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Doubts about Bible versions

rpmrpm
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Hi everyone,
    I wonder if there has there has been a discussion here before on the best / most appropriate Bible translation for use by Orthodox Christians? If not, would you be willing to share your thoughts.

    Till recently, I used to think a Bible is a Bible is a Bible and that the differences in the translations didn't mean much. However, the other day, I came across an NRSV version which contains the Deutero-canonical books specially for Catholics . The versions I have with me(NIV,NLT,Amplified, Good News, KJV) have inputs from various Protestant denominations. I am told that the absence of the Deuterocanonical books in these versions suggests tampering with and and moving away from the original Septuagint. That makes me a little apprehensive about continuing to use them.

I am also aware that the Eastern Orthodox Church has brought out an Orthodox Study Bible - but haven't come across any Oriental head of church endorsing its use.

    What, in your view would be the most appropriate version to use?  Or is it just a matter of personal preference. Appreciate your views on this.


GBU,
rpm

Comments

  • jojo204
    +i use the KJV version..because it is translated to, i reckon, the most accurate translation.........ALSO because: go to the following link: http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/articles/bible/nkjv.pdf

    also...maybe a bishop or the Pope has probably made a comment about this......
  • sodr2sodr2
    [quote author=+iloveJesus link=topic=8487.msg107663#msg107663 date=1257933261]
    +i use the KJV version..because it is translated to, i reckon, the most accurate translation.........ALSO because: go to the following link: http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/articles/bible/nkjv.pdf

    also...maybe a bishop or the Pope has probably made a comment about this......

    i use the NKJV... its the KJV but in better english  8)

    uh oh...just saw ur link lol
  • mabsootamabsoota
    the orthodox study Bible is excellent, the only risk is that you can't stop reading it!
    I know some priests (coptic) who have it and they also recommend it, and they list some orthodox denominations on the inside back cover, which includes coptic alongside eastern orthodox denominations  :D  :)
    one of the editors was bishop kallistos ware of the greek orthodox church in britain; he is a british man who became orthodox in the 1970's (i think, or even before) and is a very sound bishop and good preacher.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    H.H. recommends to use NKJV for general use. Since we are speaking about this topic, fortunately Fr Abraam Sleman discussed these issues with our church servant in the last 2 weeks. Here are the videos:

    Exploring Bible Translations (1) 
    Exploring Bible Translations (2)

    To me, i have been waiting for these 2 lectures for long time. Many people are for "some reason" are against using NKJV and SVD (Smith Van Dyke) in arabic.....more specifically on how we formated all the readings of our church Pascha Book.
  • AikotiEnsokAikotiEnsok
    The Orthodox Study Bible is the way to go. if you can't get a hold of one, then go for the NKJV, its the next best thing.

    good luck and god bless!!

    chris
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I would suggest that for personal reading of the Bible then whichever one is easiest to read is the best.

    But for Bible study the problem with all the versions mentioned is that they do not use the Old Testament of the Orthodox Church, which is the Septuagint. There are also issues with some of the translations because they are produced by Protestants with a particular mindset.

    We should read the Bible with the teachings of the Church in mind. If we do this then the exact translation we use is not quite so critical. Sometimes I even read a paraphrase just to get a different view of a passage I know well. I try to use commentaries like the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture which uses excerpts from the writings of the Fathers. Or the Catena by Aquinas which does the same for the Gospels.

    I am not sure that for personal reading any version is too problematic, as long as we do not start deciding that we can read the Bible and then decide what the Christian Faith means on our own. That seems to me to be the danger from personal Bible study. If we read and study humbly and WITH the Church then we will not fall into error.

    Father Peter
  • IoannesIoannes
    I personally like the Interlinear Bible In Hebrew, Greek, and above the Hebrew and Greek is a literal word for word English translation. But as long as we are cross referencing with the church fathers and what not then we should be ok, just stay away from the New World Translation. I only use that when the Jehovah Witness come to my door.
  • the_leastthe_least
    I use the orthodox study bible and i love it.

    I have a question though, is it ok to read the Bible without having something from the church fathers to read with it. I think i reckon Anba Raphael saying once that this is dangerous since we start to interpret things in our own manner and perspective and not what the church fathers taught us. The commentary in the orthodox study Bible only explains very little. The Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture is just too much (it's more like a reference thing and not a daily reading thing) and Fr. Tadros Malaty's books i can't find them all in English (if you know where i can find them tell me). What do you guys do and what do you recommend?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    the_least, the Bible is always suitable for spiritual reflection, and as we mature in our faith we are more likely to reflect in a manner which is consistent with the teaching of the Church and the wider meaning and substance of Scripture.

    If I am reading a passage from the Gospels there is always meat there for those seeking nourishment. We do not need to dig so deeply that we are likely to go astray. If I read the Parable of the Talents then I am immediately reminded that I must use the time and energy God has given me wisely and to His glory. etc etc. These are not dangerous reflections.

    But as we study with a more theological attitude then it is always necessary to have one hand on the Bible and the other on the teachings of our Fathers. Our own priests and bishops can also be a useful mentor in this regard.

    A quick google would show any of us that there are Protestant groups who will take a verse from Scripture and make it mean whatever they want. We must avoid this temptation, of setting ourselves up as the measure of the meaning of Scripture. The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit in the Church, and the Church in a sense produced the Bible rather than the Bible producing the Church. Therefore when we study more complex matters we must make sure that we are guided in our studies.

    But for our general spiritual reading what matters more is that we have a foundation of understanding the teaching and spiritual tradition of the Church so that our reflections are naturally consistent with the Apostolic teaching. There is a need for more spiritual Bible commentaries in English within the Coptic Church - I mean not those which are very detailed commentaries dealing with every word in Greek and Hebrew - which can accurately describe the meaning of the Scripture in accordance with our Faith but also be easily usuable in a daily, personal prayer type of way.

    Father Peter
  • aidanaidan
    Father , what about the gospel commentaries of St Theophylact?
    Or for that matter any Chalcedonian commentattor. What are your views? I personally love St Joihn's commentary by St Theophylact..
  • rpmrpm
    Thanks a lot to Fr.Peter and all of you for your suggestions.

    Recently some relatives (Pentecostal) sent me a rather large MacArthur Study Bible and "What the Bible is all about?" by Henrietta Mears.

    Just wondering if I should read these or stick with our Orthodox resources. I guess Fr.Peter could give us his advice.

    GBU,
    rpm

  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Dear Aidan

    I have the volume of Blessed Theophylact on St Mark on my table here now. My father (Dad) has used them for many years, and when the volume of St John was produced I bought him the hardback set of the Gospel Commentaries.

    As with any commentaries we need to read always with discretion, I don't mean that because I have found anything controversial in those of Blessed Theophylact, but even if we read St John Chrysostom and find something confusing we need to compare it with other Orthodox writers and speak to our Fathers and Bishops rather than assuming we should decide more confusing matters for ourself.

    RPM, I would be very hesitant in suggesting that an Orthodox person studies any Pentecostal material, unless that person in mature in their faith and able to read as a matter of comparative theology. There will be very many things in such books which are not Orthodox and which will confuse and even deceive an Orthodox who is not very careful. I would always recommend Orthodox materials first. Then Chalcedonian materials which are not to do with Christology. I would avoid all Protestant materials unless the person is mature in their faith and has the guidance of their priest.

    Father Peter
  • copticmark
    father Peter, u are 100% correct in yr advice about reading the bible and using certain resources. I just wants to add 1 comment here. Unfortunatley our church (Copt orthodox church) did not issue any verssion to be called coptic orthodox bible. Even the arabic one we used in Egypt and some of us is still using, is originally a protestant transaltion by the bible societ (Gameya el ketab el mokadass) of the middle east.
    The only one you can consider a coptic verssion is the katamaress book (Daily annual readings) as well as the occasions readings, and as u know it does not have all the bible.
    The only translation that was done by a bishop from our church was a translation for the Gospels (i think matthew and mark) by the late bishop Gregorious, and for unknown reasons even this translation did not pick up among the copts.
    However your advice on how to read is a very good advice and I hope every one can follow it
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    There is the translation of the New Testament from the ancient Coptic manuscripts which is available on archive.org. I am presently looking at republishing them in the Oriental Orthodox Library series.

    One of the projects I have on the go at the moment is an Orthodox Commentary on the Epistle to the Philippians. I am looking through the Coptic edition of this short but inspiring book - there is an English translation and full scholarly notes. I am wondering whether this is the possible basis for an authorised English translation of the New Testament.

    Here is a link to the Gospels of St Matthew and St Mark ....

    http://www.archive.org/details/copticversionofn01horn

    What I am trying to do with the Epistle to the Philippians is produce something that works at several levels. It will draw on existing Orthodox commentary - such as the series of homilies by St John Chrysostom, and also the references to the text in other Orthodox writers, and the commentary will be rooted in an Orthodox theological and spiritual framework. I am planning to have two levels of commentary for each verse and passage. One will be shorter and more reflective, for those who want a guide to their reflection, while in an extended section below each reflection there will be more detailed commentary drawing on history, theology, hagiography etc and on the writings of other Orthodox, for those who are engaged in a more studious study of the Epistle. 

    Father Peter
  • mabsootamabsoota
    sounds great, keep us posted  :)
  • bkovacsbkovacs
    [quote author=minagir link=topic=8487.msg107673#msg107673 date=1257966563]
    H.H. recommends to use NKJV for general use. Since we are speaking about this topic, fortunately Fr Abraam Sleman discussed these issues with our church servant in the last 2 weeks. Here are the videos:

    Exploring Bible Translations (1) 
    Exploring Bible Translations (2)

    To me, i have been waiting for these 2 lectures for long time. Many people are for "some reason" are against using NKJV and SVD (Smith Van Dyke) in arabic.....more specifically on how we formated all the readings of our church Pascha Book.



    These were great videos to watch. One thing that Fr Sleman did not mentioned though was that most Bibles do not include the complete canon of scripture. So your technically not getting the complete Bible. That's why I personally prefer either the RSV (Oxford Annotated w/Deutercanonicals or RSV Catholic Edition). Also I would add the Douay Rheims as an excellent translation (and you get the deutercanonicals) as well as the Orthodox Study Bible.  Glad to be here!.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=bkovacs link=topic=8487.msg108617#msg108617 date=1261506412]
    These were great videos to watch. One thing that Fr Sleman did not mentioned though was that most Bibles do not include the complete canon of scripture. So your technically not getting the complete Bible. That's why I personally prefer either the RSV (Oxford Annotated w/Deutercanonicals or RSV Catholic Edition). Also I would add the Douay Rheims as an excellent translation (and you get the deutercanonicals) as well as the Orthodox Study Bible.  Glad to be here!.


    it's good to hear that you like the lectures. Fr. Abraam is one of the great scholars out there in Bible interpretations.

    You have a good point considering Bible translations. But i wouldn't fully accept a book just because it's "complete" of all the Books. I don't think abouna mentioned it because it would of confused people a little and that would stray their minds from the point of the lecture.
  • Unknown
    The NKJV is certainly a decent translation for English.  For the Septuagint (OT), I would recommend the SAAS version.  These two are the versions used in the Orthodox Study Bible, which is available at Conciliar Press and ChristianBook.com at a very reasonable (ie: VERY low) price.  The notes are Orthodox, which is desirable and safe for all Orthodox Christians, from Antioch to America to Alexandria. 

    Stay away from the Douay-Rheims, as it is terribly inaccurate, not to mention the Romish interpretation from the Latin Vulgate (which, although is a nice read, is also a terribly inaccurate translation).  Also, stay away from the New International Version, New Living Translation, New American Bible, or any other Protestant translation, save the King James and New King James.  The only other safe version would have to the Revised Standard Version.  HH Shenouda III has recommended the NKJV for English, so I would use that, but for branching out, avoid going beyond the RSV as the translations are oftentimes sketchy at best. 

    This is, at least, what was recommended to me by several EO priests, and one Coptic Heiromonk. 
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