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The 'chastening' of the Lord
"My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."
Does this verse say that God will punish us for our wrong-doings during our lifetime in order to discipline us? If this is what the verse is saying, are there any other passages that speak about this?
I thought that was an OT belief. From memory, there are a few passages in the New testament that say otherwise, for example, when the Jews thought that the blind man was blind because of his parents' wrongs, Jesus corrected them and said that the parents weren't at fault.
Any help would be appreciated :) Thanks
PP4M
Does this verse say that God will punish us for our wrong-doings during our lifetime in order to discipline us? If this is what the verse is saying, are there any other passages that speak about this?
I thought that was an OT belief. From memory, there are a few passages in the New testament that say otherwise, for example, when the Jews thought that the blind man was blind because of his parents' wrongs, Jesus corrected them and said that the parents weren't at fault.
Any help would be appreciated :) Thanks
PP4M
Comments
"My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."
Does this verse say that God will punish us for our wrong-doings during our lifetime in order to discipline us? If this is what the verse is saying, are there any other passages that speak about this?
I thought that was an OT belief. From memory, there are a few passages in the New testament that say otherwise, for example, when the Jews thought that the blind man was blind because of his parents' wrongs, Jesus corrected them and said that the parents weren't at fault.
Any help would be appreciated :) Thanks
PP4M
I was thinking about this topic so much lately. I was about to post a new thread concerning this, but it would be beneficial if we combined our topics?
The topic that I was thinking of, as you mentioned, is from Saint James:
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Yet we know that God has allowed Job to be put into tests. So, is this chastisement what Saint James is talking about?? That we bring upon ourselves punishment/chastisement by simply submitting to our desires that give birth to sin?
On the one hand it appears that temptation is good for you, yet at the same time, it seems that it is not from God.
[quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=9370.msg115720#msg115720 date=1276848346]
"My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."
Does this verse say that God will punish us for our wrong-doings during our lifetime in order to discipline us? If this is what the verse is saying, are there any other passages that speak about this?
I thought that was an OT belief. From memory, there are a few passages in the New testament that say otherwise, for example, when the Jews thought that the blind man was blind because of his parents' wrongs, Jesus corrected them and said that the parents weren't at fault.
Any help would be appreciated :) Thanks
PP4M
I was thinking about this topic so much lately. I was about to post a new thread concerning this, but it would be beneficial if we combined our topics?
The topic that I was thinking of, as you mentioned, is from Saint James:
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Yet we know that God has allowed Job to be put into tests. So, is this chastisement what Saint James is talking about?? That we bring upon ourselves punishment/chastisement by simply submitting to our desires that give birth to sin?
On the one hand it appears that temptation is good for you, yet at the same time, it seems that it is not from God.
No,the temptation that is spoken of here is not from God. I also thought so at the start, and that's why I kind of disregarded that first verse a few times. Also, Job was not tempted by God, this is clear in the story of Job wherethe devil wanted to tempt Him and god allowed it. He did not tempt Job himself, but He allowed for temptation.
Though the reason I didn't mention that verse in my first post is that I think that 'temptation' and 'chastening' are two different things. I'm only guessing but I think temptation is the "testing of one's faith" as St. James mentions earlier in the passage, and the 'chastening' of the Lord is actual punishment during our Earthly lives for sin that we comit.
So, why do we pray and say "Lead us not into temptation" ??
I feel that there is chastisement through being led through temptation, so that is why i was asking.
But on second thought, I don't think temptation is punishment as much as a tool that God provides for us to get closer to Him.
On the other hand, both temptation and chastening would achieve the same purpose - to set straight our path and bring us closer to God.
So I really don't know.
Anyone?
Its a way for God to teach us. He doesn't initiate the temptation/test, it is satan that does that.
However, I'm just curious, with Job, wasn't it God that decided to test Job???!
A football coach will chasten one of his players who is not performing well. He will make him run round the track. He will make him stay behind and do more repetitions. He will even shout at him. But this is not punishment. It is not punishment because it is not designed with justice in mind. It is designed with the health and wellbeing of the subject in mind.
Punishment is for the sake of the one who is punishing. Chastisement is for the sake of the one being chastised.
Chastisement has the dictionary meaning of refining and purifying. And this is what happens when we are chastened. Punishment takes place until the punishment is completed according to the judgement. Chastisement is dynamic and flexible. As we embrace the refining purpose of chastisment then it eases because it is not a punishment. Punishment would be God saying, you are going to have a month of terrible things happening because you deserve it. Chastisement would be God saying, I want you to learn to trust me and so we are going to go through this or that situation together until you do learn this lesson.
We are chastened by God allowing situations to occur, or by God withdrawing from us so we have a sense of what it is like without him. But this is not punishment, even if it might look like it or feel like it. It has a different, entirely positive purpose, of healing us of our moral and spiritual sicknesses, and of making us stronger.
When we are not being chastened then we should be more concerned. It is sometimes a sign that we are separated from God. Those whom he loves he chastens. We should not be afraid of being chastened, nor flee from the necessary lessons it teaches us. God will never ask more of us than he will give us grace to cope with.
Father Peter
Thank you Father!
PP4M
that's an awesome explanation, thanks :)
Thanks Fr. Peter!!!