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Should Santa Claus be banned?
Hi,
I would like to present to you a few dangers that arise with stories like Santa Claus, and leave you to answer the question:
Should we, as Christians, be associating ourselves with Santa Claus? Is this edifying?
Why I am asking is as follows:
The only Christian teaching most Christians have in the west is of Santa Claus, 3 wise men, Christmas trees, presents etc..
There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that, in my opinion, but far-fetched stories, like a man who rides on a raindeer driven slate, and comes down chimineys to give presents to little kids, although the character is genuinely more admirable than Batman, or Superman, it is not true.
The character "Santa Claus" may have evolved from the life of a real saint (I think it would be saint Nicholas), but when we start to add lies, or exaggerate the truth about the life of a saint, we fall in a huge pit: Their lives are examples for us. We end up glorifying the saint MORE than God. This is not right.
He is not the reason why we celebrate Christmas.
But more importantly, my concern is this:
The sole Christian education most people receive IS from stories of Santa Claus. If this story has become so far-fetched that 80% is now fiction, and the Church seems to support it, then what else are supporting that isn't true??
You wonder why Christians in the west are losing faith and becoming atheists, and I really believe that this is the ultimate reason. They can easily come to the conclusion that if such characters are not true, nor the events in their lives are not true, and we have endorsed them, then why should anything else be true??
What do you think??
I would like to present to you a few dangers that arise with stories like Santa Claus, and leave you to answer the question:
Should we, as Christians, be associating ourselves with Santa Claus? Is this edifying?
Why I am asking is as follows:
The only Christian teaching most Christians have in the west is of Santa Claus, 3 wise men, Christmas trees, presents etc..
There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that, in my opinion, but far-fetched stories, like a man who rides on a raindeer driven slate, and comes down chimineys to give presents to little kids, although the character is genuinely more admirable than Batman, or Superman, it is not true.
The character "Santa Claus" may have evolved from the life of a real saint (I think it would be saint Nicholas), but when we start to add lies, or exaggerate the truth about the life of a saint, we fall in a huge pit: Their lives are examples for us. We end up glorifying the saint MORE than God. This is not right.
He is not the reason why we celebrate Christmas.
But more importantly, my concern is this:
The sole Christian education most people receive IS from stories of Santa Claus. If this story has become so far-fetched that 80% is now fiction, and the Church seems to support it, then what else are supporting that isn't true??
You wonder why Christians in the west are losing faith and becoming atheists, and I really believe that this is the ultimate reason. They can easily come to the conclusion that if such characters are not true, nor the events in their lives are not true, and we have endorsed them, then why should anything else be true??
What do you think??
Comments
The fact is that the vast majority of people in the UK WANT to be associated with Christianity. What puts them off is the Church and the Churches.
What are WE doing to reach people with the fulness of the Good News about Jesus Christ? There is no-one and nothing to blame but ourselves.
In my local Anglican Church there is no mention of Father Christmas, but there is a Nativity services which is usually full. Likewise the local Churches will all put on Nativity plays. Father Christmas is not the problem, rather Father Christmas is merely a symptom of the real problem. The Church, the Orthodox Church, is not sharing the Christian Faith.
I have never belonged to a Church that ever said anything about Father Christmas. Christmas has always been a time to consider the Nativity of our Lord. But if the Churches do not share this message then we have only ourselves to blame. We cannot blame Protestants or Catholics - especially if we are among those who do not consider them even Christian. If we are the only Christians then every lost soul whom we have not shared the faith with will be accounted to us in the judgement.
The Bible is very clear, judgement begins with the Church. It is not profitable to blame others for the problems which lie at our door. There are three months till Christmas. What will OUR Churches be doing to share the true message of Christmas?
Father Peter
I don't think that Father Christmas has anything at all to do with the loss of Christian faith in the West.
The fact is that the vast majority of people in the UK WANT to be associated with Christianity. What puts them off is the Church and the Churches.
What are WE doing to reach people with the fulness of the Good News about Jesus Christ? There is no-one and nothing to blame but ourselves.
In my local Anglican Church there is no mention of Father Christmas, but there is a Nativity services which is usually full. Likewise the local Churches will all put on Nativity plays. Father Christmas is not the problem, rather Father Christmas is merely a symptom of the real problem. The Church, the Orthodox Church, is not sharing the Christian Faith.
I have never belonged to a Church that ever said anything about Father Christmas. Christmas has always been a time to consider the Nativity of our Lord. But if the Churches do not share this message then we have only ourselves to blame. We cannot blame Protestants or Catholics - especially if we are among those who do not consider them even Christian. If we are the only Christians then every lost soul whom we have not shared the faith with will be accounted to us in the judgement.
The Bible is very clear, judgement begins with the Church. It is not profitable to blame others for the problems which lie at our door. There are three months till Christmas. What will OUR Churches be doing to share the true message of Christmas?
Father Peter
Oh, please don't misunderstand me:
I AM blaming the Church for supporting invalid/untrue stories of saints. The Church who is part of Saint Nicholas' denomination should have corrected the story ages ago.
You don't see that if an untrue story, no matter how charming it is, is allowed to propagate and is not denounced by a Church, then they (the Church) are at fault.
Such stories only cause Christians to say to themselveS: "if this story is so false, then what else is false in the Christian traditions".
Do you see my point? I agree, the fault is with the Church.
Father Peter
I don't agree I am afraid. I have never been part of a church that taught Father Christmas. I have seen many churches that do not do evangelism.
Father Peter
You've never been in Stevenage at Christmas time and there's been a play for Children with Santa Claus in there?
Even if our Church doesn't do anything pertaining to Santa Claus, do you see the problems that could arise by adding fiction to fact in a religious character??
We have not done enough, and instead of being steadfast we adopt the same flawed systems.
I agree wholeheartedly with Fr. Peter in both of his posts. We WE WEEE are not doing our jobs and our proper witness.
We have not done enough, and instead of being steadfast we adopt the same flawed systems.
lol.. do you think WE, WEE, US, the Church should correct the story of Santa Claus???
There are many things in the world which are not true. Our job is not to focus on these but just to share the truth.
I should just sign Fr. Peter's posts with him, because he expresses my thoughts even before I have a chance to say them.
Fr. Peter, please just add my name to all of your posts. Sign it: Fr. Peter and his son in Christ ilovesaintmark.
I don't think I can disagree with anything you have ever said.
We can be Father and son.
It would also save me having to do penance for all of the nasty and obnoxious things that I spew forth. It would save me a lot of typing.
Of course not. We should teach the nativity. We should not teach Father Christmas.
There are many things in the world which are not true. Our job is not to focus on these but just to share the truth.
yes, but the story of Santa Claus, as it is being told to children at their schools, is not accurate.
You're failing to see my point. If we accept untrue things that have been added about our saints, then this could be causative in damaging the faith others.
There are many false things out there.. but this is ONE false thing that pertains to the Church: the fictionalised story of a saint that actually did exist.
We have a limited resource to doing things. You can think of as a small shop. We cannot taken huge tasks that a multi-chain department store (at this point). We should take care of our own affairs to the best, provide a good product, a clean and healthy atmosphere, stand by our product, good customer service. I believe this to be a good metaphor to get the point across.
Zoxsasi,
We have a limited resource to doing things. You can think of as a small shop. We cannot taken huge tasks that a multi-chain department store (at this point). We should take care of our own affairs to the best, provide a good product, a clean and healthy atmosphere, stand by our product, good customer service. I believe this to be a good metaphor to get the point across.
I just wanted to be sure that you and Fr. Peter understood my point. Whether you agree/disagree is fine with me.
I tend to look at things with a corporate level at times. Basically, how to best expend resources.
I do know of many people who are not Christians because no-one has explained the faith to them, or shown then a Christian example of life, or are not Christians because Christians are divided and do not seem to love even each other.
I have a dear enquirer who regularly attends liturgy. He is not yet committed to being a Christian. He has never mentioned that the story of Father Christmas disuades him.
It seems to me that the issue is not that those who are not Christians are being taught error, rather that those who say they know the truth are not sharing it.
How many Churches will be standing in the streets this Winter giving out leaflets about the true meaning of Christmas? Quite a few I imagine. How many will be Orthodox? Not so many I guess.
Father Peter
I also understand your point of view.
Phew. lol
:) I know 1000's. They are atheists. Unfortunately, after talking to many of them + hearing this topic raised every year on talk shows and radio stations, people are lazy in understanding their own religion. They tend to make assumptions based on what they see and hear.
For example, without studying Islam, it would not surprise me that the Islamic prophet started the idea of killing infidels. I got this impression from what I see around me.
Do you not see that the expression of the Christian faith around others affects their personal faith?
I know this is weak of them. I agree on that.
For example - apparently, if I remember correctly, 80% of catholics lost their faith due to the pedophile scandal that hit the Church.
What Im trying to say is that a lot of people expect what they "See" to teach them about the faith - not necessarily what they've learnt from books or in private study.
Which is a fair statement, given that we even pick the faith up from our own parents as Children. If parents go off and tell their kids the story of Santa Claus (for example) of a man that climbs down chimneys and rides on cloud jumping raindeers, when these children go older, they will easily believe that IF this story was passed onto them as "true" - what else was passed onto them this way?? That would apply to every situation, even in this case. But ultimately, what Im trying to say is that fictionalized stories of saints should be corrected as it doesn't help them grow in faith. Would you agree that there are many stories being told to the faithful, whether young or old, that are of a Christian nature, that are not true? It would be fine if they were myth, but when Christians celebrate myths, or engage in them, surely this is giving the wrong signal to children.
You are talking more along the lines of adults who are now IN your Church. That's an excellent situation he is in. But encouraging people to go to Church starts from childhood, and I think such stories may not be good for their spiritual growth. They may not be able to differentiate - AS CHILDREN, what is fact, and what is fiction.
How do we share it? Good point... You don't see that what is myth (fr. Christmas) is more relevant to our British culture than what is fact (Jesus Christ). If you stand in the street dressed as Santa Claus, kids will come up to you and take a picture with you.
If you wear a priestly garment and tell everyone "Ho ho ho... Christ took flesh in order to die for you, and save you" - who would come to see you? Who would be willing to hear u??
See? The story of a saint - turned myth, fictionalised, is gaining more importance at Christmas time than Jesus Christ.
The chain of thought i had was to de-fictionlize him and perhaps by correcting the errors of what the media has done to Saint Nicholas, we can glorify God THROUGH his saints, rather than Glorifying the saint on the expense of God, as what has been happening since we allowed errors on the life of this saint to embed itself in our culture.
I just don't think Santa is the issue.
I do not recall in my life having ever believed in Santa. I do not recall my parents ever presenting him to us in any form in our childhood. I guess we turned out okay.
I just don't think Santa is the issue.
I know at least 2 stories that led to atheism because the child was taught that Santa was real by their parents.
Rather than explain the true story of Saint Nicholas, whose feast is on the 6th of December, they explained the fictionalized character "Santa Claus" to kids.
What do you think this does to their faith? When you buy kids presents and tell them that it is from a character that doesn't exist. What is your word worth afterwards when ever you talk to them about God who does exist??
His Holiness was saying that faith in God starts from the mother, or parents. If they feed their children nonsense, and engage in it themselves, what will be the spiritual makeup of that child when they come of age??
I know a story of a child who believed that his christmas presents came from Santa. His parents bought them for him. When they told him, later on in life, that Santa does not exist, this shattered him.
It really shattered him.
There's another story where children were encouraged to Call Santa on an 08000 number to speak to Santa. This is completely wrong.
These false beliefs, if portrayed or encouraged by actual Christian people, will only serve to cause damage in Children when they begin to realise that Santa is a fake; they will come to the conclusion that IF santa is a fake, or a myth based on a true story of a real saint, then what about everything else they hear from the Bible? Is that fake or myth???
You are destroying the faith in Children.
Father Peter, you may not know people who have become atheist due to such incidents, but I do and I have spoken to some of them about it. It does start with such myths.
If you feel this is a problem then do something about it.
You can see I disagree and think that the issue is the Church. The world is always the world. But if the Church is not the Church then it is not salt and light in the world. That is what I think the problem is.
You may well know a couple of people, but the vast majority are not atheists and the vast majority of atheists have not become so because of Father Christmas. In the UK no Churches are teaching that Father Christmas is St Nicholas because his feast day is December 6th.
Father Peter
I am not sure what you want anyone to say?
I was interested in hearing other opinions, points of view, or experiences where anyone else knew of how such false stories of Church Saints had a domino effect on someone's faith that ultimately led them to atheism. Actually, i never really felt strongly about this until of late. In fact, I used to love to go up to a white bearded santa claus man in the street and take pictures with him as a child. Although I was a bit shaken by the fact that he turned out not to be the person who would be responsible for buying me presents as a Child, I had a strong Christian foundation that helped build a strong faith.
My only point was that some people do not have this foundation that we are blessed to have. They cannot help but make the assumption that if this story if false, and I put all my hopes in a man with a white beard that didnt exist, why should I put my hopes in a God that may very well not exist either?
But don't worry Fr. Peter, I was just summarising my thoughts. You are welcome not to agree, or think this is unimportant.
I just know of some distant relations that this happened to, and it did lead them to have a doubt that God exists.
As for doing something about it, I will. What do you suggest the Church does? I would have thought that the Church should correct misconceptions about one of its own saints.
without having to go into the streets and preach about Christ, by the mere fact of spreading the truth about a Saint, you've evangelised, as the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth that should ultimately guide the church and the faithful in all aspects of their lives. (IMHO)
Well, I know 3 people who ended up not believing in God from coming to the understanding that, as a Child, they were taught that Fr. Christmas was a true Character, only to find that he was fake. Their families are not that religious to have been able to foster a stronger faith in their Children, so the children grew to be weary of the Christian God as His "Christian Saints" were highly fictionalised.
This led to the conclusion that if such an incident has led to atheism in 3 persons, what about entire generations?
But its fine... I was concerned, that's all. You don't need to agree with me. I think they should teach the true story of Saint Nicholas. He is a remarkable saint. As I said, what bothers me is that we should glorify God through His Saints, not glorify the saint at the expense of God, which is what I feel Christmas has amounted to in most European countries.
(corrected for typos)
I hope you do not take this comment as a full-frontal attack. I mean it only in a fraternal ribbing fashion.
Would you be carrying out the same thought process for the Easter Bunny?
I have a feeling you are going to come hunting for me now for this comment.
Saint Nicholas does not live at the North Pole, is not married to Mrs Christmas, does not make toys, does not employ elves, and does not ride a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer. Father Christmas ceased to have anything to do with Saint Nicholas a very long time ago, indeed in the UK he never had anything much to do with Saint Nicholas in any case, which is why December 6th passes without comment in the UK.
If people do not have a foundation in the faith, as you describe from your own experience, then THAT is what they need. They need to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If someone who had no faith was taught some of the stories of Saint Nicholas, and researched the history of the development of the modern Father Christmas in the last century, they would know more about those subjects, but they would still be without faith.
Has anyone evangelised the people you mention? Has anyone taught them properly about Christ? If not then they were not really Christians in any case.
What the world needs is Christ, and the knowledge of the Gospel of Christ. This thread will probably cause me to produce a small leaflet about the Nativity and get it printed so that I can stand in the street with some of my congregation and distribute them during December to the people of our town.
Father Peter
I get the impression you do not see that "Father Christmas" is the fictionalised character of Saint Nicholas?!
I feel that any saint, whose story has been fictionalised ought to be corrected by the Church.
Regardless of any of this, whether he is a fictionalised character of a real saint, or someone created to just tell kids sweet stories, I don't think the Church, or the Coptic faithful, should engage in teaching their kids stories of myth COMBINED with religion. That's the problem. Children, at a young age, believe anything you tell them.
Has anyone taught them these people about Christ? No - not at all. But what their families HAVE taught them is that Christmas presents come from a saint called Fr. Christmas.
But your point, Fr. Peter, is valid. I still think that if a story of a saint has been fictionalised, then it ought to be corrected. It doesnt take that much effort.
In France, at least, perhaps being a catholic country, we call Fr. Christmas Pere Noel. (same as in the UK), but many people also call the red man with the white beard (who lives in the North Pole) Saint Nicholas also.
Maybe for you, in the UK, they are different. I'm surprised, as even whilst I lived in the UK, he was also known as Saint Nicholas, and he lived in the north pole also.
You see?
If you go and "fake" or fictionalise his story to young kids, add myth to it, jazz it up, and tell them he is a saint, then you're not only doing injustice to a saint who did in fact exist, but you've affected their faith - generally.
If the two (Santa Claus and Saint Nikolaous) were NOT the same people, or if Santa Claus was not the fictionalised story of the Saint Nikolaous, I wouldnt mind. But from where I was raised, as well as other people, they are the same person whose story has become so obsucred by mythology and folklore intertwined with religion, it is hard to separate the truth from fiction in the minds of young children.
Its not evident - especially if parents do not practice their faith, nor know it that well.
So, the easter bunny is OK.. there's no saint that this bunny represents.
I don't have to trivialise, fantacise , or fictionalise a story of a saint to go and give kids easter eggs.
Sasi,
I hope you do not take this comment as a full-frontal attack. I mean it only in a fraternal ribbing fashion.
Would you be carrying out the same thought process for the Easter Bunny?
I have a feeling you are going to come hunting for me now for this comment.
OK.. will me talking to my children about the easter bunny affect their faith??
Does the easter bunny do miracles that I make children believe in, associate it with God, and tell them when they're a bit older : "IT WAS NT REAL"
If the easter bunny will cause my children to falter in their faith, and knowledge of God, then yes, I would do that also with the easter bunny.
The Easter Egg Hunt, isn't that part of the Easter Bunny.
iLoveSaintMark,
I care about kids and what you teach them. Perhaps you were thinking more on a grandeur scale at adults and atheism in general.
I care that parents, who may not even believe in God, do not unwittingly deny their children a good grounding for faith in God, by telling them religious stories with myth and folklore tales all over it.
Can you imagine how it would seem to a child hearing these stories who are then told that its all fake?
Im just thinking about kids ILoveSaintMark,
As for the Easter Egg Hunt, I always win that, so that's not changing. There's no point.
Surely that is only the responsibility of the Church.
The problem with Father Christmas is not the loose connection with St Nicholas, but the rampant materialism which surrounds that time of year. The solution is to preach the Nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I am seriously thinking of designing a leaflet to be distributed, perhaps offering something more substantial like a video to those who want to know more. There are many people caught up in the materialism of the season, but there are also many who are alone, feeling depressed, separated from family, widowed, unemployed etc etc. They need to be given the opportunity to hear Good News for the poor.
Father Peter
We are proud {sarcasm to the nth degree} to have no interaction with those around us.