Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Extreme Protestantism! (dumb edition)
I have been trying like heck to talk with this "pastor" that runs Red Letter Ministries named Brandon Barthrop. I have persued him on the net. I have called, sent letters, etc. And cannot get a response outside of something stupid like "Shika Boomba" or something to that effect. This brand of protestantism was made popular by John Crowder who brought in the drug culture, getting high with the Holy Spirit, etc.
Here are some videos to get you started on this stupidity. Denominations like this split from charismatic denominations like lakewood revival, whos pastor was just involved in a scandal. It really shows how protestantism reduces itself to the most base and simplest form.
Bear with me on these, some of these the guy literally does nothing but laugh and make noises for a couple minutes. But watch and be in awe with his teachings LOL.
[Moderated: Just not suitable for any of us to watch]
This next guy is a psychopath and actually dangerous like Jim Jones in my opinion. He teaches that everyone else is wrong except him. I have engaged him and he called me just about every name in the book, then proceeded to ban me from any sort of online discussion. I have not been able to get his personal information to send him a letter or call him yet. He thinks he is a jew. This is what St. John Chrysostom called "Judaizers" and you can see why he hated them so much.
Keep watching, he always snaps a minute or two into the videos.
[Moderated: Just not suitable for any of us to watch]
Here are some videos to get you started on this stupidity. Denominations like this split from charismatic denominations like lakewood revival, whos pastor was just involved in a scandal. It really shows how protestantism reduces itself to the most base and simplest form.
Bear with me on these, some of these the guy literally does nothing but laugh and make noises for a couple minutes. But watch and be in awe with his teachings LOL.
[Moderated: Just not suitable for any of us to watch]
This next guy is a psychopath and actually dangerous like Jim Jones in my opinion. He teaches that everyone else is wrong except him. I have engaged him and he called me just about every name in the book, then proceeded to ban me from any sort of online discussion. I have not been able to get his personal information to send him a letter or call him yet. He thinks he is a jew. This is what St. John Chrysostom called "Judaizers" and you can see why he hated them so much.
Keep watching, he always snaps a minute or two into the videos.
[Moderated: Just not suitable for any of us to watch]
Comments
Their leader who seemed well-read, kept stating how the origin of Christianity was from Nigeria and Kenya. He used for example the fact that their was a tribe in Nigeria called the "Iaso" where Jesus got his name from.
He then started talking about this book, which from his basic summary inferred that the stories of the Bible didn't really happen in Israel, but in Egypt. So King Solomon wasn't an Israeli King, but an Egyptian Pharaoh.
http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Egyptian-Religion-Ahmed-Osman/dp/1591430461
Needless to say it's pretty unconvincing, specially since the author of the book appears to be a Muslim engineer.
I figured I'd share this little experience with you, because I see that your interested in disproving modern heretics, if one wants to call them that.
I remember once running into a bunch of tourists who were having deep convos about the possible link between Christianity and Africa.
Their leader who seemed well-read, kept stating how the origin of Christianity was from Nigeria and Kenya. He used for example the fact that their was a tribe in Nigeria called the "Iaso" where Jesus got his name from.
He then started talking about this book, which from his basic summary inferred that the stories of the Bible didn't really happen in Israel, but in Egypt. So King Solomon wasn't an Israeli King, but an Egyptian Pharaoh.
http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Egyptian-Religion-Ahmed-Osman/dp/1591430461
Needless to say it's pretty unconvincing, specially since the author of the book appears to be a Muslim engineer.
I figured I'd share this little experience with you, because I see that your interested in disproving modern heretics, if one wants to call them that.
That reminds me of Khement-Nu. This guy goes on a "black" tirade. And yes I mean that how it sounds. He claimed that Arius was a black man and thats why he was denounced at Nicea. He claimed that the cross was taken from egyptian temples and placed on constantines soldiers shields, not realizing that the cross of constantine does not look like the typical cross he proposed. Needless to say this man is another victim of mine. When he took his little group to an Ethiopian church in Lalibela and went off about the Icons depicting a white Christ in an african church, I decided I had enough. I despise that man and anyone else that goes on and on about this whole black thing.
It was called the "Know Your Roots Tour" and I'm almost certain that they toured all over Africa, including Ethiopia.
The people there didn't really strike me as a religious group tho.
Come to think of it, this tour coulda been associated with that fellow, Khemunt-Nu.
It was called the "Know Your Roots Tour" and I'm almost certain that they toured all over Africa, including Ethiopia.
The people there didn't really strike me as a religious group tho.
Yea, thats it. The guy is a muslim. He doesnt come out and say it, but he slips and says "Peace be upon him" a few times. This is why he makes some outrageous claims against Christianity. I dont like him at all.
May God have mercy on them :(
This is a prime example of demonic activity. There is nothing Christian about these people; only the mockery of Christianity by Satan and the fallen angels.
May God have mercy on them :(
Very good observation Justin. This is the point where protestantism stops hiding what it really is. I hope everyone can get a chance to read my books so that they may better understand some of these concepts. Very good observation Justin, kudos!
But.....
There is a difference between how we should treat those Protestants who are closer to us in their beliefs or are moving closer to our Orthodox and Apostolic Faith, and those who have an entirely heretical theology and who are determined to undermine and damage the Church of Christ.
There is also a difference between being welcoming to moderate Protestants, and the Protestantism they espouse. As far as I can see we are required to resist false teaching from wherever it appears, even while being sensibly generous towards those who are unwitting in their error, and those who are determined in it.
What I mean is, if a Baptist wants to attend services in Church, and has questions about our Orthodoxy, then we are not to be troubled by whatever views he might hold which are error. We are prayerfully engaged in a loving evangelism and must be tolerant of error while seeking to explain the truth.
But if an Orthodox starts attending a Baptist Bible Study then that is a different matter (outside of some special circumstances). To be generous towards those seeking truth when they embrace error is one thing. But to turn from the truth towards error is another. And the Scriptures and teachings of the Fathers are very clear in making this distinction.
Generosity towards those seeking to become Orthodox. Strictness towards error itself.
But what must be even worse is to import Protestantism into the Church. Protestantism is error. This is not a condemnation of those who are members of Protestant communities. Indeed often in the West it is not Protestants which are the problem, it is that we Orthodox are allowing Protestant ideas into the Church by our own choice.
To resist Protestantism is not the same as wanting to disconnect with modern society and pretend we are living in rural 18th century Egypt. But it does require a commitment to our spiritual tradition, an understanding of those things which are only Egyptian culture and those things which are part of the Coptic Christian culture, and an appreciation of the elements of Protestantism which are being embraced.
Perhaps some of them are:
i. An individualisitic Christian faith
ii. Individualistic study of the Bible
iii. Indiscrete use of Protestant songs
iv. Reading Protestant books
v. Listening to Protestant sermons and teaching
vi. Thinking that all Christian groups are essentially the same
vii. Attending Protestant worship services
viii. Lack of knowledge of the teachings of the Church
ix. Disregard for fasting, a rule of prayer and the sacraments
Now there are SOME things that SOME Protestants can be commended for, but we should appreciate that the things we might commend them for are already aspects of our Orthodox Apostolic Faith which we have neglected.
i. A desire to share the Christian Faith
ii. A knowledge of and love for the Scriptures
There are many Protestant groups who are not interested in the Bible or Evangelism. But those that are should be commended. We might ask ourselves why WE are not doing evangelism rather than criticising others for filling the gap we have left. These two things are NOT actually aspects of Protestantism, rather they have always been aspects of our Orthodox Apostolic Faith. We must seek a renewal in them.
There are some good older Protestant hymns that are not objectionable. Some Protestant communities were heading in a very much more Orthodox direction at one point in the past. There are also some older Protestant children's songs that are not objectionable. Here is one..
Daniel was a man of prayer,
He prayed daily three times,
Till one day they had him cast
In a den of lions.
In a den, in a den,
Fears could not alarm him,
And God shut the lion's mouths,
So they could not harm him.
This is a very old children's song. It seems to me that a group of children singing this as part of a Sunday School time is different from what we see happening in some places with adult Orthodox Christians adopting the modern songs, tunes and instrumentations of what are songs essentially promoting a very different theology and spirituality to our own.
The words of many modern songs seem to me to be problematic because they are detached from life in the Church. They describe an individualistic faith with just me and God. Many of the modern songs are filled with I and ME rather than being about God. And even if the words are not problematic, the tunes are designed to produce an emotional response which is alien to our Orthodox spirituality.
If we look at some Coptic hymns we will see that they are richly theological and not emotional (though of course as humans we do always have an emotional component in our responses to God).
Hail to Mary the queen,
the unbarren vine,
that no farmer toiled,
in her is found the Cluster of life.
The Son of God is truly,
incarnate from the Virgin.
She bore Him. He saved us,
and forgave us our sins.
or
Their voices went forth,
onto the face of the whole earth,
and their words have reached,
the ends of the world.
Pray to the Lord on our behalf,
my masters and fathers the Apostles,
and the seventy two disciples,
that He may forgive us our sins.
When I look at many of the modern Protestant songs they lack depth and say nothing, they tend to all be about I and ME and MY response. They do not normally locate the worshipper within the community of the Church and never refer to the communion of the Saints and seek their intercession. They are also not normally Trinitarian.
Many of the older hymns say much more, but they are written by Protestants and so must be considered with care so that we do not soak up a Protestant theology by default. Yet there are still more ancient hymns in English which are entirely Orthodox. Here is a very ancient Latin one.
Before the ending of the day,
creator of the world, we pray,
that with thy wonted favour thou
wouldst be our guard and keeper now.
From all ill dreams defend our eyes,
from nightly fears and fantasies;
tread under foot our ghostly foe,
that no pollution we may know.
O Father, that we ask be done,
through Jesus Christ thine only Son,
who, with the Holy Ghost and thee,
dost live and reign eternally.
The problem is that the Western culture we are connecting with is not this ancient and Orthodox one, but is modernist, individualistic and liberal. It is all about me.
One of the great blessings of having become Orthodox is that I stopped trying to create my own Christian religion as I thought best, and was able to allow the Orthodox and Apostolic Church to begin to recreate me according to the image of Christ. We lose a tremendous treasure when we turn away from Orthodoxy and start importing non-Orthodox teachings and practices.
We cannot love Protestants by becoming like them. And I do love the great numbers of ordinary Protestants in the UK who are just doing the best they can with the best they know. We have to preserve our Orthodox Faith in its fulness if we are to have any good news left to share with them. Now it may well be that some of the aspects of Protestantism which are being introduced are actually symptoms of some other issue. Perhaps there are not enough good and simple explanations of our faith? Perhaps many do not understand Coptic hymns and therefore do not benefit from them. Perhaps some find the Protestant way of faith less demanding that our own? Perhaps none of this is properly explained. All of these issues need dealing with by those in a position to do so.
But if we allow the salt of our Orthodox Faith to lose its savour then what judgement will come upon us? If we allow the light of our Orthodox Faith to go out what will happen to our candlestick?
Father Peter
I think that is probably where we most disagree. There truly is not one cohesive organized protestant church, in fact many of them do not even get along. What unites them is their common beliefs and their common source. These main beliefs are shared by all of protestantism and lead to many different things, as detailed in my book nobody bought except ilovesaintmark, Fr. Peter is the exception because I sent it to him. Then again I think both Fr. Peter and I make good points on this subject and defend our position well. So I cant very well say Fr. Peter is wrong but that we disagree on this particular point. What we should focus on is our common goal, to keep protestantism out of the church. I would continue to write but I think its redundant to write things people are not going to buy.
I must say, that first video was quite..no..extremely.. no.. EXCEPTIONALLY INORDINATELY.. disturbing.
Is it considered a sin watching these? My gut is telling me to confess right now.
It's clear that he is possessed by an evil spirit (proof: first 2 minutes of the video).
I must say, that first video was quite..no..extremely.. no.. EXCEPTIONALLY INORDINATELY.. disturbing.
Is it considered a sin watching these? My gut is telling me to confess right now.
TITL I should have put a warning on these, for that I apologize. So the blame lies solely with me. I dont believe it is a sin to watch these because we are informing ourselves as to what is out there. We are not participating in this nonsense. I apologize TITL
I dont believe it is a sin to watch these because we are informing ourselves as to what is out there. We are not participating in this nonsense.
You sure? That's like saying watching porn isn't wrong since I'm not participating, and merely just informing myself.
This is probably just as bad or even worse. That guy is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. What can be worse than watching someone do the unforgivable sin?
I really don't think such videos should be watched unless it's for research purposes. In your case it's fine since you're writing books, but I'm not sure how beneficent these videos are to the rest of us. Stuff like that should not be posted on here.
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=9747.msg119442#msg119442
I dont believe it is a sin to watch these because we are informing ourselves as to what is out there. We are not participating in this nonsense.
You sure? That's like saying watching porn isn't wrong since I'm not participating, and merely just informing myself.
This is probably just as bad or even worse. That guy is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. What can be worse than watching someone do the unforgivable sin?
I really don't think such videos should be watched unless it's for research purposes. In your case it's fine since you're writing books, but I'm not sure how beneficent these videos are to the rest of us. Stuff like that should not be posted on here.
TITL, I dont think its good to watch these for fun, or to get a kick out of them. It is indeed bad. Making a comparison with pornography tho I dont think is fair. If your watching porn for informative or research and are not affected by it, which is nearly impossible, then I guess ok. Most of the time, if not all the time, people are indeed participating in pornography, in a special way I guess you could say lol.
I am not sure people fled from Arius because of what he said, no they learned his theology in order to combat it.
I dont believe it is a sin to watch these because we are informing ourselves as to what is out there. We are not participating in this nonsense.
TITL, I dont think its good to watch these for fun, or to get a kick out of them. It is indeed bad. Making a comparison with pornography tho I dont think is fair. If your watching porn for informative or research and are not affected by it, which is nearly impossible, then I guess ok. Most of the time, if not all the time, people are indeed participating in pornography, in a special way I guess you could say lol.
I am not sure people fled from Arius because of what he said, no they learned his theology in order to combat it.
You're right, the videos you posted are more harmful to us than porn is. We are affected by everything we watch (i'm not talking in a special way, ew.) Watching others teach against our doctrine is very dangerous to our spiritual lives if we aren't stable in our believes.
I'm one of those people that don't like watching or listening to protestants. I have a hard time differentiating between what is right and wrong. I'm not saying that video shook my faith though lol. I'm just trying to say that these videos are more harmful than beneficial, and that they should not be posted for everyone to watch.
But when we are exposed to protestant and non-Orthodox teachings I do think that they can often be more insidious because they do not always appear in a way which challenges our faith or which alerts us to be careful.
For instance, if a programme comes on the TV with nudity then if we are spiritual at all we will be aware that this is a matter we should do something about and will turn the programme off, skip forward on the DVD, or leave the room for a while.
But if we pick up a book that advertises itself as encouraging a more committed Christian life, then a younger or less mature Orthodox Christian may be attracted. The book might criticise some of our Orthodox faith while not saying anything too aggressive. The book might mention the ever-virginity of the Virgin Mary, and quietly drop some false ideas into the readers head. "The Bible clearly says that the Virgin Mary was only a virgin UNTIL she gave birth. If we want to properly respect and venerate the Virgin Mary we must accept what the Bible says and cannot accept that she was always a virgin". The reader takes this in, and even if not immediately convinced still bears the seed of this idea which may well take root.
A person who is tempted in a sexual way will probably confess this to their spiritual father and ask for help. But someone who has started to doubt the ever-virginity of the Virgin Mary will not want to raise this with their spiritual father. Either they will not want to openly disagree with him, or they will start to doubt his knowledge of the faith, thinking that their own developing opinions must be true.
So although I do think that sexual sins are deadly, especially when they become habitual, I do also think that allowing ourselves to be subtly infected by heresy is even more deadly because it usually takes place un-noticed and it does not become obvious until it is almost too late and the person has fallen way from the Orthodox Apostolic Faith.
Father Peter
Thanks for your post Father Peter =)
Please forgive me.