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Psalm150 Feast of the Cross
Hi I was wondering if anyone can help me please. Im a deacon from Manchester Church in England. With regards to the feast of the cross I have the old book by Albeir and in it it states in arabic that for psalm 150 for the Feast of the Cross there is no "marad" i.e. No chorus. However, on the website for Ibrahim ayad (www.ibrahimayad.com)there is a section where he teaches hymns on the website and he teaches the psalm 150 for both Palm Sunday and Feast of the cross (i.e. sha3anin way) and he teaches it in the long sha3anin way and he includes a "marad" for the feast of the cross which is "isos piekhristos epshiri emefnoti feetav ashf eh pestavros". I am very confused which is the correct way, if anyone knows please let me know. Also if anyone can tell me where I can find a full recording of Psalm 150 of the feast of the cross then that would be great, especially if its for mu3aleem Gad Lewis.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Comments
maybe this could be a good link...but im not sure..
Ukh im so confused.
I would advise you to stick with Albeir's book as primary reference. Anyone can record something and claim that one COULD say it that way, but something that is written and published in book is supposed to be correct, unless the entire book is wrong, which I doubt.
There are other published books which say that you should chant the response to Psalm 150 on the Feast of the Cross. In our church in London, we've been leaving out the response for the last 2 years (using Albair's book as our reference). I've always been a bit skeptical of Albair's book, but he says that all the rites covered in his book are approved by the Holy Synod, which is good enough for me. I'd like to know the exact reasoning behind the decision to leave out the response, I don't understand the reasoning to be honest.
As for your situation Lourence, you wouldn't be considered "wrong" if you followed any of these practices, as they are all supported by (in my opinion) very reliable sources. Best thing to do would be to agree on a single way of saying it with the deacons in your church.
God bless,
Matthew
I like Matt's response, either way you sing it its supported by very reputable sources(i don't account albeir as one however). I'm more or less talking about the older cantors who some did put a response and others didn't. Stick with one and you should be fine ;)
I find this really interesting, and it's something i've noticed among quite a few people. Why don't people consider Albair as a reputable source? I'm VERY curious to know!
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=8369.msg106565#msg106565 date=1253977330]
I like Matt's response, either way you sing it its supported by very reputable sources(i don't account albeir as one however). I'm more or less talking about the older cantors who some did put a response and others didn't. Stick with one and you should be fine ;)
I find this really interesting, and it's something i've noticed among quite a few people. Why don't people consider Albair as a reputable source? I'm VERY curious to know!
I am also very curious to know
As for Mr. Wagdi's choice, he just choose that response because it refers more towards the holy Cross. You can pm him yourself and he can explain to you. PLEASE pm him if you have any questions about his recording....give him chance to make you understand reasons and every source he have for his recordings.
Not everything we do in church the Synod really approves. I don't mean to disregard their manner or anything. It's just; the way it works is that there is something that needs to be reviewed or something that people started to do and we maybe think it's wrong. that specific case is presented to the Synod, a bishop in general, and his grace presented to the full Synod and then they investigate. Their ruling after is unanimous.
For all of you that are "VERY curious to know!" about Albair, It's just a specific acceptance of one person....would you really mind others' opinions...i hope not.
For example, i rather trust older cantors and teachings...if not info there, i used the best i have. For example books, i like to use m.Farag's and then nahdet el-kanayes. if not into those, i go to the specific book of the rite. Then is nothing else, Albair's book is there.
Albair himself does this in his teachings and rendering of hymns:
"This collection includes chants by Cantor Mikhail El-Batanouny, the second generation of cantors after him, as well as other chanters. Taking Cantor Mikhail as our root source, we attempt to single out the renditions of hymns that he has handed down to our Church, then receive those hymns and record them."
(http://copticheritage.org/PagEd+index-page_id-806.phtml)
I would rather go back to the sources also.
Oh and just for the record we said the Psalm 150 response in our church today: [coptic]I=y=c P=,=c `pSyri `m`V]@ vy`etauasf `epi`ctauroc. [/coptic] I think I may be becoming slightly more critical of Albair now :P
We used the same response. I thought the psalm response was approved off by the H. Synod (was it included in Albair's new book?) and Psalm 150 always follows the same line sort off. At least in all other occasions I can think of at this moment. The "popular" response mentioned in this thread focuses on Christ and the specific feast. I don't see the problem to be honest.
No I don't see any problem either, like I said before...all the methods have a reputable source, so I wouldn't call any of them "wrong" personally. I don't know if the response was included in the new book or not, but according to the rites page on the website the response shouldn't be chanted.
To be honest, I think I'm starting to become lightly over-obsessed with such a small detail that I'm losing sight of what this feast is actually all about. Let's just enjoy the blessings of the feast for now :D
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=8369.msg106565#msg106565 date=1253977330]
I like Matt's response, either way you sing it its supported by very reputable sources(i don't account albeir as one however). I'm more or less talking about the older cantors who some did put a response and others didn't. Stick with one and you should be fine ;)
Well, for me personally as you all have said, I think its better to go to older sources as best as possible. I think I misspoke when I said I don't take Albeir as a reputable source. I don't use him as my main source personally, not because I discredit his work or the HCOC at all, but because I like to go to older sources. I have his second addition book but when there isn't a consensus on a certain rite I like to go back to the oldest or just follow what my lead deacon does. Sorry if it sounded like I was against Albeir.
I find this really interesting, and it's something i've noticed among quite a few people. Why don't people consider Albair as a reputable source? I'm VERY curious to know!
HEy guys in our church we used "shere nak o pistavros fee etavesh pashois erof" as the refrain for our psalm 150 and i dont remember exactly where we got it but it may be the mfarag book or albeir book
Nope. No book have a response for the feast.
I noticed many deacons ask the same question over and over in Canada, US, England, Egypt, on this website, tasbeha.org..., which means that there is confusion in this area. In fact, they have all the right to be confused because this Feast has gone through a lot of changes. The Holy Synod decided on the psalm response, but didn't mention any thing about a refrain for psalm 150. This was before I published the 2nd edition of the Deacon's Service book. This implies that there shouldn't be one since the original teaching is that there is no refrain for psalm 150 for the feasts of the Cross, which cantor Faheem Girgis stated clearly in his recordings. This is not the end of the story. Just last year, after I published the book, the Rites Committee of the Holy Synod decided to add the refrain to psalm 150. I added it to the 3rd edition, which is still not out yet (not any time soon). The refrain is "Isoos PiKhristos Epsheery EmEfnooty fie Etav Ashf e pistavrous". So, to make the long story short, according to the current rite, there is a refrain to psalm 150 for the feasts of the Cross. I hope this clears things up