[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=8788.msg110695#msg110695 date=1266337605] It is not appropriate to speak in a way which criticises someone who has already clearly been through a great deal of stress, even if we do not mean to criticise.
This topic is not best suited for an open internet forum.
Father Peter
No, I'm aware, that's why I created a new thread for this question.
[quote author=ZanAmrikai link=topic=8788.msg110654#msg110654 date=1266272453] The Bible says (Paul) that "A true Jew is anyone whose heart is right with God" (Living Bible)--so that who we seem to be on the outside is of little consequence compared to whether or not our hearts have been circumcised by the Lord.
I think there are plenty of people sitting in all kinds of churches around this world who do not truly have any relationship with Christ. They have never humbled themselves before God, they have not confessed--much less seen--their own sin, their own falling short, their own need for grace and forgiveness, so how can they ever extend grace to those around them?
Physical affection is natural, and the expression of love physically is God-given, but as CS Lewis wrote: "The monstrosity of sexual intercourse outside of marriage is that those who indulge in it are trying to isolate one kind of union (the sexual) from all the other kinds of union which were intended to go along with it and make up the total union." (CS Lewis, Mere Christianity)
As the Apostle Paul said: There is more to sex than mere skin to skin. Sex is as much spiritual mystery as physical fact. As written in Scripture, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE." … We must not pursue the kind of sex that avoids commitment and intimacy, leaving us more lonely than ever – the kind of sex that can never "become one." There is a sense in which sexual sins are different from all others. In sexual sin we violate the sacredness of our own bodies, these bodies that were made for God-given and God-modeled love, for "becoming one" with another. (1 Corinthians 6:16-18)
So many people do not think of sex as sacred--it becomes just a sharing of feeling good, but sex is far more than a physical feeling--not only does it have the potential EVERY SINGLE TIME (in fertile couples) to produce a child, but it has the potential to devastate the heart when love and fidelity do not follow. Sexuality is a gift, but for us women, we easily fall in love through sex...and unfortunately, that is no guarantee that the man is going to also fall in love with us, and when it ends, wow, does it ever devastate a girl. Of course, none of us has any guarantee that just because we are married we are going to have a happy marriage--none of us can guarantee that our husband or wife will not betray us--but at least we have had the opportunity to be equally yoked.
I did not listen to the Holy Spirit when I was definitely warned against marrying my (Iranian, agnostic, atheist) boyfriend back in 1984. Our marriage was filled with pain and our divorce was final on our 25th anniversary. One of the biggest heartaches of my whole life was that I believed in God and was married to someone who had no interest in it; he could not understand it at all and thought of me as a fanatic because I loved Christ. If we had not had premarital sex, maybe I would have had the power to move away from him...
"Above all else, guard your affections. For they influence everything else in your life." Proverbs 4:23
Hi,
I just wanted to point out that my comment was in no way a criticism of you. I have no idea of your situation. I should have opened a new thread to ask this question as it wasn't intended for you personally.
hey, i was just listening to a sermon yesterday about this same topic and i thought of you because i read this thread before but i was too lazy to look for it. then i went on the website and ur thread was rite there so it was a sign from God for me to tell you about the sermon. It is about last and the speaker is abouna Anthony Messeh, one of my top fav priests in the world. I have never met him but his sermons are amazing. Anyways, in this sermons he answers your question why we shouldnt have sex before marriage in a very smart away. I would advice you to listen to it and believe me you wont fall asleep hes very engaing and funny. and please let me know your thought when you hear it.
[quote author=Marina6 link=topic=8788.msg110718#msg110718 date=1266356907] hey, i was just listening to a sermon yesterday about this same topic and i thought of you because i read this thread before but i was too lazy to look for it. then i went on the website and ur thread was rite there so it was a sign from God for me to tell you about the sermon. It is about last and the speaker is abouna Anthony Messeh, one of my top fav priests in the world. I have never met him but his sermons are amazing. Anyways, in this sermons he answers your question why we shouldnt have sex before marriage in a very smart away. I would advice you to listen to it and believe me you wont fall asleep hes very engaing and funny. and please let me know your thought when you hear it.
In Christ, your sister
No, I know why we shouldn't have sex b4 marriage. That's not the issue.
The issue is why is it the Holy Spirit doesn't wake people's hearts to the sinful act. I mean, I know there's a lot of grey areas in life, and the devil LOVES the grey because it means he can fool you, but even if something to you is not straight forward, (such as sex before marriage) why doesn't the Holy Spirit speak to you? (NOT YOU! I mean, anyone).
And not just sex, I was asking about ANYTHING. We live in a world where we've become verbal gymnastics, using words to justify anything that suits us. We live in a society and culture that helps us justify we want to do no matter how sinful it is .
It is for this reason the grey zones or the differences between right and wrong can become increasingly blurred. But the Holy Spirit should guide you, and I'm really upset at why it doesn't for many people.
I'm not judging here. Please allow me to explain.
I said I have NO PROBLEM; I mean, not that its any of my business, but I completely understand, anyone that WANTS to sin, and he/she sins.
This makes sense. (Spiritually).
What does not make sense is someone who sins because he/she thinks they are doing something right. You see?
And this can apply to anything: stealing, lying... sex.. anything!
God's voice speaks in our hearts; but I'm worried about why it is not only being ignored, but why sinful acts are being justified in many cases - especially within Christian communities.
This worries me.
A Church saint once said that we confess to a priest (or one of the reasons we confess to a priest) is that if we've sinned, then we are hurting, and being members of the same body in Christ, all other members hurt, so by telling the priest, the Church has, in a way, shared in this person's condition. Therefore, if I am a sinner, the Church should be praying for me. We are ALL one body in Christ. We cannot ignore someone who has a problem.
So, in THIS respect, I am asking as to why the voice of God isn't being heard in people's hearts? How is it I can see a Bishop justify lying and not even blink or worry about whether this is right or wrong? How do people like this sleep at night?
And if we have priest/bishops who are behaving in this way, what about their spiritual children? What do you think their level will be? Did not Saint Francis of ASsis say : "Preach the Gospel, and if necessary, use words" ?!
If our spiritual leaders act in such a way, then what about those who are learning from them? We too will become like spiritual lawyers.. finding ways to justify heinous acts and living with it.
With respect to sex before marriage, I can say the same - unless our youth are taught to listen to the Holy Spirit in their hearts, why are they asking questions whether this is right or wrong???
They say : If a child is abusive, or doing something wrong, you should examine their parents. They must have picked this up from the parent.
If a child/youth whoever is unsure whether sex before marriage is wrong, let's look at their spiritual fathers - how are they behaving!? Are they themselves showing these children the right example?
Its a sad fact. I know from personal experiences, that we had priests that showed us some bad examples, and it did affect us. I mean, we ended up (as youth) justifying sins.
I am sorry--I think I confused you by what I had written about divorcing. I know this is off topic, but I wanted to clarify what happened, briefly.
I see now that you thought I meant that I got a divorce because I was a believer and my husband was not. In fact, I stayed married for many years even when I had "Biblical" reasons for divorce. I lived through betrayal, addiction, all kinds of abuse, but it was ultimately the ongoing adultery that ended it. He and she each left their families for each other.
I guess that in my case, you can think of Paul saying that if the unbeliever wants to leave, let him (or her), but don't let it be the believer who leaves or intiates the end.
Indeed, had I divorced my husband because I was a Christian and he was not, you would have to wonder if in fact I ever knew the Lord at all.
This is a good warning for why it is horrible to be unequally yoked.
But your original question about why do people not heed the voice of the Spirit was a good one. I think it is because 1) we are only human after all and 2) many who claim to know Christ have never really surrendered their hearts and lives to Him. It is not calling ourselves Christian that makes us so, but, as Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me." At least, we should WANT to obey Him, even if we do not always do so. That is why GRACE is so marvelous. Without grace, all we have is Legalism (The Law) + Jesus, and remember, Paul had to chastise Peter when Peter wanted everyone to follow Judaic law AND then have Jesus. If that's how we accomplish our renewal, Jesus would not have had to be the sacrifice. The fact that Jesus was both High Priest and Sacrifice makes it possible for Grace to abound.
Thank God!
I hope my post has clarified for some of you my earlier comments. Sorry for the confusion.
[quote author=ZanAmrikai link=topic=8788.msg110754#msg110754 date=1266372432] I am sorry--I think I confused you by what I had written about divorcing. I know this is off topic, but I wanted to clarify what happened, briefly.
I see now that you thought I meant that I got a divorce because I was a believer and my husband was not. In fact, I stayed married for many years even when I had "Biblical" reasons for divorce. I lived through betrayal, addiction, all kinds of abuse, but it was ultimately the ongoing adultery that ended it. He and she each left their families for each other.
I guess that in my case, you can think of Paul saying that if the unbeliever wants to leave, let him (or her), but don't let it be the believer who leaves or intiates the end.
Indeed, had I divorced my husband because I was a Christian and he was not, you would have to wonder if in fact I ever knew the Lord at all.
This is a good warning for why it is horrible to be unequally yoked.
But your original question about why do people not heed the voice of the Spirit was a good one. I think it is because 1) we are only human after all and 2) many who claim to know Christ have never really surrendered their hearts and lives to Him. It is not calling ourselves Christian that makes us so, but, as Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me." At least, we should WANT to obey Him, even if we do not always do so. That is why GRACE is so marvelous. Without grace, all we have is Legalism (The Law) + Jesus, and remember, Paul had to chastise Peter when Peter wanted everyone to follow Judaic law AND then have Jesus. If that's how we accomplish our renewal, Jesus would not have had to be the sacrifice. The fact that Jesus was both High Priest and Sacrifice makes it possible for Grace to abound.
Thank God!
I hope my post has clarified for some of you my earlier comments. Sorry for the confusion.
YES....that's is a great blessing and a great struggle to handle that burden.
Yes. You MUST forgive me. I type so fast, and when I think of a question, I just post it in the same window where I had the idea of the question.
Thank you very much for sharing. I'm really sorry about your situation. I totally understand that it is not easy.
I'm really glad you liked my question. I thought it was hard in formulating my thoughts and expressing them - but my ultimate concern is for the children of the Church that they are kept Holy (and myself).
Concerning sex before marriage, you are right: It is unfair on the girl AND guy to be engaged in sex before marriage as it rapes you of your free will.
Hi CertifiedOrthodox, I’m wondering how do you know that the voice of the holy spirit is not talking to them, for me personally I hear the voice before any sin, sometimes it gets very FAINT but you still know that what you are doing is not right, but it is US AS HUMANS that chose to ignore the voice and keep doing what we want, we should also be careful on JUDGING others because we will be judged with the SAME CUP, allot of people including myself have VISIBLE sins but I find that the ones that judge us the most are the people with HIDEN sins, they look like angels in church and they act like ones too, then the same night you go clubbing and they are right next to you(the clubbing is an example) When you judge a person or do not understand HOW THEY COULD DO SUCH A THING, you are taking GOD's place because only GOD know the person's hart and that makes all the difference. Example 2 people stole each an apple, one of them is hungry and cannot afford the apple, the other did not want to brake a 20$ for the 0.50$, the price of the apple. Now for the human LAWS they are both guilty and the punishment should be equal. GOD basing his decision on the hart of the person because he knows why we do each action, every emotion, every need, every thought, that being said I do not think that GOD’s decision will be the same as ours. There is also allot of factors that you may not know why this person did such and such sin, some people do sin to feel accepted, some others by force, some are like me, they know it is a sin but THEY LOVE THE SIN and only GOD could help change our harts.
About the subject of priests doing the wrong things or being bad examples, I will try to creat a new post because I’m losing my faith slowly but surely in Priests and not the church itself, you are right allot of priests are in love with themselves and they think that they are always right due to their position and they are far from it. This subject whenever opened, everybody stirs clear of it, why aren’t priests people like us???????? Also I feel that allot of priests are doing THEIR JOBS, it is not a JOBBBBBBBBBB. If you cannot lead to the right direction then you should not lead at all. Wrong priests are sending us away from GOD and not close to him because they are trying to enforce their position and all their POWERFULL advantages of being a priests.
i didn't see your new thread yet, so i am replying here. you probably heard before that God can bring good out of the most bizzare situations (believe me, i had more than my fair share of those), but it's really true. it's good that you are aware of the Holy Spirit warning you of sin. but for some people they ignore it so many times it seems to get really faint. even your neighbour in the block drilling a wall can be ignored if it goes on day after day and you keep trying to ignore it.
that's why it's good for your salvation (and mine coz i'm always told i'm 'too' open) that you are open and don't hide your weaknesses.
so, 'great', i hear you say, 'being picked on in church when the other guy is just as bad is good for me?' yes, in a way, because that guy is maybe just humming to himself and ignoring the spiritual advice which he got used to ignoring while you hear it loud and clear! so, you see, i think it's easier for you to get nearer to God than him, as you are working on your sin and listening to God and he doesn't seem to be (obviously i can't see inside his heart).
so that priest who was unfair (i don't dispute that) still helps you to see that you need not to sin. so, maybe some priests need to see their errors, i don't dispute that. but how can you be sure that God has chosen you to accomplish this task? maybe, He wants us to take the plank out of own eye before we remove the speck in our brother's, as Jesus said. ok, i expect you think it's you that has the speck and the priest has the plank. again, how can you be sure? until you take the 'speck' out of your eye, you can't see if the other guy has a speck or a plank!
this is a complex subject, so if you wish to discuss it more, please send me a personal message :)
I really haven't posted much but I felt the need to just post a passage from the Holy Bible concerning the manner this issue is being discussed. I am in no way attacking anyone but I came across this passage and felt it was necessary to post it.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
[quote author=wade826 link=topic=8788.msg112326#msg112326 date=1269402788] Hello Brothers and Sisters,
I really haven't posted much but I felt the need to just post a passage from the Holy Bible concerning the manner this issue is being discussed. I am in no way attacking anyone but I came across this passage and felt it was necessary to post it.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Please pray for me.
In Christ
Hi Wade,
I do not see the link between this and the issue being discussed.
Comments
It is not appropriate to speak in a way which criticises someone who has already clearly been through a great deal of stress, even if we do not mean to criticise.
This topic is not best suited for an open internet forum.
Father Peter
No, I'm aware, that's why I created a new thread for this question.
The Bible says (Paul) that "A true Jew is anyone whose heart is right with God" (Living Bible)--so that who we seem to be on the outside is of little consequence compared to whether or not our hearts have been circumcised by the Lord.
I think there are plenty of people sitting in all kinds of churches around this world who do not truly have any relationship with Christ. They have never humbled themselves before God, they have not confessed--much less seen--their own sin, their own falling short, their own need for grace and forgiveness, so how can they ever extend grace to those around them?
Physical affection is natural, and the expression of love physically is God-given, but as CS Lewis wrote: "The monstrosity of sexual intercourse outside of marriage is that those who indulge in it are trying to isolate one kind of union (the sexual) from all the other kinds of union which were intended to go along with it and make up the total union." (CS Lewis, Mere Christianity)
As the Apostle Paul said: There is more to sex than mere skin to skin. Sex is as much spiritual mystery as physical fact. As written in Scripture, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE." … We must not pursue the kind of sex that avoids commitment and intimacy, leaving us more lonely than ever – the kind of sex that can never "become one." There is a sense in which sexual sins are different from all others. In sexual sin we violate the sacredness of our own bodies, these bodies that were made for God-given and God-modeled love, for "becoming one" with another. (1 Corinthians 6:16-18)
So many people do not think of sex as sacred--it becomes just a sharing of feeling good, but sex is far more than a physical feeling--not only does it have the potential EVERY SINGLE TIME (in fertile couples) to produce a child, but it has the potential to devastate the heart when love and fidelity do not follow. Sexuality is a gift, but for us women, we easily fall in love through sex...and unfortunately, that is no guarantee that the man is going to also fall in love with us, and when it ends, wow, does it ever devastate a girl. Of course, none of us has any guarantee that just because we are married we are going to have a happy marriage--none of us can guarantee that our husband or wife will not betray us--but at least we have had the opportunity to be equally yoked.
I did not listen to the Holy Spirit when I was definitely warned against marrying my (Iranian, agnostic, atheist) boyfriend back in 1984. Our marriage was filled with pain and our divorce was final on our 25th anniversary. One of the biggest heartaches of my whole life was that I believed in God and was married to someone who had no interest in it; he could not understand it at all and thought of me as a fanatic because I loved Christ. If we had not had premarital sex, maybe I would have had the power to move away from him...
"Above all else, guard your affections. For they influence everything else in your life." Proverbs 4:23
Hi,
I just wanted to point out that my comment was in no way a criticism of you. I have no idea of your situation. I should have opened a new thread to ask this question as it wasn't intended for you personally.
Thanks
i was just listening to a sermon yesterday about this same topic and i thought of you because i read this thread before but i was too lazy to look for it. then i went on the website and ur thread was rite there so it was a sign from God for me to tell you about the sermon.
It is about last and the speaker is abouna Anthony Messeh, one of my top fav priests in the world. I have never met him but his sermons are amazing.
Anyways, in this sermons he answers your question why we shouldnt have sex before marriage in a very smart away. I would advice you to listen to it and believe me you wont fall asleep hes very engaing and funny.
and please let me know your thought when you hear it.
In Christ,
your sister
hey,
i was just listening to a sermon yesterday about this same topic and i thought of you because i read this thread before but i was too lazy to look for it. then i went on the website and ur thread was rite there so it was a sign from God for me to tell you about the sermon.
It is about last and the speaker is abouna Anthony Messeh, one of my top fav priests in the world. I have never met him but his sermons are amazing.
Anyways, in this sermons he answers your question why we shouldnt have sex before marriage in a very smart away. I would advice you to listen to it and believe me you wont fall asleep hes very engaing and funny.
and please let me know your thought when you hear it.
In Christ,
your sister
No, I know why we shouldn't have sex b4 marriage. That's not the issue.
The issue is why is it the Holy Spirit doesn't wake people's hearts to the sinful act. I mean, I know there's a lot of grey areas in life, and the devil LOVES the grey because it means he can fool you, but even if something to you is not straight forward, (such as sex before marriage) why doesn't the Holy Spirit speak to you? (NOT YOU! I mean, anyone).
And not just sex, I was asking about ANYTHING. We live in a world where we've become verbal gymnastics, using words to justify anything that suits us. We live in a society and culture that helps us justify we want to do no matter how sinful it is .
It is for this reason the grey zones or the differences between right and wrong can become increasingly blurred. But the Holy Spirit should guide you, and I'm really upset at why it doesn't for many people.
I'm not judging here. Please allow me to explain.
I said I have NO PROBLEM; I mean, not that its any of my business, but I completely understand, anyone that WANTS to sin, and he/she sins.
This makes sense. (Spiritually).
What does not make sense is someone who sins because he/she thinks they are doing something right. You see?
And this can apply to anything: stealing, lying... sex.. anything!
God's voice speaks in our hearts; but I'm worried about why it is not only being ignored, but why sinful acts are being justified in many cases - especially within Christian communities.
This worries me.
A Church saint once said that we confess to a priest (or one of the reasons we confess to a priest) is that if we've sinned, then we are hurting, and being members of the same body in Christ, all other members hurt, so by telling the priest, the Church has, in a way, shared in this person's condition. Therefore, if I am a sinner, the Church should be praying for me. We are ALL one body in Christ. We cannot ignore someone who has a problem.
So, in THIS respect, I am asking as to why the voice of God isn't being heard in people's hearts? How is it I can see a Bishop justify lying and not even blink or worry about whether this is right or wrong? How do people like this sleep at night?
And if we have priest/bishops who are behaving in this way, what about their spiritual children? What do you think their level will be? Did not Saint Francis of ASsis say : "Preach the Gospel, and if necessary, use words" ?!
If our spiritual leaders act in such a way, then what about those who are learning from them? We too will become like spiritual lawyers.. finding ways to justify heinous acts and living with it.
With respect to sex before marriage, I can say the same - unless our youth are taught to listen to the Holy Spirit in their hearts, why are they asking questions whether this is right or wrong???
They say : If a child is abusive, or doing something wrong, you should examine their parents. They must have picked this up from the parent.
If a child/youth whoever is unsure whether sex before marriage is wrong, let's look at their spiritual fathers - how are they behaving!? Are they themselves showing these children the right example?
Its a sad fact. I know from personal experiences, that we had priests that showed us some bad examples, and it did affect us. I mean, we ended up (as youth) justifying sins.
oops forgot to attatch the link
I see now that you thought I meant that I got a divorce because I was a believer and my husband was not. In fact, I stayed married for many years even when I had "Biblical" reasons for divorce. I lived through betrayal, addiction, all kinds of abuse, but it was ultimately the ongoing adultery that ended it. He and she each left their families for each other.
I guess that in my case, you can think of Paul saying that if the unbeliever wants to leave, let him (or her), but don't let it be the believer who leaves or intiates the end.
Indeed, had I divorced my husband because I was a Christian and he was not, you would have to wonder if in fact I ever knew the Lord at all.
This is a good warning for why it is horrible to be unequally yoked.
But your original question about why do people not heed the voice of the Spirit was a good one. I think it is because 1) we are only human after all and 2) many who claim to know Christ have never really surrendered their hearts and lives to Him. It is not calling ourselves Christian that makes us so, but, as Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me." At least, we should WANT to obey Him, even if we do not always do so. That is why GRACE is so marvelous. Without grace, all we have is Legalism (The Law) + Jesus, and remember, Paul had to chastise Peter when Peter wanted everyone to follow Judaic law AND then have Jesus. If that's how we accomplish our renewal, Jesus would not have had to be the sacrifice. The fact that Jesus was both High Priest and Sacrifice makes it possible for Grace to abound.
Thank God!
I hope my post has clarified for some of you my earlier comments. Sorry for the confusion.
I am sorry--I think I confused you by what I had written about divorcing. I know this is off topic, but I wanted to clarify what happened, briefly.
I see now that you thought I meant that I got a divorce because I was a believer and my husband was not. In fact, I stayed married for many years even when I had "Biblical" reasons for divorce. I lived through betrayal, addiction, all kinds of abuse, but it was ultimately the ongoing adultery that ended it. He and she each left their families for each other.
I guess that in my case, you can think of Paul saying that if the unbeliever wants to leave, let him (or her), but don't let it be the believer who leaves or intiates the end.
Indeed, had I divorced my husband because I was a Christian and he was not, you would have to wonder if in fact I ever knew the Lord at all.
This is a good warning for why it is horrible to be unequally yoked.
But your original question about why do people not heed the voice of the Spirit was a good one. I think it is because 1) we are only human after all and 2) many who claim to know Christ have never really surrendered their hearts and lives to Him. It is not calling ourselves Christian that makes us so, but, as Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me." At least, we should WANT to obey Him, even if we do not always do so. That is why GRACE is so marvelous. Without grace, all we have is Legalism (The Law) + Jesus, and remember, Paul had to chastise Peter when Peter wanted everyone to follow Judaic law AND then have Jesus. If that's how we accomplish our renewal, Jesus would not have had to be the sacrifice. The fact that Jesus was both High Priest and Sacrifice makes it possible for Grace to abound.
Thank God!
I hope my post has clarified for some of you my earlier comments. Sorry for the confusion.
YES....that's is a great blessing and a great struggle to handle that burden.
Yes. You MUST forgive me. I type so fast, and when I think of a question, I just post it in the same window where I had the idea of the question.
Thank you very much for sharing. I'm really sorry about your situation. I totally understand that it is not easy.
I'm really glad you liked my question. I thought it was hard in formulating my thoughts and expressing them - but my ultimate concern is for the children of the Church that they are kept Holy (and myself).
Concerning sex before marriage, you are right: It is unfair on the girl AND guy to be engaged in sex before marriage as it rapes you of your free will.
I’m wondering how do you know that the voice of the holy spirit is not talking to them, for me personally I hear the voice before any sin, sometimes it gets very FAINT but you still know that what you are doing is not right, but it is US AS HUMANS that chose to ignore the voice and keep doing what we want, we should also be careful on JUDGING others because we will be judged with the SAME CUP, allot of people including myself have VISIBLE sins but I find that the ones that judge us the most are the people with HIDEN sins, they look like angels in church and they act like ones too, then the same night you go clubbing and they are right next to you(the clubbing is an example)
When you judge a person or do not understand HOW THEY COULD DO SUCH A THING, you are taking GOD's place because only GOD know the person's hart and that makes all the difference.
Example 2 people stole each an apple, one of them is hungry and cannot afford the apple, the other did not want to brake a 20$ for the 0.50$, the price of the apple.
Now for the human LAWS they are both guilty and the punishment should be equal.
GOD basing his decision on the hart of the person because he knows why we do each action, every emotion, every need, every thought, that being said I do not think that GOD’s decision will be the same as ours.
There is also allot of factors that you may not know why this person did such and such sin, some people do sin to feel accepted, some others by force, some are like me, they know it is a sin but THEY LOVE THE SIN and only GOD could help change our harts.
About the subject of priests doing the wrong things or being bad examples, I will try to creat a new post because I’m losing my faith slowly but surely in Priests and not the church itself, you are right allot of priests are in love with themselves and they think that they are always right due to their position and they are far from it.
This subject whenever opened, everybody stirs clear of it, why aren’t priests people like us????????
Also I feel that allot of priests are doing THEIR JOBS, it is not a JOBBBBBBBBBB.
If you cannot lead to the right direction then you should not lead at all.
Wrong priests are sending us away from GOD and not close to him because they are trying to enforce their position and all their POWERFULL advantages of being a priests.
you probably heard before that God can bring good out of the most bizzare situations (believe me, i had more than my fair share of those), but it's really true.
it's good that you are aware of the Holy Spirit warning you of sin. but for some people they ignore it so many times it seems to get really faint. even your neighbour in the block drilling a wall can be ignored if it goes on day after day and you keep trying to ignore it.
that's why it's good for your salvation (and mine coz i'm always told i'm 'too' open) that you are open and don't hide your weaknesses.
so, 'great', i hear you say, 'being picked on in church when the other guy is just as bad is good for me?' yes, in a way, because that guy is maybe just humming to himself and ignoring the spiritual advice which he got used to ignoring while you hear it loud and clear!
so, you see, i think it's easier for you to get nearer to God than him, as you are working on your sin and listening to God and he doesn't seem to be (obviously i can't see inside his heart).
so that priest who was unfair (i don't dispute that) still helps you to see that you need not to sin.
so, maybe some priests need to see their errors, i don't dispute that.
but how can you be sure that God has chosen you to accomplish this task?
maybe, He wants us to take the plank out of own eye before we remove the speck in our brother's, as Jesus said.
ok, i expect you think it's you that has the speck and the priest has the plank.
again, how can you be sure? until you take the 'speck' out of your eye, you can't see if the other guy has a speck or a plank!
this is a complex subject, so if you wish to discuss it more, please send me a personal message :)
I really haven't posted much but I felt the need to just post a passage from the Holy Bible concerning the manner this issue is being discussed. I am in no way attacking anyone but I came across this passage and felt it was necessary to post it.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Please pray for me.
In Christ
Hello Brothers and Sisters,
I really haven't posted much but I felt the need to just post a passage from the Holy Bible concerning the manner this issue is being discussed. I am in no way attacking anyone but I came across this passage and felt it was necessary to post it.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Please pray for me.
In Christ
Hi Wade,
I do not see the link between this and the issue being discussed.