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Facial Tattoo

IoannesIoannes
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
I love tattoos. I have one on my neck, of course anyone can see that in my profile pic, a cross on my wrist, and a host of others that I got before I became Orthodox. The main reason I got the cross on my right hand is not because many copts do this but in defiance of the mark of the beast. I want to get a cross on my forehead and I am seriously considering it, for apocalyptic reasons. I dont think anything anyone says here will have any effect on wether I get it or not, cept maybe Fr Peter.

Keep in mind, everyone knows I am crazy and stays away from me anyways.
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Comments

  • Aegyptian
    Could you please quote the scriptures that made you want a facial tattoo? Or give the chapter and verses, I really want to read it.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    [quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9518.msg117223#msg117223 date=1280406617]
    I love tattoos. I have one on my neck, of course anyone can see that in my profile pic, a cross on my wrist, and a host of others that I got before I became Orthodox. The main reason I got the cross on my right hand is not because many copts do this but in defiance of the mark of the beast. I want to get a cross on my forehead and I am seriously considering it, for apocalyptic reasons. I dont think anything anyone says here will have any effect on wether I get it or not, cept maybe Fr Peter.

    Keep in mind, everyone knows I am crazy and stays away from me anyways.


    Do you want to get a tattoo on your head?

    I would ask your wife before you do something like that. It could be a problem for you later on.

    If you really want to do something for "Apocalyptic" reasons, why don't you buy yourself a white horse and ride on it to Church sundays?
    Im glad to see we have fun loving orthodox people here, but don't you think that this erratic behaviour may not be a good example to people who are considering orthodoxy??

    Orthodox behaviour is calm, its silent, its contemplatative - its not "bang in your face". I hope you don't go around in the streets screaming at people to repent before Armageddon comes - do you? Its not that I mind, its just, it can perhaps give the wrong signals.

  • davids
    R u sure ur doing it for god or because it looks cool?  Also u can show ur a christian in other ways like praying and leading a christian life. Also if watever any1 says has no bearing on wat ur going to do y did u ask?  Remember ur body is a temple to the lord
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    The book of revelation is entirely a symbolic book. The mark of God and stamp of God is the Holy Spirit of Whom we receive through baptism. Not a literal stamp per se
  • John_S2000John_S2000
    I only know that you're crazy about Christ and that's good  :)

    This is a quick reply...

    If for Apocalyptic reasons, in Revelation it is written that the mark would be either on the hand OR on the head not on both so you've done enough and you're covered here. No need for a 2nd mark...

    And jydeacon is right with God's Grace we've been anointed with the Holy Spirit's stamp.

    Every sign you tattooed on your skin has become obsolete after your baptism and there is of course no problem showing now you're the Lord's servant (and a servant of one of His Churches).

    Btw I have been reading some articles when I had time lately and I'll probably reply soon to your topic on the book of Enoch.

    GBU
  • TzegemariamTzegemariam
    Selam everyone,
    most elderly or people living in villages habesha(Eritrean and Ethiopian) women and some men have facial tatoos of Crosses on their forehead
    ( The middle one)
    http://www.celticnz.org/images/Feedback/HarquusFacialTattoos.JPG

    May God Bless
  • TzegemariamTzegemariam
    heres a good link that talks about getting tattoos of Holy Crosses
    http://suscopts.org/resources/literature/677/tattoos-of-the-cross/
  • geomike
    In my opinion that's just nasty, i hate tatoos in the first place but i can tolerate the cross on the wrist. BUT ON UR FACE!!!!!!!! Too much tamaya i see. lol.
  • jerusalem2jerusalem2
    i generally don't like tatoos either.. but a couple of times i was thinking to myself if i ever had a tatoo wot wud i get, and i thot... mmm might be cool to hav a tattoo that says 'property of God/Christ' or 'daughter/child of God'  :)

    but then i wud think to myself, that it wud just b coz it might look cool really, the Bible does not tell us that a tattoo will make us any more God's child.  We r baptised, anointed with the Holy Myron and have the Holy Spirit living in our hearts.. we either live as God's children and obey His commandments or we don't, either way i doubt that a tattoo will make any difference on judgement day  :-\ my understanding is that God will look into a hearts.  +if it was helpful for our salvation, i believe it would have been mentioned by the church Fathers or have bn a sacrament.

    just trust in God that He will always be with you.  He will never forget you and especially not on judgement day when ur hope is in Him.  He will save and be the lifter up of ur head, as you ask for mercy.  It is His good pleasure to give His children the heavenly kingdom and wot He suffered so much to accomplish.  :)

    In Christ,
    GBu!
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I am not the best person to give an opinion because I am culturally not in favour of tattoos at all.

    I think I would say that I would find a tattoo on the face particulary problematic because it seems to me that the face has something very substantial to do with our identity as persons created by God, and I would find it hard to see the face 'changed', just as I find heavy makeup rather problematic.

    I am not sure that I think it necessary to mark ourselves to show that we belong to Christ. The true and substantial mark must be upon our hearts. I would be concerned that it is too easy to say 'I will get a tattoo (or even wear a cross) to show I belong to Christ', and then say, 'I will get another tattoo, (or wear an even larger cross) to show I REALLY belong to Christ', and then say, 'I will get another and larger tattoo, (or wear an even larger and more prominent cross) to show I REALLY REALLY belong to Christ'.

    Some of this seems to me to be a little like when we sin, and then say 'I will really, really force myself not to do this again'. When actually we need to learn that we can do nothing at all in our own strength to acheive any spiritual growth at all.

    Now some of my response is cultural. I have not grown up in a setting which finds any tattoos acceptable. But I think that I also have spiritual and even theological reasons for wanting to be cautious in marking the body with tattoos, or in using other ways of advertising outwardly that we are Christians. None of this makes us a better Christian at all - and I am not suggesting that is the reason why anyone in this present thread is considering getting a tattoo - but I do think that what we do outwardly is not very important compared with what must be done inwardly.

    Father Peter
  • aidanaidan
    Can I just add a note. I have seen one or two facial tattoos on women's (Ethiopian or Eritrean)foreheads in London but when I visited the country(ies) last April I saw only one on a woman and none on men. Why don't they feel the need?
  • Abounasarecool
    we are the temple of God and the Holy Spirit lives inside of u. You are destroying your body that is of God....it is not yours. & u are also giving the wrong impression to ppl.
    Read what HG bishop Youssef says
    http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=639&catid=377
    http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=640&catid=377
  • geomike
    Ya, you show that you are of God by your works not by metallic ink on your face, that's just insanity, i am sorry ionnes but i don't think this is a good decision. You in fact will just scare everybody away, they will say you're a freak and they will think they will be obligated to do this stupid thing. I strongly advice u not to do it. Sorry if i am harsh but you needed to hear that.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Ioannes,

    I find Fr. Peter's quite compelling and wonderfully stated.

    I will also say, since you mention Origen quite a bit.  Do not go down Origen's path in that regard.

    I do not think you are crazy, and I do not stay away from your comments.

    I like going back and forth or even along with your comments, because I know you do not take things personally.

    It gives a chance for a verbal volley.
  • IoannesIoannes
    I  find it amazing that so many people say how "crazy" this idea is, rip me apart for not being humble or whatever, then tell me how to be Christian LOL. I dont quote Origen all the time either ilovesaintmark. I quote St John Chrysostom much more than anyone. I never said this "tattoo" is a stamp of God or seal of God, so I take offense to the person that decided to tell me thats what I said. Here is what I said, if it was not clear I am going to elaborate. In the end the anti-Christ will put a mark on the right hand or forehead, I have a cross on my right hand, and I want to get one on my forehead in defiance of the anti-Christ, not because it is "a seal of the Holy Spirit".
    I find it so amazing how I am insulted, then told how to behave as a Christian. Before you open your mouths maybe you should read what I had said so that maybe you could understand. Is it Christian to fly off at the mouth with not having a proper understanding of what I said? Dont interpret things for yourselves. Erratic behavior? Insulting someone then telling them how to be is erratic.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Ioannes,

    I did not say you quoted Origen, I said you 'mention Origen'.  My thought was that it is not necessary to take things to excess.
    I thought I was answering you in the same tone I usually do.

    I know you quote St. John Chrys. mainly.
  • IoannesIoannes
    My wrath was not necessarily directed at you. But certain people jumping to illogical conclusions asserting that because I would like a tat like this means that I would go down the street screaming the end is near. I found that rather condescending and insulting. There is a monk who gouged out his eyes because he looked at a woman, he is Egyptian but I cannot remember his name. I think that is much more extreme that what I proposed.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    I have read such things also.

    Thanks, I did not want you to think I was attacking you.  I like being able to bounce comments back and forth with you.
  • IoannesIoannes
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9518.msg117275#msg117275 date=1280515079]
    I have read such things also.

    Thanks, I did not want you to think I was attacking you.  I like being able to bounce comments back and forth with you.


    I did not find you insulting, and I was not upset with you. I love you and respect you very much. I dont hate anyone here I was just disgusted with some of the comments. I expected some heat, but not this kind of nonsense. Also it was right after I debated the JW on the phone LOL so I was riled up pretty good. btw send me a message with your email and I can give u the recording.
  • John_S2000John_S2000
    Dear Ioannes,

    I did not mean to attack you either, I was just following this train of thought that many here in my country have a small cross tattooed on their hand though not to counter the 'mark' but as a holy blessing from a monastery visit or during St George feast, or to have a permanent stamp on their skin showing they want to always stay body and spirit among the servants of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Sorry if I or any one did offend you my brother.

    GBU
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    I will send you a PM with my e-mail.  I am interested to hear the dialogue.
  • geomike
    [quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9518.msg117271#msg117271 date=1280511985]
    My wrath was not necessarily directed at you. But certain people jumping to illogical conclusions asserting that because I would like a tat like this means that I would go down the street screaming the end is near. I found that rather condescending and insulting. There is a monk who gouged out his eyes because he looked at a woman, he is Egyptian but I cannot remember his name. I think that is much more extreme that what I proposed.


    What the monk did was wrong, i don't know if you realized.
  • jerusalem2jerusalem2
    Dear Ioannes,

    i am very sorry i think i must have misunderstood ur comment. i did not consider that the tattoo was meant as an act of defiance but thought it wud be an act to reaffirm that you belong to Christ.  my mistake, i guess coz that wud be why i wud get it if i was to get one. Also, did not mean to tell u how to live as a Christian, but was trying (tho not well) to explain why i thot a tattoo was not important in affirming our belonging to Christ.  i really meant no offence and will try and be more careful in the future.  i am sorry, please forgive me.
  • IoannesIoannes
    Jerusalem, I didnt even go back through and read who said what. As another person said, this is done in Ethiopia. It is an act of defiance at the same time as being a statement of belief. I see nothing wrong with this. Muslims wear their absurd clown outfits, priests wear their garments, many copts have tats on their wrist and many people wear a necklace with a cross on it. So whats the difference? The world has let me know how it feels towards me, so what do I care, assuming I did get the tattoo, what the world says about it?
  • axum
    cross tatoos on the forehead,neck ,temples, hands and chin is very popular in the northern highlands of ethiopia .My mother has one on  each hand and arm and my aunt has it all over her neck .This was done when they were little girls and they don't have no say in the matter .even if they did have a say in it i doubt if they would oppose .It is generally considered a good thing .it is not common among people born in  cities .

  • axum
    I forgot ...gum tatoos are also very popular in ethiopia .
  • geomike
    wat's a gum tatoo?
  • IoannesIoannes
    [quote author=geomike link=topic=9518.msg117302#msg117302 date=1280550568]
    wat's a gum tatoo?


    They tattoo different kinds of chewing gum.
  • deaconmark123deaconmark123
    let me give you a small story that probably will not have an affect on you or anyone else, its just because i like to talk lol....


    one day before getting a haircut i decided that when i get a hair cut i wanted to do something so crazy, it would show my love for egypt....so guess what i did.....i shaved a pyramid into the back of my head. then i went into my servents prep class, and my head servent saw it...was amazed. and then bent over to tell me, a fade will do you much better next time. Then later on ABOUNA came into the room i was in, and immediately i flipped my hood up; not wanting him to notice anything. after these events i realized do i want to be the laughing stock, or joke in every persons mouth? no i didnt....i also didnt want to be seen in church with this embarrassing hair cut. and the funny thing is hair grows back in like a week yet i was still embarrassed. a tattoo on the other hand it gets saggy and nasty looking and ugly and its going to be on ur nose after a couple of years. Do you really want to go around with a tattoo of the cross on your forehead just because you think the devil is gonna get you or something? Egyptians have the tattoo on their wrists cause of the persicution that went on in the past. not because they wanted to state their belief, if anything they would rather blend into the crowd than state their beliefs lol.


    but thats just a little something from me, who cares? in the end its your choice and it really doesnt matter what other people think of it. just know God is the only one who cares, if you feel its right, hey why not get your body tattooed? i wanted a tattoo also
  • geomike
    [quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9518.msg117309#msg117309 date=1280581339]
    [quote author=geomike link=topic=9518.msg117302#msg117302 date=1280550568]
    wat's a gum tatoo?


    They tattoo different kinds of chewing gum.

    ok? that's kind of weird?
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