Who spray painted on the Dome of the Church of the Holy Sepluchre "Allah Akbar"? Was it the Israelis or the Palestinians?
Who helps the Coptic Jurisdiction in Jerusalem with their Schools? Israelis or Palestinians?
My dear, you are plagued by the usual stupid Anti-Semitism bread into the Coptics from their time in Egypt.
The Palestinians have been a plague as a people for even their co-religionists and have been thrown out of every single country that they have been in. I guess it was propaganda when Sadat threw them out. I guess it was propaganda when Hussein slaughtered 50,000.
I think you need to do a little reading and not fall for the usual prejudice. Where is your Christianity today? Is it on vacation in Gaza? or the West Bank?
Who spray painted on the Dome of the Church of the Holy Sepluchre "Allah Akbar"? Was it the Israelis or the Palestinians?
Who helps the Coptic Jurisdiction in Jerusalem with their Schools? Israelis or Palestinians?
My dear, you are plagued by the usual stupid Anti-Semitism bread into the Coptics from their time in Egypt.
The Palestinians have been a plague as a people for even their co-religionists and have been thrown out of every single country that they have been in. I guess it was propaganda when Sadat threw them out. I guess it was propaganda when Hussein slaughtered 50,000.
I think you need to do a little reading and not fall for the usual prejudice. Where is your Christianity today? Is it on vacation in Gaza? or the West Bank?
Maybe you should look at whatever is in your own eye before wondering where my Christianity is.
I don't have hatred toward Jews, neither do I have hatred toward Muslims or Christians.
I do have hatred toward hypocrisy and injustice.
Regardless of what the Egyptian governemnt may or may not say and they are not exempt from my critizism either.
(and by the way, there are Jews, orthodox Jews, who are against the injustice and hypocrisy of the Israeli governemnt too, are they anti-Semitic?)
But this is not about me. It is about breaches of international humanitarian law by using illegal weapons on area's where civilians are numerous (regardless of whether the inhumane, hypocritical Hamas were using them as human-shields). It is about a refusal to stop building more settlements, when again, they are in breach of the law by doing so (even their best friends admitted so recently). It is about people who were thrown out of their homes like dogs 60 years ago.
I do not think Israel should be annhilated, nor am I a fan of Ahmadinejad. I simply think that the Israeli government (as well as Hamas) are guilty, both of them are. I do not favour one over the other because of their religion. I am able to look at things as objectivly as I possibly can without letting my judgement be blurred by personal emotions and hatred.
If you choose to be hypocritical and biased, then that's your freedom, but don't go around making ad hominem arguments about brainwashing and propaganda when you yourself are clearly a victim of those exact thiings.
So you mean the Israeli Government has two scenarios in which they have developed a reason to attack those poor Palestinians:
1. They unilaterally sat around and decided to just start moving tanks into the neighborhoods and shooting. Yet, the reality is they have suffered over 5000 rocket launches at their cities for which they decided to answer back.
2. They offered them land and a nation, but they want the elimination of Israel and all of Israel. They want Jerusalem.
Can you imagine Jerusalem in the hands of the Palestinians, not to mention that it is not theirs to begin with. They are getting considerable funding from the USA, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. They can't pay their bills and are heavily ladden with corruption and they cannot control the more "forceful" elements in their pig sty.
The Palestinians are a bunch of thugs, terrorists, and ill-mannered human beings. When they decide to join the human civilized existence there can be peace, not to mention that there would not be any military reprisals.
Can you imagine sitting in a mall or day care center and having rockets land in your front.
My dear wake-up to the reality.
The Lebanese Christians put their faith in their Muslim fellow citizens, and they barely exist in Lebanon. The Copts put their faith in the hegemony of the National Movement, and they are second class citizens in their own country. So do you think that the Israelis, should put any faith in the hostilities of the Palestinians?
I think they have shown tremendous restraint.
Dude, your opinion is whitewashed with Egyptian grade school propaganda.
You do realize that the Israelis sponsored many Coptics and Ethiopians to escape Islamic and Communist persecution. You are not going to hear about that in the little grade school lessons.
As a matter of fact, a bishop of the Coptic Church is a product of that benevolence and rescue, which was done in the early 70's. You do not know the facts.
If it sounds like I'm attacking your opinion-- I AM!
Clearly some people are not fit for reasonable debate and conversation, I guess whatever fancy' school they apparently went to didn't teach them that...
I don't care what you ARE, internet phenomenon or not, what matters to me is how you conduct yourself in this conversation, a way that I see as completely unfit. They were not kind words, nor hurtful one's, simply an observation.
I do not think Israel should be annhilated, nor am I a fan of Ahmadinejad. I simply think that the Israeli government (as well as Hamas) are guilty, both of them are. I do not favour one over the other because of their religion. I am able to look at things as objectivly as I possibly can without letting my judgement be blurred by personal emotions and hatred.
this is what I said, there is no historical evidence to contradict that.
if you are sick of anti-semitism that some egyptians have (as well as some americans, europeans, etc.) then maybe you should find a better way to vent your anger and frustration.
This thread is getting out of hand. I stated my points already, but just for the fun of it:
Critizism on a government for its unjust and hypocritial acts (regardless of their pseudo-justifications) DOES NOT equal blind and stupid hatred of its people. Not to me at least.
I try not to make generalizations when talking. Others do.
Do some reading on history, learn a little, and maybe you will be able to retract some of the childish comments.
I never went to school, but I do know my history. I am up on the Palestinian issue from the perspective of Clergy in the Holy Land from the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopian, and Armenian jurisdictions.
The Palestinian Authority conducts itself in a mafia fashion, and it strong arms the hierarchs in the Holy City.
You don't seem to know beyond the CNN specials and clips. Learn a little and the "Real Truth will set you free".
[quote author=Truthsetsfree link=topic=10456.msg128011#msg128011 date=1295909027] Clearly some people are not fit for reasonable debate and conversation, I guess whatever fancy' school they apparently went to didn't teach them that...
May God have mercy.
Please don't feel disheartened, or offended.
You do not know the tone in which ILSM was speaking. Please re-READ his post without interpreting anything ulterior. Concentrate on the facts.
So, he's saying that the Egyptian schools teach a "flowered up" version of truth concerning the Israelis... its full of propaganda. That's it.
Don't read too much into it. He could have been talking to me, or anyone for that matter.
I was Pro-Palestinian until the realities of what was happening opened my eyes.
[quote author=Truthsetsfree link=topic=10456.msg128014#msg128014 date=1295910021] I don't care what you ARE, internet phenomenon or not, what matters to me is how you conduct yourself in this conversation, a way that I see as completely unfit. They were not kind words, nor hurtful one's, simply an observation.
I really think you misinterpreted the intonation of ILSM's message. Seriously.
If you re-read what he said AS IF he's addressing everyone, and not you, you'd see what he's trying to say.
Because he used the term "little grade school lessons", you think that he was being patronizing? Not at all. WHat he meant was that in Egypt, they do in fact teach kids at an early age such propaganda.
That's the point he was making. Its from an early age that anti-Israeli sentiments grow also.
Ultimately, you need to focus on the facts.. Please do not personlize whatever he said. I had the same opinion as u.
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10456.msg128050#msg128050 date=1295967188] Thank you Sasi. That was my point.
The endoctrination in Egypt is from day #1.
I think TruthSetsFree thought you were talking about his level of education, where as what you meant was its AT THAT period of education, endoctrination starts, and Egyptians are cultured to hate Israel and see it according to the propaganda that was fed to them.
TruthSetsFree,
You come across as a very intelligent person. Look at our history in correspondance. I really think you should have given ILSM the benefit of the doubt before interpreting his message as a offence.
Well, I have clearly not misinterpreted what ILSM said, since he seems so fond of bashing my opinions regardless of what those opinions are, I doubt he even reads my posts before he displays ignorance when 'answering' them and 'attacking' my opinions..
He is claiming the Palestinian authorities are thugs and concludes that my opinion is thus wrong.
I don't see a link, as I never defended the Palestinian authorities and have in fact condemned them.
It only happens that I don't defend the criminal Israeli government either.
a criminal is a criminal...
Maybe, ILSM, just maybe, you should consider learning the real truth yourself, may it set you free with the Grace of Our Lord.
and what is CNN?
I think this thread has become a waste of time, as some people as I said are not fit to have adult conversations by childlishly holding on to the same rhetoric even after being proven wrong.
this is my last post here, so feel free to ignore what I said AGAIN and reply to the imaginary internet phenomenon in your head..
[quote author=Truthsetsfree link=topic=10456.msg128053#msg128053 date=1295969498] Well, I have clearly not misinterpreted what ILSM said, since he seems so fond of bashing my opinions regardless of what those opinions are, I doubt he even reads my posts before he displays ignorance when 'answering' them and 'attacking' my opinions..
He is claiming the Palestinian authorities are thugs and concludes that my opinion is thus wrong.
I don't see a link, as I never defended the Palestinian authorities and have in fact condemned them.
It only happens that I don't defend the criminal Israeli government either.
a criminal is a criminal...
Maybe, ILSM, just maybe, you should consider learning the real truth yourself, may it set you free with the Grace of Our Lord.
and what is CNN?
I think this thread has become a waste of time, as some people as I said are not fit to have adult conversations by childlishly holding on to the same rhetoric even after being proven wrong.
this is my last post here, so feel free to ignore what I said AGAIN and reply to the imaginary internet phenomenon in your head..
I think its really a shame to mis-interpret someone's tone in their response. I admit, i do the same mistakes when I write, but if I took time to make sure every sentence could not be interpreted in a rude way, i would not bother writing anything.
Do not forget, that most of us have fast typing speeds and we want to participate in this forum whilst taking short breaks.
Again, you have said nothing wrong for anyone to criticise you, and I'm 110% sure that ILSM was not addressing his posts to you "personally".
He was stating facts actually.
I really liked this discussion and I learnt a lot of things, so its a shame that you are leaving.
I read your replies, and that is what compels me to reply. The Israeli government is not a criminal system.
Your opinion and suppositions as to their conduct is not leveled in knowing the whole specter of the issue. That is what I replied to and added the rhetoric when your replies carry a certain tone of superiority.
You do not have a full foundation in the facts and I was clearing up your misinformation, and possibly completing a circle of understanding, thus at least presenting the opposing view.
Things started out general, and they turned personal.
The following are the exact same questions that puzzle me all the time:
Why would a senior Bishop in Egypt’s Coptic church accuse Israel of spying on churches? Why does he suggest Copts are safe under Islam, when they are not?
Comments
Who spray painted on the Dome of the Church of the Holy Sepluchre "Allah Akbar"? Was it the Israelis or the Palestinians?
Who helps the Coptic Jurisdiction in Jerusalem with their Schools? Israelis or Palestinians?
My dear, you are plagued by the usual stupid Anti-Semitism bread into the Coptics from their time in Egypt.
The Palestinians have been a plague as a people for even their co-religionists and have been thrown out of every single country that they have been in. I guess it was propaganda when Sadat threw them out. I guess it was propaganda when Hussein slaughtered 50,000.
I think you need to do a little reading and not fall for the usual prejudice. Where is your Christianity today? Is it on vacation in Gaza? or the West Bank?
Truthsetsfree,
Who spray painted on the Dome of the Church of the Holy Sepluchre "Allah Akbar"? Was it the Israelis or the Palestinians?
Who helps the Coptic Jurisdiction in Jerusalem with their Schools? Israelis or Palestinians?
My dear, you are plagued by the usual stupid Anti-Semitism bread into the Coptics from their time in Egypt.
The Palestinians have been a plague as a people for even their co-religionists and have been thrown out of every single country that they have been in. I guess it was propaganda when Sadat threw them out. I guess it was propaganda when Hussein slaughtered 50,000.
I think you need to do a little reading and not fall for the usual prejudice. Where is your Christianity today? Is it on vacation in Gaza? or the West Bank?
Maybe you should look at whatever is in your own eye before wondering where my Christianity is.
I don't have hatred toward Jews, neither do I have hatred toward Muslims or Christians.
I do have hatred toward hypocrisy and injustice.
Regardless of what the Egyptian governemnt may or may not say and they are not exempt from my critizism either.
(and by the way, there are Jews, orthodox Jews, who are against the injustice and hypocrisy of the Israeli governemnt too, are they anti-Semitic?)
But this is not about me. It is about breaches of international humanitarian law by using illegal weapons on area's where civilians are numerous (regardless of whether the inhumane, hypocritical Hamas were using them as human-shields). It is about a refusal to stop building more settlements, when again, they are in breach of the law by doing so (even their best friends admitted so recently). It is about people who were thrown out of their homes like dogs 60 years ago.
I do not think Israel should be annhilated, nor am I a fan of Ahmadinejad. I simply think that the Israeli government (as well as Hamas) are guilty, both of them are. I do not favour one over the other because of their religion. I am able to look at things as objectivly as I possibly can without letting my judgement be blurred by personal emotions and hatred.
If you choose to be hypocritical and biased, then that's your freedom, but don't go around making ad hominem arguments about brainwashing and propaganda when you yourself are clearly a victim of those exact thiings.
1. They unilaterally sat around and decided to just start moving tanks into the neighborhoods and shooting. Yet, the reality is they have suffered over 5000 rocket launches at their cities for which they decided to answer back.
2. They offered them land and a nation, but they want the elimination of Israel and all of Israel. They want Jerusalem.
Can you imagine Jerusalem in the hands of the Palestinians, not to mention that it is not theirs to begin with.
They are getting considerable funding from the USA, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. They can't pay their bills and are heavily ladden with corruption and they cannot control the more "forceful" elements in their pig sty.
The Palestinians are a bunch of thugs, terrorists, and ill-mannered human beings. When they decide to join the human civilized existence there can be peace, not to mention that there would not be any military reprisals.
Can you imagine sitting in a mall or day care center and having rockets land in your front.
My dear wake-up to the reality.
The Lebanese Christians put their faith in their Muslim fellow citizens, and they barely exist in Lebanon.
The Copts put their faith in the hegemony of the National Movement, and they are second class citizens in their own country.
So do you think that the Israelis, should put any faith in the hostilities of the Palestinians?
I think they have shown tremendous restraint.
Dude, your opinion is whitewashed with Egyptian grade school propaganda.
You do realize that the Israelis sponsored many Coptics and Ethiopians to escape Islamic and Communist persecution. You are not going to hear about that in the little grade school lessons.
As a matter of fact, a bishop of the Coptic Church is a product of that benevolence and rescue, which was done in the early 70's. You do not know the facts.
If it sounds like I'm attacking your opinion-- I AM!
May God have mercy.
The Palestinians are not a poor, helpless people. They are backed with a lot of terror inspiration.
I get sick and tired of the easy anti-Semitism from our people.
I never went to school. I am just an internet phenomenon.
Thanks for the kind words, I reciprocate.
[quote author=Truthsetsfree link=topic=10456.msg128007#msg128007 date=1295906062]
I do not think Israel should be annhilated, nor am I a fan of Ahmadinejad. I simply think that the Israeli government (as well as Hamas) are guilty, both of them are. I do not favour one over the other because of their religion. I am able to look at things as objectivly as I possibly can without letting my judgement be blurred by personal emotions and hatred.
this is what I said, there is no historical evidence to contradict that.
if you are sick of anti-semitism that some egyptians have (as well as some americans, europeans, etc.) then maybe you should find a better way to vent your anger and frustration.
This thread is getting out of hand. I stated my points already, but just for the fun of it:
Critizism on a government for its unjust and hypocritial acts (regardless of their pseudo-justifications) DOES NOT equal blind and stupid hatred of its people. Not to me at least.
I try not to make generalizations when talking. Others do.
A wrong cannot be set right by another wrong.
And this internet phenomenon is off...
Do some reading on history, learn a little, and maybe you will be able to retract some of the childish comments.
I never went to school, but I do know my history. I am up on the Palestinian issue from the perspective of Clergy in the Holy Land from the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopian, and Armenian jurisdictions.
The Palestinian Authority conducts itself in a mafia fashion, and it strong arms the hierarchs in the Holy City.
You don't seem to know beyond the CNN specials and clips. Learn a little and the "Real Truth will set you free".
Enjoy your day in the Grace of God.
Clearly some people are not fit for reasonable debate and conversation, I guess whatever fancy' school they apparently went to didn't teach them that...
May God have mercy.
Please don't feel disheartened, or offended.
You do not know the tone in which ILSM was speaking. Please re-READ his post without interpreting anything ulterior. Concentrate on the facts.
So, he's saying that the Egyptian schools teach a "flowered up" version of truth concerning the Israelis... its full of propaganda. That's it.
Don't read too much into it. He could have been talking to me, or anyone for that matter.
I was Pro-Palestinian until the realities of what was happening opened my eyes.
I don't care what you ARE, internet phenomenon or not, what matters to me is how you conduct yourself in this conversation, a way that I see as completely unfit. They were not kind words, nor hurtful one's, simply an observation.
I really think you misinterpreted the intonation of ILSM's message. Seriously.
If you re-read what he said AS IF he's addressing everyone, and not you, you'd see what he's trying to say.
Because he used the term "little grade school lessons", you think that he was being patronizing? Not at all. WHat he meant was that in Egypt, they do in fact teach kids at an early age such propaganda.
That's the point he was making. Its from an early age that anti-Israeli sentiments grow also.
Ultimately, you need to focus on the facts.. Please do not personlize whatever he said. I had the same opinion as u.
The endoctrination in Egypt is from day #1.
Thank you Sasi. That was my point.
The endoctrination in Egypt is from day #1.
I think TruthSetsFree thought you were talking about his level of education, where as what you meant was its AT THAT period of education, endoctrination starts, and Egyptians are cultured to hate Israel and see it according to the propaganda that was fed to them.
TruthSetsFree,
You come across as a very intelligent person. Look at our history in correspondance. I really think you should have given ILSM the benefit of the doubt before interpreting his message as a offence.
He is claiming the Palestinian authorities are thugs and concludes that my opinion is thus wrong.
I don't see a link, as I never defended the Palestinian authorities and have in fact condemned them.
It only happens that I don't defend the criminal Israeli government either.
a criminal is a criminal...
Maybe, ILSM, just maybe, you should consider learning the real truth yourself, may it set you free with the Grace of Our Lord.
and what is CNN?
I think this thread has become a waste of time, as some people as I said are not fit to have adult conversations by childlishly holding on to the same rhetoric even after being proven wrong.
this is my last post here, so feel free to ignore what I said AGAIN and reply to the imaginary internet phenomenon in your head..
Well, I have clearly not misinterpreted what ILSM said, since he seems so fond of bashing my opinions regardless of what those opinions are, I doubt he even reads my posts before he displays ignorance when 'answering' them and 'attacking' my opinions..
He is claiming the Palestinian authorities are thugs and concludes that my opinion is thus wrong.
I don't see a link, as I never defended the Palestinian authorities and have in fact condemned them.
It only happens that I don't defend the criminal Israeli government either.
a criminal is a criminal...
Maybe, ILSM, just maybe, you should consider learning the real truth yourself, may it set you free with the Grace of Our Lord.
and what is CNN?
I think this thread has become a waste of time, as some people as I said are not fit to have adult conversations by childlishly holding on to the same rhetoric even after being proven wrong.
this is my last post here, so feel free to ignore what I said AGAIN and reply to the imaginary internet phenomenon in your head..
I think its really a shame to mis-interpret someone's tone in their response. I admit, i do the same mistakes when I write, but if I took time to make sure every sentence could not be interpreted in a rude way, i would not bother writing anything.
Do not forget, that most of us have fast typing speeds and we want to participate in this forum whilst taking short breaks.
Again, you have said nothing wrong for anyone to criticise you, and I'm 110% sure that ILSM was not addressing his posts to you "personally".
He was stating facts actually.
I really liked this discussion and I learnt a lot of things, so its a shame that you are leaving.
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10456.msg128050#msg128050 date=1295967188]
If it sounds like I'm attacking your opinion-- I AM!
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10456.msg128050#msg128050 date=1295967188]
If it sounds like I'm attacking your opinion-- I AM!
Yes, but there's a difference between challenging an opinion (which is EXACTLY) what makes great debates and learning, and attacking the person.
Do you see the difference?
I read your replies, and that is what compels me to reply. The Israeli government is not a criminal system.
Your opinion and suppositions as to their conduct is not leveled in knowing the whole specter of the issue. That is what I replied to and added the rhetoric when your replies carry a certain tone of superiority.
You do not have a full foundation in the facts and I was clearing up your misinformation, and possibly completing a circle of understanding, thus at least presenting the opposing view.
Things started out general, and they turned personal.
I'm pretty sure he's doing both.
Do you think you could either add something useful TiTl or just not post ???
The following are the exact same questions that puzzle me all the time:
Why would a senior Bishop in Egypt’s Coptic church accuse Israel of spying on churches? Why does he suggest Copts are safe under Islam, when they are not?
http://voiceofthecopts.org/en/opinions/the_reason_behind_egyptian_christian_anti-semitism.html
By the way, is „Musa“ for „Moses“?
It is against Christianity to hate anybody. Christianity teaches love and peace toward those who hate us.
Let us not forget that the Jews are a blessing to all of the Gentiles and God still loves them and has a plan to save them.