Hello All.
I was notified of this site over a year ago and today I decided to join. Thank you so much for all those who manage this site because you offer a great service to me and the rest of the community.
Now, on to the topic of deaconesses. I have read many posts concerning the role of women in the Church and there has been much speculation to what that consists of. I would just like to inform those who are curious about the issue of deaconesses that the Southern Diocese in California is very slowly beginning to give a role to female youth and those older. This all began seven or so years ago when a group of young females were given the blessing from the His Holiness and the Bishop of that region to begin some sort of order for girls. They were at first called "deaconesses" but it was corrected and they were then called the "ecclesiastical choir" since it was not an official order of the church yet. This choir, starting from a specific church, then extended to the rest of the churches in the diocese.
I was blessed and given the opportunity to become a "deaconess" (for lack of a better term)a short time after the first group was blessed. I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that this has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. Serving and being part of the church has been a great blessing. Over the years, the "deaconesses" have gained more roles, but of course, the change has been very slow. For the time being, there is one church in specific that has been active and advocating a concrete role for females, just as the early church had, but we are patient. God willing, in due time, the church will reinstate the order, but that of course is a long-term goal. In the meantime, we serve humbly.
If anyone would like to know details, please feel free to ask me any questions of our specific roles or how this came to be. If I am not able to answer any a specific question, I will be able to give you a contact number.
God Bless.
Comments
I see that you understand the distinction and i thank you for that. but i pray, please despite the "lack of a better term" statment, don't keep using the term on what it is not.....use the term that is currently used, as you have said, "ecclesiastical choir."
However, thanks for sharing your opinion.
Could you spell out in more detail the kind of function this order plays?
1. Showing up dressed improperly
2. Singing with a nasal tone
3. Everybody and their grandmother is named a deacon
4. Idolize CIA
5. Think incessantly about the chants and learning how to hold the microphone as close to your mouth as possible
6. Rock star syndrome.
Sorry for sounding sarcastic, but I have too much ammunition from current conduct and affairs.
When it comes to singing, during vespers the deacons and the deaconesses alternate verses. Basically, we lead the side of the women which has been the the latest advancement ( Thank God!). So since this has been fairly new, since approximately September 2010, we are just trying to gain support from the congregation before any further adjustments are made concerning our role in the liturgy, but so far, it has been great!
During the liturgy, we dress in our "tonias" which are blessed by the Fathers before every church service, and we sit in the front rows and sing.Our other basic roles in the liturgy is managing the children during communion, administering the water after the Blood, ushering, as well as any tasks the women in the congregation ask of us.
We also have been doing visitations to the widows of the church as well as to the homes of the younger deaconesses which, I must admit, have subsided over the holidays but hopefully we'll start back up again.
Another one of our roles is to write an article about a Female Saint from the church's history which is then featured in the church's monthly magazine which is distributed to over a thousand families living in several different countries. We don't want the Mothers of the Church to be forgotten! We also layout a weekly manual that is given out on Sundays to the congregation which contain the readings of the day.
Our roles are not many, but the most important role we have is that we serve as role models to the younger girls in our church, encouraging them that it is beneficial for them also to learn the hymns and become active in the Body of Christ.
Even though these functions are few we have, through the grace of God, we have been blessed with these tasks and given the honor to serve Him. This all did not come easy and still does not come easy, but He continues to fight for us.
And plus, we are not just "girls who sing".
Yes.....and i guess i was a little harsh to say that.....
but you are also not "deaconesses"......i am mistaken?
the term "deacon" is already corrupted nowadays to be a person who sings....that is wrong. in fact the LOWEST rank of deaconship is for those who "sing"
now why should bring back a respectful rank/duty/service in the Church and corrupt it and mislead others. I personally would rather not bring the rank back at all and keep it with its own reverence. The rank is NOT dead at all. Many widows are true deaconesses in Egypt.
[hr]
Let me list what the Church says:
(http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/sacraments/7_priesthood.html)
DEACONNESSES IN THE CHURCH
In the early church there were deaconesses helping the Apostles, and later they served with the bishops and priests in various services. Initially, the service was only available to widowed women over the age of sixty. The Apostolic Canons
imposed a condition that deaconess must be virgin, or widow, and over the age of sixty.
St. Paul cared about the subject of widowed deaconesses in the first church and wrote about them in the fifth chapter of his first epistle to his disciple Timothy. According to our teacher St. Paul, the conditions for a successful deaconess are :
A widow who has been the wife of one man (1 Timothy 5:9), or virgin.
If a widow, she must not be under sixty years, so that she not become a stumbling block in the service, because of her youthfulness, or intention of remarrying.
She must be recognized for her vitreous deeds, manners, and previous service. “If she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she diligently followed every good work, with a reputation for good works, if she has brought up children.”
Examples of these successful deaconesses are : Phoebe, who was commended by St. Paul for the church of Rome, “I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church of Cenchrea, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also” (Romans 16:1,2).
She wrote the epistles to the Romans, as dictated by our teacher St. Paul, and carried it to the believers in Rome.
We also hear about other deaconesses, and a disciple of St. Paul, called Tekla. She believed, was baptized and became a disciple of St. Paul who assigned her for service in Iconia, her original homeland. She faced many tribulations and torture, but the Lord saved her every time, she spent all her life in service. Then when she was eighty years old, she secluded herself for meditation, then peacefully passed away in old age, after a long and faithful service.
The Greek Sixaxarium praised her saying, “Hail to St. Tekla who was martyred without shedding blood!” The Coptic church celebrates her death on the 23rd of Tut every year. The blessing of her prayers may be with us. Amen.
From the thirteenth century, the service of consecrated deaconesses in church was abolished, but due to the urgent need for the service of women in church, His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, decided to revive this rite, on the Feast of Pentecost in 1981, by consecration of a large number of deaconesses for the service of Cairo churches. Today, many bishops have also consecrated deaconesses for the service within their dioceses.
During the Holy Synod meeting on the feast of Pentecost in 1992, the Synod established certain rites and conditions, pertaining to the order of Consecration for the Consecrated Deaconess. The following are some points:
It is well known that the rank of deaconess in church is not a priestly rank. There is no Priesthood for women. St. Mary the mother of the Incarnated God and the Lady of the heavenly and earthly did not have any priestly rank, although she was a spiritual mother for the apostles and was accompanying them in service.
The ranks of deaconesses are similar to those of deacons that is Ognostis, Epideacon, and Deacon, corresponding to Consecrated, Assistant Deaconess, and Deaconess.
The rite is called the ‘Rite of Consecration of the Consecrated.’
The consecration, which is done by a bishop, is performed without the laying on of hands, which is different from priestly ordinations.
These prayers take place in a private mass for women as their service is not for the entire congregation, but for a specific sector of them.
Unlike the deacons, their prayers do not take place after the Reconciliation Prayer, so they are not considered as priestly dedication.
....(you can read the rest in the link above)....
but latter in the text, there are prayers in the service that a the Bishop does.....one part says their duties (you can copy and paste the text to find it's context on the link above):
O Lord who knows our weakness, perfect Your maid-servants to serve women, visit the patients and those who do not come to church, serve the poor and needy, help on the Baptismal day of adult women, teach the catechumens, organize women in church, empower them for edification and good example. Sanctify them and enlighten them. Give them wisdom, as You are blessed and glorified O Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” All respond, “Lord have mercy.”
ALSO later in the text for the service of full deaconesses:
Helping the priest during the Baptism of elderly adult women (not in the Rite or Prayer but in caring) as the priest has only to place his hand on the baptized woman’s head while she is in the Baptismal font, dipping her thrice in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, then after she gets out of the font, she gets dressed. The priest then comes back and gives her the Sacrament of Myron, anointing only those parts of her body which appear. The presence of a deaconess during the process of a female adult being baptized is preferable, because she may assist her with what should be done before and after Baptism.
Organizing the seating of women in church
Organize those coming for Communion, that is, the deaconess must ensure that they must be Coptic Orthodox Christians who practice confession regularly, also modestly dressed for appearance must be carefully regarded if coming to have the Holy Communion. A woman must cover her head and hold a linen veil in her hand as preparation for Communion. Thus she helps the priest for Communion of women.
Helping in the service of young girls and women in church meetings.
Visiting young girls and women to encourage them to come to church for masses and meetings.
She can help in Sunday School Service by attracting children to come through her tenderness.
She can serve in the church’s child care center, for she would be the best person to endure a child, cherish them and help in their upbringing.
She can work and serve in various church social services, such as serving widows, needy and poor.
She can serve the orphans..
She can work and serve in nursing homes, looking after the needs of the elderly, whether it be food, health, cleaning or nursing.
Visitation of sick women, whether at their houses or hospitals, giving them a word of comfort, as well as speaking the word of God. She represents the church in caring for them and tells the priest about cases in need of Communion or visitation.
Supervising women’s activities in church, such as sewing, and so on.
Supervising the cleaning of the church and organizing its furniture – except for the sanctuary where no woman can enter.
Supervising administrative departments at the church’s or bishopric’s clinics.
Supervising youth (girls) houses who are in desperate need of accommodation and care. Their supervision is for their protection and success.
Service of wayward girls who need spiritual care and guidance.
Service of handicapped girls or women, to help them live a normal, spiritual and psychological life.
We all come dresses appropriately and on time, we actually do not have a microphone so when we lead we learn to depend on each other and sing together in harmony which I personally am very proud of.
Girls have to be at least the age of ten to be blessed, which those in charge are trying to make mandatory, so the seriousness of this service is not taken away.
And we do not sound nasally! (:
Our church is actually doing a fairly good job in raising a great group of future deacons and deaconess that are learning from the start to depend on each other ( not to sound too proud!) I just believe it is important to highlight on the good in a service at time since we mostly are critical and tend to look at the bad.
It is improper for the robes that you use in the service to be blessed by any priest. There is no such mandate from the Holy Synod. This "let's play like we are mature", or "let's pretend that we are an order" is nonsense.
I can only put in a blunt fashion, because I see a fantasy developing. The only way to quash a fantasy is put reality in direct perspective.
The outlines for a deaconess are addressed by St. Paul and by the edicts and canons of the Holy Synod.
You are misrepresenting yourself by calling yourself a "deaconess".
I do appreciate your spirit for wanting to be involved and to learn.
I also am a strong believer that in this time in age, females are in need of a role in the church. Culture tends to sometimes overpower the religious perspectives on certain issues and this is one of them. We can no longer turn a blind eye to the role, or lack of a role, of woman in the church. This service is doing nothing at all to contradict the Faith. It does not seek extremism, but rather to a role that is should be categorized as normal in the Coptic Orthodox Church, and all Oriental churches, in the 21st century. The time has come that a part of the community needs to be allowed the ability to serve and given tasks rather than just be told that there is a "role for men and then one for women" but never specified.
And I am doubtful of your reasoning not to bring back the rank, but you are entitled to your own opinion. This was just to inform the greater community that there are advancements being made.
And with all due respect, do not call me "cutie". I am not a child.
Yes, minatasgeel, I realize that there is reverence owed to the term since there are may be true deaconesses in Egypt. But I also believe that it is necessary to use the term, and note the difference, so others realize that being a choir is not our ending point.
than call you're self servants....whatever you wanna call yourself (and i say that with all due respect) but, again and also again, do NOT CORRUPT the term.....it's not about "[noting] the difference" as you say but about the true meaning of the term. Call yourself a "CHOIR" and "note the difference." I am sorry but since when they "lost" their role in Church?! it's not good enough to be a sunday school anymore?! it's not good to serve in other things in Church anymore?! I am sorry to say this, but it's not really my opinion anymore. Read the true role of deaconess in the link below. It is the belief of the Church. After all, if the term was to meant to be used anymore, why have the Pope and the Bishop choose to call you "ecclesiastical choir"?
Let me guess, you are somewhere around 60 years old as prescribed by St. Paul and the Holy Synod. That is the only term of Deaconess that I know exists in the Coptic Church.
I believe, in your zeal and fervor, you have over-reached on some things that were presented to cute little girls that wish to get involved. Please do not express yourself as a deaconess. You are proving that you are not aware of the seriousness of the issue.
I would also word the same points to the little boys, who are still in their pull-up diapers as being called deacons. It is plain stupid and wrong.
You do not possess a tonia. His Holiness never sanctioned such an action, and I can say that definitively. There is no such mandate from the Holy Synod. The Holy Synod would have to approve such an issue.
You can silence my biting comments with just a simple reference for the record number of a Papal Decree or the Holy Synod. There is none.
Well an age limit has to be set, so ten years old was the limit. For the record, I am sharing my experience with this blessing, and just offering insight. And if one sees a problem with the blessing of the tunic, then take it up with the Pope and the Bishop of the diocese as well as the the priests in these churches that encourage this.
i don't think its a big deal.....it's probably better to see girls in church with proper clothes than most girls wear now. but it's not what a person that gets him to heaven........same with deacons really. please excuse ILSM.....he can get a bit extreme when he is strongly motivated to argue.
The issue of the celibacy of the bishop was addressed in the Canons of Nicea. The issue of the role of bishop, as addressed by the Great St. Paul, was relative to the milieu.
(I am not a female btw, but the Church's attitude to women has bothered me for a long time).
what is going on people?!......how is the women being ranked down in our Church? please tell me.
The people who make such comments do not want to respect their Church as a Mother. They may be misguided. They may be caught on the fashion of Westernism.
The Church is open for everyone. Everyone has a role. Each person has to seek out, understand, and assume their role for the betterment of the entire Community.
If a woman wants to be respected, she should act like a lady. If a man wants to be respected, he should act like a gentleman.
It's actually quite simple.
It is extremely wonderful! We, the group at my church, try to stay active and serve to the best of our abilities.
At first, there was backlash from the older, more conservative members of our congregation, (and there are many of them since we have over 500 families!) but over the years they have learned to either accept, and some actually became supporters, or keep their opinions to themselves. However, I cannot speak for those in other churches in the diocese but I am sure there was criticism.
Currently, there are those who are trying to to reinstate an official rank, preferably that of epsaltos at first, in the Southern Diocese. But this may take a long while so we serve to do what we can now. As far as I know, I believe a Bishop of one Hispanic country (I'm hesisitant to state which one because I am not sure on which country) is seriosuly considering this rank in his parish after seeing the group serving at my church. But right now, the "go-to" person is trying to reinstate the order in the sountern CA region before considering other countries, but I encourage you, if you feel passionately about this, to bring this up to Fathers of your church and if you need a contact person for more insight, I can most likely help you with that. However, it is mostly up to you, or whoever, to start this. God Bless you.
My father is not a sexist and my mother is not a sexist. My mother has a role and my father has a role. Sometimes things overlap. Yet my father is my father and my mother is my mother. It does not mean that I love one more than the other. It does not mean I say the same thing to each one. It does not mean I treat them the same way in terms of time consideration. However, certain basics apply to my relationship to them: respect, love, admiration, etc.
I do not hate women in the church, nor do I put them down. But I dislike feminism with some veiled spiritual cast and coat.
Feminism is just as bad as chauvinism.