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A massenger after Jesus

Coptic88Coptic88
edited December 1969 in Random Issues
Hello

I have a question which has been bothering me and no one has given me an answer with a reasonable explanation.

Its regarding the book of John, Chapter 16, verses 12-14. Who is Jesus referring to? Who is this massenger that is meant to come after him and teach the things that jesus was going to teach? Many say it is the Holy spirit but this can not be as the Holy spirit was there during the time of Jesus. This is illustrated throughout the Bible in such sections as "for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit". So theres obviously someone who is meant to come after Jesus and continue his teachings. And If this was referring to the Holy spirit, what are these teachings? what has been taught to Christains after Jesus.

Thanks

Comments

  • jshoukjshouk
    “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.[c]

    Where is the confusion? It is the Holy Spirit. The descent of the Holy Spirit is at Pentecost 50 days after Easter. The trinity exists from the start. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1. This shows the existence of God the Word (Jesus) from the beginning of time.
    "And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." Genesis 1:1. This shows that the Holy Spirit was also there from the start. However, the Holy Spirit did not dwell inside us till Pentecost. Hence, till pentecost, people did not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They had prophets, who had encounters with God (best example Moses) and they guided their people.
    I hope this helps...
    GB
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    The confusion for Coptic88 is how can the Holy Spirit come after Jesus if He was already there. To answer that we need to know that the Holy Spirit was not on earth, more specificly within us, as He is now. If that was so, for the least bit, why did the righteous and all those who pleased God went to Hades?!
    The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible. It is the word of God. Let's think a little about how God, the Father, in the old teatement spoke to His righteous people...did He speak to them in a physical form, did He dwell on them, or what happened exactly?!  I think that God spoke to them in a miraculous way that is hard for us to understand or explain. Some think that part of our inner being have like a connection to God considering that He is our Creator and we are in His image.
    Similarly, the Holy Spirit inspired the writting and the keeping of the holy Bible.
  • Coptic88Coptic88
    Ok but what are those things? What are the things that Jesus could not say? And when will they be told to us? Whether it is or not the holy spirit is not the main issue. The main issue is that there are some things that we are yet to be told. What I would like to know is what they are and shouldnt have we been told them already. Evidently there is a missing peice to the puzzle....

    Thanx
  • egyboyegyboy
    i dont really get what your trying to say here.. it was the Holy Spirit that came after Jesus ascended to heaven. is that your question?
  • Coptic88Coptic88
    No. After the death of Jesus there is meant to come a massenger and tell us certain things. After the death of Jesus that was it. There was no additions etc to the bible. But it is evident that there should have been. Do you get what im trying to say?

    Thanx
  • mabsootamabsoota
    after the death and resurrection of Jesus, we have the book of acts and we only have to read it find out what happened next.
    if there was a different messenger, the book of acts would have told us all about him/her, but instead, the book, written by saint luke, continues the story from the point Jesus is still with the disciples and ascends to heaven. in chapter 1 v8, it is clear that they are about to receive power from the Holy Spirit. they needed the power before they could understand and accept that this small group of men and women was about to spread the good news of Jesus over the entire world! it's a big job! i think if Jesus had explained this to them at the wrong time they would have freaked out!
    so those things that the messenger (the Holy Spirit) told them are all the things written in the rest of the Bible.
    this is why the new testament doesn't stop after the gospel of john.
  • Coptic88Coptic88
    He said
    He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Which means that someone is telling something to the desciples, someone is going to teach them something not that they will bring the news of Jesus to the world, thats the exact opposite. He is also referring to a single entity not a group of men and women. And when you say "i think if Jesus had explained this to them at the wrong time they would have freaked out!" thats your mere opinion but im looking for actual fact. Thanks for reply anyway but the question remains unanswered.

    Anyone?

    Thanks
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Coptic88, I am confused as to what you mean.

    Are you suggesting that Islam is God's message?

    The Church teaches us, and in fact our Lord himself is very clear, that it is the Holy Spirit who will descend upon the Church and provide the guidance, wisdom and knowledge necessary for the Church to be established. There is no other messenger, the Scriptures and the Church mean the Holy Spirit and only the Holy Spirit. This is what happened. After the Ascension of our Lord the Holy Spirit descended and gave the Church all that was needed, and continues to give the Church all that is needed.

    Do not look for some other messenger, this is not what is intended, and is not what happened.

    God bless you

    Father Peter
  • Coptic88Coptic88
    But why is the spirit referred to as a He?

    Thanks
  • Coptic88Coptic88
    I didnt suggest anything about Islam, but now that you have suggested it Father, it makes sense to at least look into it. I just want to explore deeper into Christianity and since it shares many ideals with other religions I think it would be a good idea to study other religions as well.

    Thanks
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Coptic88,

    I am struggling to see why you are having a problem with the constant teaching of the Church, indeed of all Christians in all places and times, and the clear meaning of the passage?

    The passage in John, very clearly indeed, such that there can be no misunderstanding, says that the one who is to come is...

    the Comforter (v7)

    and

    the Spirit of Truth (v13)

    This is very clearly the Holy Spirit. 

    Could you explain what is behind your question? I am not sure where there is any room for confusion?

    Father Peter
  • egyboyegyboy
    i agree with Fr. Peter, please clarify yourself coptic88
  • Theophilus 1Theophilus 1
    Coptic88
    I completely agree with you that Comparative Theology is a sub-discipline that we should study diligently. Of course when we study other religions we will come across many claims that Jesus is not the ‘last messenger’. To mention a few: Muhammed, Joseph Smith, Bahaullah, etc. HOW CAN WE TELL WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH???  ??? ??? ???
    I know your quest for the ‘last messenger’ or the ‘messenger that follows Jesus’ can not be fully answered by my short post. But allow me to share with you a true story:
    Once, a renowned U.S Treasury official (whose name I couldn’t recoil) was asked how he came to be so successful in identifying a forged bank note from the real one. He replied “I have studied the real one so well that if something is amiss I know it to be a forgery!”
    Pray for me
    In Christ
    Theophilus
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