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am i Bad chrristian because
i believe in abortion, i'm for gay rights, and things like that, i know our church is against them but does it make me a bad christian for supporting them?
Comments
there is a difference between thinking that gays should have equal human rights (as yes, they happen to be human!)
and thinking that women should have the right to kill their infants, there is a huge difference in fact, for supporting abortion in my eyes is giving someone the right to take away someone else's (the child) right to life, whereas supporting gay rights will only affect adult people who make their own decisions... I for one believe that gays, like jews, christians, atheists, all people should have equal rights in that there should be no differentiation between them for no good reason..(which would constitute discrimination)
I'm not saying there should be no differentiation between people, there has to be, but it has to have good reason... (an example: if I was making a movie about slavery in USA and I was casting people and said that the leading role is for a black person, this is differentiation, but it's not discrimination as I have a good reason to do so as slaves where of African descent and thus the actor has to look a certain way to seem believable...)
About abortion, many say: it's being modern, progressive, pro-choice etc. and one could argue about when the embryo is considered a human being... but think about this, even if the baby is only 'a human' when he is 3 months old, when you abort the child, you kill something that would have become a human at some time without your intervention... One could argue also that abortion is going to happen regardless, so it would be safer if we legalize it to make it safer than illegal clinics, but then we could argue for the legalization of organ trafficing so that it wouldn't happen illegally anymore.. this of course is ridiculous
So i would say: review your opinions, why do you support abortion? why do you support gay rights? Is it because that's the politically correct position nowadays? is it truly what you think? have you listened to pro and contra arguments to be able to form an opinion?
I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that you should use your brain and think and question things before taking a stance on any major issue like that...
As they were enjoying themselves, suddenly certain men of the city, [glow=red,2,300]perverted men[/glow], surrounded the house and beat on the door. They spoke to the master of the house, the old man, saying, “Bring out the man who came to your house, [glow=red,2,300]that we may know him carnally![/glow]”
(Judges 19:22)
As for abortion, thats just a fancy word for baby killing. Do you want to be a baby killer? Baby killing, or "abortion", is murder.
‘You shall not murder. (Deuteronomy 5:17)
16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, [glow=red,2,300]hands that shed innocent blood[/glow], (Proverbs 6:16-17)
hope that helped :) god bless!
chris
should we be their friends and let them see our way of living? yes.
should they adopt kids? i don't think so, there are lots of studies (mostly not done by Christians) that show this causes disadvantages to the child's well-being.
can we tell people who are not Christian how to behave? well, we can make suggestions, but if they don't have access to the God who changes lives, how can they (and why would they want to) live like Christians?
within the church, things are different, we can and should tell people what behaviour is part of Christian life. so if someone is in a gay relationship or thinks they might be gay, the Bible has a lot to offer. not just by saying it's not part of God's plan (nor is sleeping with your partner if you are straight and not married) but by explaining to people why this is and showing them that God can fulfill all their needs. what any gay or straight person needs is pure love that only God can give and a family of good Christian friends who weep with those who weep and celebrate with those who celebrate, giving a hug, a word of advice, a sign of acceptance, when it is needed.
and as for abortion, it only seems normal to those living in fairly developed countries in the last century, your thinking has been affected by the secular media, it is not normal, and was never permitted in the Bible.
so does that make you a 'bad Christian'? well, this concept also doesn't occur in the Bible, we are all sinners and none of us are worthy of the great price God paid for us, so, according to the Bible we are all in the same category. what you should ask is 'how can i follow God more closely?' right now you think your opinions will block you from your relationship with God, but this is the wrong focus.
ignore your opinions for the time being and focus on prayer, reading the Bible and changing your character to be more like God, asking Him to give you the Holy Spirit whose fruit (evidence that He is in you) is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control. spend time with other Christians whose live exhibit this fruit and be willing to offer your life as a sacrifice for God.
do this for 7 or 8 weeks, and then see if your opinions have changed a little. however the evidence that you are closer to God will be the fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life and a desire to follow Him and His commands no matter what it may cost you.
ps this is difficult, i'm not there yet either! ;)
As Christ said, "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth." Revelations 3:15-16
In my opinion, yes, if you love what God hates,then there is little reason to call yourself a christian. If you think about being a good christian,then you are authomatically thinking about the commandments that God laid for us.You can not claim to be his servant,if you happen to support something that He finds detestable.
Giving rights to Gay is ,it seems to me, tantamount to giving Satan the right of parole after he spent time in Hell.
Another point to think is, if the proponents of Gay,of course, under the mantra of 'equal rights' say Abortion is the killing of life, then a community of 50 people where 100% of them are sodomites equals to eradicating procreation and therefore life altogether. Thus, I see no difference.Anything that goes contrary to nature and God's law should not be tolerated by advocating tolerance.I am afraid, some of us are being corrupted by some amoral western values.
Giving rights to Gay is ,it seems to me, tantamount to giving Satan the right of parole after he spent time in Hell.
It is sad to see that you would like to see gays being treated as animals (without rights), don't forget that homosexuality is against God's will just as any sin is, and he who is free from sin, let him cast the first stone...
I don't know if you understand what you're saying here with the full implications it brings with it, not giving gays equal human rights means they have no right to life, no right to freedom of expression, no right to privacy, no right to live in a house, no right to own goods, so this means that anyone can go on and kill gays, hunt them out of their lands, take away their property (hundreds of years ago people had similar ideas about africans, I think it is known as slavery...) I am afraid and terribly saddened tht some of us are being influenced by extremist right-wing propaganda which is hateful and intolerant and far from christian in my opinion
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=8535.msg108009#msg108009 date=1259461115]
Another point to think is, if the proponents of Gay,of course, under the mantra of 'equal rights' say Abortion is the killing of life, then a community of 50 people where 100% of them are sodomites equals to eradicating procreation and therefore life altogether. Thus, I see no difference.Anything that goes contrary to nature and God's law should not be tolerated by advocating tolerance.I am afraid, some of us are being corrupted by some amoral western values.
In a community of 50 people where 100% have sworn an oath of virginity, there will be no procreation either... in fact any couple that decides not to have children won't procreate... Abortion is when already existing life is being destroyed by someone else, how can you eqate that with giving gays equal human rights? Are gays not humans like you and me in your opinion?
Mozes, I agree with you that many are influenced by amoral western values, but this goes both ways, because extremist right and maybe I'll call it: extremist liberal ideas can both be amoral, we need to think for ourselves, and alsways ask God for guidance whilde doing so...
i believe in abortion, i'm for gay rights, and things like that, i know our church is against them but does it make me a bad christian for supporting them?
dude....abortion?!?!?!??!??!?!?!?!?!? MURDER?!?!?!?!
gay rights, im on the fence with that, but ABORTION?!?!? do you even know what that is??
ABORTION?!?!?!? you are a very bad man dont expect AAAAAAAAANYTHING from santa clause
i believe in abortion, i'm for gay rights, and things like that, i know our church is against them but does it make me a bad christian for supporting them?
"You are not even a Christian" - this was the answer for our spiritual guide when I asked them your question.
I hope that helps u.
this is nothing personal to those who answered like they did, it's important to have strong views about your faith but abanoub2000 is a real guy with feelings, lets take it easy..
I believe that gay people can get married legally, who are we to tell them just because we are heterosexual we can tell them what they can and cant do? I have many gay friends in school and they are just like me (except for the gay thing) so what makes me more superior to him or her?
As for abortion it's not killing a human it's an embryo, it's not born it hasn't breathed! I never thought of it as killing as a human, i think of it as one less child in an orphanage or on the street! If a parent is going for an abortion they obviously know that they can't handle the responsibility of a child! But if it was outlawed they'd try to support the child he'd have a horrible life and he'd financially and emotionally ruin his parents lives!
if you are not sure that it is better, discuss this with some older and wiser Christians and ask them to explain their opinions. about abortion, read psalm 139 (138) 'oh Lord you have searched me and know me' and think about how God feels about the unborn child; see verse 13.
even if you regard it as a 'thing', not a 'person', it is something God loves, it is wrong to destroy something God loves.
also try some of the things i suggested earlier, like studying the Bible more, this will bring peace to your spirit so that you understand better what we are saying.
may God guide us all.
I believe that gay people can get married legally, who are we to tell them just because we are heterosexual we can tell them what they can and cant do? I have many gay friends in school and they are just like me (except for the gay thing) so what makes me more superior to him or her?
Might as well legalize murder for people who are addicted to that. Sin is convenient, isn't it? My initial response to "one less child in an orphanage": Wow....
Everything is God's will.
i believe in abortion, i'm for gay rights, and things like that, i know our church is against them but does it make me a bad christian for supporting them?
Personally, I do think it 'makes u a bad christian' 4 supporting an abomination like 'gay rights'!
Still, u have plenty of company! I think I am bad 4 my sins that go against GODS Commandments. We might as well not even call ourselves Orthodox Christians if we are going to follow the teachings of pagans and heretical teachers! Todays readings speaks of how people will have 'itching ears' and follow doctrines contrary to GODS! We have to be very careful! Satan is forever trying to corrupt; and make us lose our salvation in Christ!!
I read in an earlier post that abortion is allowed sometimes in the case of rape or circumstances like that. I think this is a totally different issue than 'gay rights'.
Have u ever read Psalm 136 (137):8-9?
Thanks and Praise to our ever merciful GOD for these times of fasting and prayer so we can reconcile ourselves to HIM!!!
I hope and pray we can find success in our reconciliation and retain, regain our salvation in Christ the Lord; so we can let the wretched Babylon and her sinful ways go and keep our heads turned forward towards the prize and not turn back like Lots wife.
i believe in abortion, i'm for gay rights, and things like that, i know our church is against them but does it make me a bad christian for supporting them?
You are for gay rights, people who have sinned against God but you are not for an unborn childs rights, one who is 100% innocent and hasn't sinned against God ....... something is clearly very WRONG here.
As Christians we should hate what God hates and love what God loves.
The bible strictly goes against them and so does our church...if u want me to show you some proof i can.
Believing in gay rights or abortion doesn't mean you are better than those who
practice it..but it means that you believe in the word of God, which is "living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword" Hebrews 4:12
Again...you either go all for the Bible or for none of it at all.
peace =]
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
I don't know if you understand what you're saying here with the full implications it brings with it, not giving gays equal human rights means they have no right to life, no right to freedom of expression, no right to privacy, no right to live in a house, no right to own goods, so this means that anyone can go on and kill gays, hunt them out of their lands, take away their property (hundreds of years ago people had similar ideas about africans, I think it is known as slavery...) I am afraid and terribly saddened tht some of us are being influenced by extremist right-wing propaganda which is hateful and intolerant and far from christian in my opinion.In a community of 50 people where 100% have sworn an oath of virginity, there will be no procreation either... in fact any couple that decides not to have children won't procreate... Abortion is when already existing life is being destroyed by someone else, how can you eqate that with giving gays equal human rights? Are gays not humans like you and me in your opinion?
Mozes, I agree with you that many are influenced by amoral western values, but this goes both ways, because extremist right and maybe I'll call it: extremist liberal ideas can both be amoral, we need to think for ourselves, and alsways ask God for guidance whilde doing so...
Godislove260:
If you seriously think, I am being brainwashed by the filthy propoganda of the American rightwing, then I would like to assure you, that I am not a member of their audience. In the last election, I voted for Obama and Co.
I oppose to give rights to gay, simply because that is what God commands us to do.Opposing to their rights does not mean, I am sinless or that I have to cast the first stone. I am not accusing and judgding them for their transgressions.That is not mine to do. I am merely pointing out what God says in His book.If Abanoub asks a fair and straighforward question as to whether his liberal view on the rights of gays and his support for abortion makes him a bad or a good Christian, then based on the message of Christianity, regardless of my own sins, I need to point out to him, that it is a sin to support something that is not sanctioned by the teaching of Christ.
I am christian and christianity is a way of life.It is either one is a christian and sticks to the commandments of God through the guiadince of the Holy Spirit or be the adovcate of the state and demand the implementation of evil rights. One can not be both. The ' Equal Rights' banner has its rightful definitions and limits.
Moreover, the difference between a community of 50 where all of them are gays and the community of 50 where all vow to chastity for the sake of Christ is that the former would be subject to the wrath of God like in the days of Noah and the latter would gain the favour and blessings of God and God in His wisom would never allow the extinction of the human race.
If you believe supporting the rights of gay makes one a good christian,then I would like to see a convincing arguments from a religious point of view.
well some of guys were kinda harsh... ouch
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
The gospel reading in the third watch (Agpeya) where a sinful woman weeps at the feet of Jesus indicates that she committed the crime of abortion. I am told, the keyword is 'her weeping' which is a sign of a woman who aborted .This fact is still true today. A doctor told us women who go to abortion clinics are characterized by their weeping a lot at first.
If someone else has a better explanation?
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108046#msg108046 date=1259628534]
well some of guys were kinda harsh... ouch
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
The gospel reading in the third watch (Agpeya) where a sinful woman weeps at the feet of Jesus indicates that she committed the crime of abortion. I am told, the keyword is 'her weeping' which is a sign of a woman who aborted .This fact is still true today. A doctor told us women who go to abortion clinics are characterized by their weeping a lot at first.
If someone else has a better explanation?
killing a life is not enough for you?!!!
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
Exodus 20:13-Thou shalt not kill
Genesis 9:6-Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God, He made man.
Leviticus 24:17-If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death.
psalm 139:13-16- For You formed my inward parts; you covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, and that my soul knows very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.
Godislove260:
I oppose to give rights to gay, simply because that is what God commands us to do.
I don't know where God commands us to oppose giving gays rights!!! Before you jump up with all the bibilical verses saying how being gay is against God's will, listen first please, I'm not justifying the fact of being gay, I, as a christian, know and moreover I understand why it is against God's will... BUT them being sinners doensn't mean they should not have equal human rights!! God makes the sun shine on both the sinners and the righteous. What you are saying implies that this specific kind of sinners should be treated like animals, I still am not sure that you fully understand the implications of what you are saying... If we deny gays human rights on the basis that being gay is agaisnt God's will, then we should also deny anyone who is not Christian (by word AND deed) their human rights!!! My opinion is: human rights are for humans, regardless of what they believe... I'll give you a small example: let's say a certain country exists where the leaders run the country according to their religion, and they view a certain kind of people as terrible sinners according to the teachings of that particular religion, so they discriminate against them and don't allow them to live as humans, but take away all their rights... instead of saying: religion is for God but the country is for all!
If you think that would be right for christianity to do, then it would be right also for any other relgion to do, otherwise you would be a hypocrite, and I think that also is against God's will... Peace
When we speak about the rights of homosexual people what do we mean? In one sense the whole topic of rights is a very modern one. In previous generations people had responsibilities to each other, not rights they could insist on.
When we speak of rights for gay people what do we mean? We do not usually mean the basic rights of existence. I am not aware of many people who think that those who practice homsoexuality should be locked up or killed. We usually mean that homosexuals should be free to promote their sexual practice in the public space, should be able to insist on their sexual practice being accepted even by those who consider it sin, and should be able to access all of the rights associated with the married state.
Now it seems entirely reasonable to me that all of these social rights can be challenged. In the UK if I was running a Christian hotel and wished to turn away two men who wanted to sleep together I could go to prison. Where is the right of the Christian to maintain their own principles?
So we have conflicting rights. How do we handle these? It seems to me that there is nothing wrong with discrimination when a monopoly situation is not in mind. So if I run a Christian hotel and do not wish to offer a room to a couple of men then that should be fine. Likewise if I run a homosexual hotel and do not wish to offer a room to a Christian couple that should also be fine. These are not monopolies. I can go to another hotel - the Christian hotelier will have lost some business.
Now if it is a matter of a monopoly - the local water or electricity provider for instance - then such discrimination is not fair, and doesn't really make much sense. It is not a face-to-face business transaction.
Likewise I do not believe that homosexual practice should be taught as normal in our schools, especially since this is not the majority view of the population. This does not mean that those who practice homosexual behaviour should be singled out, but neither should their behaviour be encouraged and normalised.
As to rights to marriage, I believe that there should be universal rights to assign powers of attorney and inheritance to another person - whatever the relation or gender. We have situations here in the UK where a couple of homosexuals can avoid taxes on the death of one partner after being in a 'civil partnership' for a week, while two elderly sisters who have lived and cared for each other for 80 years are unable to protect each others rights in such a way. But such legal relationships are not marriage. Marriage is universally the union of a man and woman for the purpose of supporting one another and creating a familial environment for the sake of society. A homosexual union cannot do this, it exists only for the couple involved.
I do not believe there is such a thing as homosexuality. There is homosexual practice and there are temptations. We are not defined by our temptations, but by our actions. I do not become a thief when I am tempted to steal but when I steal. No person needs to commit homosexual sin, or heterosexual sin. What happens in the privacy of a bedroom is of no interest to me - whether homosexual behaviour or heterosexual. We are all sinners.
But the promotion of homosexual behaviour is damaging to society and to those who perpetrate it, and has nothing to do with rights. When a sin becomes more possible then it becomes more prevalent. When it becomes more prevalent Satan tries to teach us that it is normal and must be accepted if we are to be modern and tolerant. We should never be tolerant of sin, even while being aware that we are sinners ourselves.
If a non-Christian person wishes to engage in homosexual behaviour in private I have few problems with that. If they wish to change society so that it accepts and encourages such behaviour as normal then I must resist. This has nothing to do at all with locking up homosexuals, or taking away their property, or throwing them out of their jobs. And it is a straw man to suggest that it does.
But it is to do with what sort of society Christians should be working to build. Tolerant, yes, especially of that which is private. But not so tolerant of public actions which directly impact on society. Any of us can be tempted into any sort of behaviour. Much of our sexuality is a matter of habit. Homosexual behaviour can become just such a habit, and becoming habitual it becomes normal - but it is not. Just as heterosexual behaviour can become normal - but is not outside of certain contexts. We have a responsibility to love those who sin, and to accept that in private there is a certain freedom to sin which is the nature of our personal responsibility before God. But if we have the opportunity to preserve the public social space from incitement to sin then it seems to me we must use it. Homosexual sin is always a choice, we should not be helping others to make such a wrong choice by the promotion of homosexual sin as a positive lifestyle choice.
Father Peter
We have situations here in the UK where a couple of homosexuals can avoid taxes on the death of one partner after being in a 'civil partnership' for a week, while two elderly sisters who have lived and cared for each other for 80 years are unable to protect each others rights in such a way. But such legal relationships are not marriage. Marriage is universally the union of a man and woman for the purpose of supporting one another and creating a familial environment for the sake of society. A homosexual union cannot do this, it exists only for the couple involved.
Father Peter
Thanks 4 the clarity Father Peter!
The rights of those 2 elderly ladies should be fought for! Forget 'gay rights'. I understand, just like GOD makes the sun rise on all, good and bad - we do not stand in the way of the ungodly, nor do we scorn them, or encourage them. We (As Orthodox Christians) have more important issues to attend to!
Hope this helps! :)
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=8535.msg108048#msg108048 date=1259634052]
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108046#msg108046 date=1259628534]
well some of guys were kinda harsh... ouch
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
The gospel reading in the third watch (Agpeya) where a sinful woman weeps at the feet of Jesus indicates that she committed the crime of abortion. I am told, the keyword is 'her weeping' which is a sign of a woman who aborted .This fact is still true today. A doctor told us women who go to abortion clinics are characterized by their weeping a lot at first.
If someone else has a better explanation?
killing a life is not enough for you?!!!
First, thanks for the quotes and your explanations guys, but i still dont see a fetus as a human life! Even if it is kinda developed it hasn't breathed, but if the baby takes in it's first breath then it is a life (that is my point of view)
[quote author=minagir link=topic=8535.msg108050#msg108050 date=1259637591]
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=8535.msg108048#msg108048 date=1259634052]
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108046#msg108046 date=1259628534]
well some of guys were kinda harsh... ouch
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
The gospel reading in the third watch (Agpeya) where a sinful woman weeps at the feet of Jesus indicates that she committed the crime of abortion. I am told, the keyword is 'her weeping' which is a sign of a woman who aborted .This fact is still true today. A doctor told us women who go to abortion clinics are characterized by their weeping a lot at first.
If someone else has a better explanation?
killing a life is not enough for you?!!!
First, thanks for the quotes and your explanations guys, but i still dont see a fetus as a human life! Even if it is kinda developed it hasn't breathed, but if the baby takes in it's first breath then it is a life (that is my point of view)
what if you were that fetus huh?? what if your mom wanted an abortion and was going to have one, but your dad stopped or convinced her from getting one? would you thank your dad for saving your life, or tell him it didnt matter since i was still in the womb and i couldnt breath yet
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108069#msg108069 date=1259703025]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=8535.msg108050#msg108050 date=1259637591]
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=8535.msg108048#msg108048 date=1259634052]
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108046#msg108046 date=1259628534]
well some of guys were kinda harsh... ouch
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
The gospel reading in the third watch (Agpeya) where a sinful woman weeps at the feet of Jesus indicates that she committed the crime of abortion. I am told, the keyword is 'her weeping' which is a sign of a woman who aborted .This fact is still true today. A doctor told us women who go to abortion clinics are characterized by their weeping a lot at first.
If someone else has a better explanation?
killing a life is not enough for you?!!!
First, thanks for the quotes and your explanations guys, but i still dont see a fetus as a human life! Even if it is kinda developed it hasn't breathed, but if the baby takes in it's first breath then it is a life (that is my point of view)
what if you were that fetus huh?? what if your mom wanted an abortion and was going to have one, but your dad stopped or convinced her from getting one? would you thank your dad for saving your life, or tell him it didnt matter since i was still in the womb and i couldnt breath yet
if i were a fetus and i was aborted i would have thanked god that my would be parents were smart enough to know they couldnt support me!
[quote author=sodr2 link=topic=8535.msg108073#msg108073 date=1259710251]
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108069#msg108069 date=1259703025]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=8535.msg108050#msg108050 date=1259637591]
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=8535.msg108048#msg108048 date=1259634052]
[quote author=abanoub2000 link=topic=8535.msg108046#msg108046 date=1259628534]
well some of guys were kinda harsh... ouch
butt..... i have researched the subjects, from a biblical point of view and i found allot of things that dont support gay rights... but i can't find much on abortion... a little help?
The gospel reading in the third watch (Agpeya) where a sinful woman weeps at the feet of Jesus indicates that she committed the crime of abortion. I am told, the keyword is 'her weeping' which is a sign of a woman who aborted .This fact is still true today. A doctor told us women who go to abortion clinics are characterized by their weeping a lot at first.
If someone else has a better explanation?
killing a life is not enough for you?!!!
First, thanks for the quotes and your explanations guys, but i still dont see a fetus as a human life! Even if it is kinda developed it hasn't breathed, but if the baby takes in it's first breath then it is a life (that is my point of view)
what if you were that fetus huh?? what if your mom wanted an abortion and was going to have one, but your dad stopped or convinced her from getting one? would you thank your dad for saving your life, or tell him it didnt matter since i was still in the womb and i couldnt breath yet
if i were a fetus and i was aborted i would have thanked god that my would be parents were smart enough to know they couldnt support me!
do not mix marriage with reasons for abortion.