big figure in the church then he might be afraid to lose his job and have to move to a different city, where he would start from scratch. Or maybe you dont know all the details about it.
So pray and may god gives you wisdom and understanding to be able to deal with it correctly
1. Like in war, there are some who refuse to fire their weapons, and they get other jobs in the army (such as medics, etc...), there should be the same thing for this topic... find somebody that doesn't mind doing it and let them do it...
2. Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! Luke 17:1...
I guess this kinda applies here, like Abortion will be done, but "Woe" to you if you are the one doing it ( if you do it, you are encouraging it...)
I always thought it was the same thing with cops and detectives. They kill serial killers, murders, etc... DO they not? it is part of their job. But these people deserve to be dead (do you get what i mean?) So, technically, it is not in proportion.
You should ask your FOC for advice on this one =]
GodBless
+mahraeel+
This is somewhat tough. he being a christian should try not to work in that field. because he is killing babies for no reason.
I always thought it was the same thing with cops and detectives. They kill serial killers, murders, etc... DO they not? it is part of their job. But these people deserve to be dead (do you get what i mean?) So, technically, it is not in proportion.
You should ask your FOC for advice on this one =]
GodBless
+mahraeel+
I find it really disturbing..
I think we do things that are just so wrong and we justify it through excuse and verbal gymnastics.
I cant judge, im not in his shoes. But I think abortion is wrong - and for reasons such as "I wasnt ready" and "it was with my boyfriend" do not deserve to get abortions. They should keep the baby.
+mahraeel+
I personally don't think he is doing wrong. The person who chooses to has an abortion is the wrong one. The doctor just does his business.
A liqour seller doesn't kill his customers. The customers choose to drink to their death.
The soldier's business is to defeat the enemy. The enemy chooses to make the offense.
I'm sure the bible has the answer for this one somewhere. It always does people.
why don't you ask him why he thinks its ok? If he is the figure you say he is, he must have an answer. I suggest you talk to him without any opinion on the matter. Just understand the information he provides.
I personally don't think he is doing wrong. The person who chooses to has an abortion is the wrong one. The doctor just does his business.
A liqour seller doesn't kill his customers. The customers choose to drink to their death.
The soldier's business is to defeat the enemy. The enemy chooses to make the offense.
I'm sure the bible has the answer for this one somewhere. It always does people.
that would be like saying that "i just gassed the jews but i didnt make the actual decision to exterminate them." he must take responsiblity for his actions and in order to be forgiven he must, and hopefully did, repent. im sorry and no offense to you but your statement is beyond absurd.
Hi,
I really need some advice.
We had a Sunday School servant who is a doctor. He's a brilliant guy, and we all love him.
He mentioned to me, personally (i might add!) that he did abortions. His reasoning was that if he didnt do them, then someone else would, and his boss wouldnt be happy with him.
I didnt say anything, and I just listened. But, I must tell you: I was extremely disappointed.
Is it right for a Christian to do something wrong like this to appease his or her boss??
These abortions werent for rape, or for anything.. its just cases of girls getting pregnant at the wrong time in their lives by their boyfriends.
Also, do you think I should talk to him about it? I think it would be a great testimony of faith if he said "no". But, I havent yet had the chance to even talk to him properly anyway.
What would Jesus do?
if these teenagers didnt have abortions they might go waste their lives, try to kill the foetus themselves by self harm or abuse the newborn baby as it is all over the news about child abuse. otherwise they might neglect the child and it is highly likely these children will not have good lives at all. if someone here is going to say abortion is wrong..then are you prepared to take on these kids and raise them up? are you going to support them financially?
what are we supposed to do? isnt it better for doctors to at least do the procedure professionally instead of backstreet stuff that still happen?
someone tell me if YOU (a girl) even if you're married but not planning to have children yet and got pregnant and you are aware you are not ready to support them and what is you're still studying or whatever? keeping the baby can destroy your future and your dreams and can lead to the break up of a marriage if the partner isnt ready yet!
by the way i am NOT speaking from experience, im just putting myself in other people's shoes and trying to be honest rather than logical because i am very sure that a lot of people say things but when it comes to it, their decisions come from a different planet altogether!
if these teenagers didnt have abortions they might go waste their lives, try to kill the foetus themselves by self harm or abuse the newborn baby as it is all over the news about child abuse.
the devaluation of the life of a child starts when we think it's ok to kill it soon after conception.