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What God has Made Clean, do not call common
In Acts 10:9, St Peter has this vision of a sheet carrying many animals. He hears a voice saying to him: "Take and eat". Peter refuses saying that he cannot eat anything unclean. The voice then tells him "What God has made clean, do not call common (unclean)".
What does this mean?
What does it mean: What God has made clean.
Who has God made clean?
Who is clean?
Is there anyone unclean?
Thanks
What does this mean?
What does it mean: What God has made clean.
Who has God made clean?
Who is clean?
Is there anyone unclean?
Thanks
Comments
Father Peter
The Jews thought Gentiles were unclean.
Father Peter
Yes, but do you have any more contemplations concerning this statement: What God has made clean, do not call common: ?
So, we are not jews, we are gentiles, how do we benefit from this phrase?
Peter needed convincing to deviate from the customs he was used to, and was offerd fod he was nto sure about becase of these laws he was used to following. So God told him that nothing that God makes is unclean, as it is made by God, teaching him that as God wills that he eat the food, and it was made by God, it is clean.
Why doesn't someone see what the Ancient Christian Commentary series says for this passage? It is available on books.google.com.
God bless whoever searches.
Father Peter
[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=9228.msg114364#msg114364 date=1273700230]
The Jews thought Gentiles were unclean.
Father Peter
Yes, but do you have any more contemplations concerning this statement: What God has made clean, do not call common: ?
So, we are not jews, we are gentiles, how do we benefit from this phrase?
How do we Benefit?
All that God has made and done is for our Good and our benefit, such is why we are thankful for all conditions, whether we see them as positive or negative.
All that comes from God is clean, no matter how we believe it to be thanks to culture or personal beliefs.
The Jews had strict dietary laws. They consider some foods and food combinations to be unclean.
Peter needed convincing to deviate from the customs he was used to, and was offerd fod he was nto sure about becase of these laws he was used to following. So God told him that nothing that God makes is unclean, as it is made by God, teaching him that as God wills that he eat the food, and it was made by God, it is clean.
OK, so there is NO OTHER spiritual benefit in the phrase: what God has made clean, do not call unclean/common for any one here because we are not jewish??
Is there anyone here who would like to share his/her contemplations on the verse: "what God has made clean, do not call common (unclean)".
If there is absolutely nothing you can think of, and this is just a matter of cultural problems facing jews then please let me know. Otherwise, what are your contemplations on this verse.
Thanks
ps. Fr. Peter, I had NO idea of the site books.google.com - I'll check it out, but please feel free to mention your contemplations. Im really interested.
Unfortunately google books doesn't provide the entire book, only the first few chapters. It cuts off before chapter 10.
after this, men sent by a Gentile named Cornelius came to see Peter, who went down to them immediately and went to Cornelius' house to preach the Gospel to him. in light of this situation (a Jew sharing the Gospel with an "unclean" Gentile) Peter resonded that God truly did not show favoritism, as these Gentiles were being blessed with faith and the Holy Spirit just as the Jewish believers had been. thus the words of the Lord "do not call anything unclean which God has made clean" took on a meaning of (basically) "do not call the Gentiles whom God has made clean and righteous through faith in Christ unclean, as the Holy Spirit and salvation are given to them, too".
That's it?!
There's nothing else anyone here wants to add?
What are your reflections on the passage?
Father Peter
I guess there are lots of things that could and will be added, but I am working at the moment as I guess lots of others are.
What are your reflections on the passage?
Father Peter
Would I be wrong in thinking that God also asks us to accept those who have now believed, and been baptised who have not known God before?
That their baptism, repentance also has made them clean and equal to anyone who was already a Christian.
For example: I've been blessed to come from a good Christian family. I attended Church all my life. Its very hard for me, as a Christian, to accept someone who has not lived the same life as me, and all of a sudden, when they become Christian, not judge them at all, and treat them as if they are equal to me.
Belief, repentance, & baptism makes someone clean. It is VERY DIFFICULT to look at someone as "clean" even though God has cleansed them, and they have even repented. He has made them clean. But in our eyes, it is hard to disassociate them with their past. We tend to see them attached/associated with their past self. With their "old man"; with their old nature; and this leads to prejudice and judging within the Body of Christ. We may not fully accept the person. We may still feel that "OK.. they are clean, but we are much cleaner", and this is all self righteousness and pride.
So, when I hear something like "What God has made clean, do not call common", I cannot help but feel that God is telling me to never see a person as unclean after they have become Christian, and repented.
And St Peter later on says: "Who am I to call them unclean"?" - i mean, later on, he cannot reject God's work in making these people clean by forgiving them and purifying them from their sins.
So, I'd like to know what do you all draw from this story?? Is my "message" from this story incorrect? Could you relate to it? Does anyone here relate to it?
Do you see it in a COMPLETELY different way than what I've mentioned??
Whether we are born Jew and become Christian, whether we are born Greek and become Christian, whether we are a modern-day atheist and become Christian, God looks at us equally. Not only that, but he is telling the "rest" of the Christians to not look down upon their brethren who are new to the faith. I can imagine that at the time there must have been some people who felt a certain pride that they had believed in our Lord Jesus from day one, and therefore in their minds they were better than the Greeks who had just recently converted. Likewise, even today unfortunately, sometimes we (as in Egyptian-born Coptic Orthodox Christians) might feel a certain level of "seniority" over our Asian, European, etc. brothers and sisters who have only recently been baptized.
What you are saying is exactly right, and this verse is truly a beautiful one that reminds us that in God's eyes, a believer is a believer.
Pray for me!
On the contrary, I believe that you are saying exactly what everyone else has already said. This verse is telling every single Jew, who thought that they were "chosen," that through his Body and Blood our Lord Jesus Christ leveled the playing field for everyone.
Whether we are born Jew and become Christian, whether we are born Greek and become Christian, whether we are a modern-day atheist and become Christian, God looks at us equally. Not only that, but he is telling the "rest" of the Christians to not look down upon their brethren who are new to the faith. I can imagine that at the time there must have been some people who felt a certain pride that they had believed in our Lord Jesus from day one, and therefore in their minds they were better than the Greeks who had just recently converted. Likewise, even today unfortunately, sometimes we (as in Egyptian-born Coptic Orthodox Christians) might feel a certain level of "seniority" over our Asian, European, etc. brothers and sisters who have only recently been baptized.
What you are saying is exactly right, and this verse is truly a beautiful one that reminds us that in God's eyes, a believer is a believer.
Pray for me!
Are you sure? I wasn't sure if I had mis-interpreted this verse.
I find it quite hard to accept someone who has not known God, and lived a very immoral life and finally accepts God. I find it hard to accept them as "clean".
Perhaps they have been cleansed, but I would consider someone else who hasn't done what they've done as being "MUCH CLEANER".
Its remarkable:
So, you can abstain from immorality, or sexual immorality, and that makes you clean.
Someone else can sleep with every single prostitute, indulge in every sinful act, repent and confess for their sins, and at the end of it, they are just as clean as you.
Of course it is only natural to feel that this unfair. How can God see both as clean?
But if what I said is true (about this verse), it means that not only God sees both cases as "clean", but He literally wants us to see the others as "clean" also, and treat them as if they are clean.
Gosh!!
GOSH!! That's quite a hard thing to ask!! Isn't it??
Perhaps I've gotten this wrong, and I'm mistaken?? Perhaps my interpretation of this verse is completely incorrect, and its not right?
Can Fr. Peter just clarify this?? thanks
If we cannot receive a new christian as purified by christ then we have grave spiritual problems.
I think of almost all the parables against the pharisees. The prodigal son. The pharisee and the publican etc etc.
This is rooted in a false idea that our sins are small and others are great. If we have sinned once we deserve death. If we have received much then much is demanded of us.
Will say more later
Father Peter
A person who is baptised is washed clean and begins a new life in Christ. Their state is purer - if we want to make a competition of it - than a Christian who was baptised many years ago and keeps sinning. Indeed to even bring to mind the past and forgiven sins of others is a sin. The sort of thinking you describe is phariseeism and the judgement of Christ is against those who think like that.
If we cannot receive a new christian as purified by christ then we have grave spiritual problems.
I think of almost all the parables against the pharisees. The prodigal son. The pharisee and the publican etc etc.
This is rooted in a false idea that our sins are small and others are great. If we have sinned once we deserve death. If we have received much then much is demanded of us.
Will say more later
Father Peter
Is me using this verse: What God has made clean, do not call common interpreted in the right way??
Or do you think it is wrong?
Does this verse support your message above, or is it completely taken out of context???
The exclusivity of the Old Testament was meant to help the Jewish people understand that they were to be holy, and to be separated to God. But they rather lost view of what their exclusivity was meant to remind them of, and they became self-righteous and proud of being Jewish, as if that by itself was ever enough.
At the point where St Peter had the vision he was challenged first of all to think about a related area of Jewish tradition, the distinction between clean and unclean food. He refused to eat because he thought it would contaminate him but the voice from heaven instructed him, what God has cleansed do not call polluted.
Now St Peter still didn't understand what the vision meant. But while he was considering it, at that moment, the Gentile enquirers arrived at the door. The link is made in his mind. He even goes on to explain it to Cornelius. He says... I have been taught that all of you Gentiles are unclean and I should have nothing to do with you, but God has shown me that I should not call any man unclean.
The meaning of the passage is clearly explained to us. We are not to call any man unclean. Indeed it is not clear to me that we are allowed to call any man at all unclean, but certainly we are not allowed to call anyone who has become a believer unclean, whatever their background.
Since we are instructed by God not to call a believer unclean then it is a sin if we do so. It is a sin to think ourselves better than anyone, whatever their sexual history outside of the Church for instance (though we should not think ourselves better than anyone ever). We know that to have an inappropriate sexual thought is THE SAME in God's eyes as committing the sin. So unless we can say that we have never, ever had an inappropriate sexual thought we cannot say that we are more pure than someone who has committed the act itself.
And the Scriptures are clear, when we think ourselves better than others and closes to God then if fact we are the worse sinners of all and furthest from God. Indeed we have sunk so low that we no longer see or care about our own sins.
We can test ourselves. What would we do if someone who was a committed Orthodox Christian of blameless life and of serious faith, but who had had sexual experiences before becoming a Christian, wanted to marry our daughter and she wanted to marry him? Do we believe that what God has cleansed must not be called unclean?
What will happen to us if we insist on remembering the sins before baptism of others? Surely we will find that we face a terrible judgement for all the sins we have committed AFTER baptism?
Father Peter
Where do you see a difference?
Father Peter
I am not sure what you mean because you appear to have said exactly what I said?
Where do you see a difference?
Father Peter
No, I get the impression that I mis-interpreted this chapter. I just interpreted in a way that made me think that God wants us to accept the baptism and repentance of other people. But although it had nothing to do with baptism, I just read it (ONCE) with that meaning.
I'm just asking - is that a wrong interpretation?
It is probably best not to think of anyone else as unclean and ourselves as clean.
But it is certainly wrong to consider other Christians as unclean because of sin before baptism.
Father Peter
Well it is reasonable to think in terms of the baptism of others giving them a new start and making them clean. But Cornelius and his household had not been baptised and yet St Peter was being asked to treat them as clean.
It is probably best not to think of anyone else as unclean and ourselves as clean.
But it is certainly wrong to consider other Christians as unclean because of sin before baptism.
Father Peter
Yes, OK, I know its best to not see others as unclean and us and "clean", but this interpretation has NOTHING to do with the verse : What God has Made Clean, do not call common.
It seems to have EVERYTHING to do with that verse.
When someone is baptised and born again they are made clean and must not be considered unclean in any way.
This IS what the verse is saying. It is nothing to do with ritual prescriptions about food, or cultural antipathy towards non-Jews. It is to do with receiving as clean those whom God has made clean.
Father Peter
Why not?
It seems to have EVERYTHING to do with that verse.
When someone is baptised and born again they are made clean and must not be considered unclean in any way.
This IS what the verse is saying. It is nothing to do with ritual prescriptions about food, or cultural antipathy towards non-Jews. It is to do with receiving as clean those whom God has made clean.
Father Peter
OK Sorry, so I did interpret it correctly.
OK.. nevermind.
Does anyone here have any other contemplations on that verse??
I just interpreted that way by luck. I came across that verse whilst I was thinking of a problem, and it touched me. However, I used it in a discussion with a friend (to prove a point), but I wasn't sure whether or not I should have used it.
But regardless: if you have any further comments on this verse, please let me know. I find it quite interesting this verse.
Also: thanks Fr Peter, sorry if I missed your point.
I think God was telling us something very important that we as Christians and human beings are actually doing every day which is, St Peter based his action on his own Knowledge and the JUDGMENT ONLY BELONGS TO GOD, it is not up to us to say who is clean and who is not, my apologies I’m not trying to offend anybody, but I’m someone who have not been born in the faith and since I have been in the faith I can tell you honestly that allot of Christians that I know through church are not true Christians(I'm judging here, may God forgive me this one) because they have all became JUDGES of men, they think because they go to church every Sunday and try to follow God’s law that they are above the ones that are sinning.
But God KNOWS WE WILL SIN, he knows how we are and how strong our enemy is.
Also there is many verses in the bible such as:
"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you" (Matthew 7:2).
"Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge" (James 4:11).
"There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?" (James 4:12).
"Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things" (Romans 2:1).
My point is by reading all the above verses and many more that I did not include I understand that God is telling me “ NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, YOU ARE NOT GOD AND HE IS THE ONLY JUDGE”
Guys I stopped going to church because of the judgment of others ESPECIALLY the ones who think they are doing everything right BY THE BOOKS but you have become only GODS and do not need Christ or God since you will decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.
As the verse above indicates every time you judge someone you will be judged with the same cup, sorry to say this but let’s take an example that all the Young Male youth struggle with:
SEX,
WE WILL JUDGE ANOTHER WHO HAS A GIRLEFREIND AND IS HAVING SEX WITH HER AS A SINNER AND SOMEONE CONDEMMED TO HELL BUT THE SAME PERSONNE JUDING THE FIRST GUY IS DOING THE SAME ACT BY HIMSELF THINKING OF A GIRL.
FOR GOD IT IS THE SAME SIN SO WHY ARE JUDGING HIM WHEN YOU ARE GUILTY OF THE SAME OFFENCE. (I hope I did not offend anyone, please forgive me)
Here’s something to think about taken from the book:
THE SEVEN WORDS OF OUR LORD ON THE CROSS
BY H. H. POPE SHENOUDA III
http://tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/svnwrds/index.html
"Assuredly I say to you, today you wilt be with Me in
Paradise" (Luke 23:43).
The first person to whom the Lord spoke on the cross,
was that thief... He did not start his life in fear of God, and his
sins led him to the cross. Whilst on the cross, he joined the
other thief in reproving the Lord (Matt. 27:43). But suddenly he
was transformed and began to have faith. He turned from a
reviler to a defender and from a mocker into a man of faith and
prayers.
It is really amazing that among all these multitudes, the
only person who defended the Lord Jesus Christ was that
malefactor! None among the twelve disciples did defend Him,
none among the seventy apostles, none among those who were
healed by Him, or those whose demons He exorcised... Nobody
at all did defend Him... He had to stand trial alone. Now the
only person who defended His cause and would not allow one
word of abuse to be directed to Him was the malefactor on His
right side! Could any of the disciples or the believers have
imagined that the only person to champion the Lord's cause
would be a thief! Truly the Lord Said: "Take heed that you do
not despise one of these little ones" (Matt. 18:10).
28
I love this example, why you ask: because God gave us hope that until the last breath you have YOU WILL STRUGGLE IN THE WORLD BUT YOU COULD ALWAYS REPENT.
The one we judged and condemned to death is the only one who defended Christ and all the people that were HOLY around Christ never even spoken in his favor when he needed it the most, in which group are we?????????????
Last note before I end my post (sorry about the length but I have allot more to say about this subject)
That made the Pharisees murmur against Him saying to His disciples, "Why do your teacher eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?" Jesus answered and said to them, "Those who are well do not need a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:27-32)
Many thanks first of all for your explanation. I found it quite interesting.
For me, this verse was pushing me to realise that What God has in fact made clean, we should not call common. That we are cleansed in baptism. This is vital. That we should see people's baptism as a new creation. We should no longer call them unclean, or even see them unclean.
And perhaps what you are saying complements what Fr. Peter has stressed also that we are judging others by still seeing them as "unclean".
As a person who was not raised in any church and who lived what Zoxsasi would no doubt call a sinful life, there was nothing to make me EVER think that because I had not been raised in a church-environment that somehow I was "less clean." This is entirely unbiblical! "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Behold, the old has passed away and all things are become new." What do you think that means if not that one has been translated from darkness to light? And it is not done by our obeisance--else why would we need Jesus?!--but by coming to Him and giving Him access as He sees fit.
Why not?
It seems to have EVERYTHING to do with that verse.
When someone is baptised and born again they are made clean and must not be considered unclean in any way.
This IS what the verse is saying. It is nothing to do with ritual prescriptions about food, or cultural antipathy towards non-Jews. It is to do with receiving as clean those whom God has made clean.
Father Peter
lol...
I'm glad I found this...