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What is wrong with Egyptians?
I don't think Egypt is ready for a democracy. I think they have NO idea how to co-exist having difference of opinions, ideas, and religions.
They can't!
They cannot express themselves peacefully against those who are different to them. Can they?
Let's face it. Egypt is ruined.
What do you think?
They can't!
They cannot express themselves peacefully against those who are different to them. Can they?
Let's face it. Egypt is ruined.
What do you think?
Comments
It is not a democracy.
Nor will it ever be a democracy.
The current state of affairs, as wrapped in the aspect of Islam, is incapable of supporting a democracy or a secular
system.
Islam does not allow for democracy.
Egypt has never been a democracy.
It is not a democracy.
Nor will it ever be a democracy.
The current state of affairs, as wrapped in the aspect of Islam, is incapable of supporting a democracy or a secular
system.
Islam does not allow for democracy.
ILSM,
Hang on,
are you saying that Egypt is stuck this way? Those that started this campaign were secularists. They wanted a secular state. That was the attention. You are saying that you don't feel they'll get that?
Hi Ioannes,
Actually, you make a valid point as a lot of people feel that Democracy and Freedom of Speech is something new to the Egyptian people. It cannot be just given to them like that.. it needs to be administered in the right way. Their minds 1st need to accept democracy and freedom of speech before the government. As you can all see, they do not know how to live with difference of opinion peacefully.
I don't think that I trust anything that the BBC says about anything.
Father Peter
The violence that erupted today was due to the Mubarak regime and his supporters. Notice how there were no acts of violence by the protesters up until the Mubarak supporters came in to Tahrir Square today and began beating and assaulting the protesters. If I was a betting man, I would put good money on the idea that these "Mubarak supporters" were either paid thugs and/or Egyptian security personnel brought in to dissipate the protesters because they refuse to accept Mubarak's insulting compromise that he will not run for re-election in September.
I'm pro-mubarak , and I can literally confirm that these men were paid to go on and "pretend" they love Mubarak.
What the heck was a guy doing on a camel in Midan il Tahrir???
How did that happen?
How comes the main instigators were all on camels and horses? It seems like someone from the NDP went up to a few men in Giza who were giving horse rides to tourists and told them "Listen up, business is stagnant today, why not make a few extra dollars doing something useful for your country?"
its SOOO OBVIOUS they were paid. It was even slap-stick comedy. I just watched the BBC news with these protesters - it was nothing short of hilarious. In fact, I'm trying to find a tape recording of it to watch it again. It was very amusing indeed.
I just wanted to say quickly that I'm talking about the guys on the horses...
Whether all of them are acting.. i don't know.. but definately those on the BBC 6 O Clock news were clearly acting.
I am hearing that the vast majority of Egyptians would rather Mubarak stayed.
I don't think that I trust anything that the BBC says about anything.
Father Peter
Its hard to say Fr.
I know that the will of the original demonstrators/protesters WANT what they got.. i.e. a peaceful transition and time to choose a new leader.. yes. We all want that. However, there's no shame in admitting that the Coptic Christians, America, the West, literally everyone, wants ANYTHING/ANYONE EXCEPT the Muslim Brotherhood.
Mubarak deserved to be criticised, and I think that this was good. The People deserve to be respected. That's true. But he is a dignified man and he still deserves our respect.
[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10618.msg129423#msg129423 date=1296671119]
I am hearing that the vast majority of Egyptians would rather Mubarak stayed.
I don't think that I trust anything that the BBC says about anything.
Father Peter
Its hard to say Fr.
I know that the will of the original demonstrators/protesters WANT what they got.. i.e. a peaceful transition and time to choose a new leader.. yes. We all want that. However, there's no shame in admitting that the Coptic Christians, America, the West, literally everyone, wants ANYTHING/ANYONE EXCEPT the Muslim Brotherhood.
Mubarak deserved to be criticised, and I think that this was good. The People deserve to be respected. That's true. But he is a dignified man and he still deserves our respect.
And this is why I can understand that many Copts are pro-Mubarak as they fear what persecutions, inequalities, and injustices may follow if an Islamic based government is established. This I can completely understand as I too would be concerned for my own safety and the safety of my family and friends. Additionally, Pope Shenouda has some type of "relationship" with Mubarak that has developed over the years.
Have you noticed the increase in the number of beards in the demonstrators?
Have you noticed a decrease in the college age demonstrators?
Islam if it is present in a society as a majority situation can never embrace any democracy.
As long as Egypt is majority muslim, it can never be a democracy.
as coptic christian, i congratulate the coptic church for being so passive. People, try to understand. the people in the Tahrir square sitting there day and night have a goal for a better egypt. they are well educated men and women. the revolution is peaceful unlike what the egyptian media portrays them to be traitors causing riots. the great copts that we are, we only think that if mubarak leaves only the islamic radicals will take over. please remember our martyrs, remember that they were martyred under the ruling of mubarak. nothing worse can happen to the christians. i am sorry to say that i thought we were a courageous church. didnt we always want to remake the constitution?!those protesting are going to get this accomplished. now, i congratulate the coptic church for not going to be able to take part in the new government, since we'd rather remain second class citizens under mubarak now and his son in the future or another corrupted person from his party. WAKE UP. u will only blame urselves for not taking action. by the way, these people have a goal...what is our goal????!!!!please dont tell me the kingdom of heaven because this is the goal for everyone and quite frankly it's not given to the lazy and passive. salam
How do we even know you are Coptic...? you have 3 posts in here and you name your self Coptic Egyptian and in every post you say you are Coptic Egyptian... Ok we get that... why would anyone keep stressing that he is Coptic Egyptian unless he isn't?
And even if you are Coptic what makes you think things wont get worse!! Yes they can.
They can ban Christian worship - remember the Pact of Caliph Omar?
They can ban Crosses.
They can ban Bibles from the Country in Egypt.
They can ban Christian gathering.
They can execute Christians if they insult or even speak out against their prophet... etc.
I don't care if you go protest in the Streets thats your own right... but just don't forget that the Muslim brotherhood is trying to hijack the revolution and turn it Islamic. If not why are they praying in masses in the Streets and why are the Sheyoo5 (clerics) all in the streets protesting and why is CNN reporting that Ayman al Zawahari has agents from recent contects who are trying to turn the public cry into an Islamic one.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/02/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-urges-protesters-to-keep-up-pressure-to-oust-the-regime.html
Can we please put an end to this talk about islamic this and islamic that. do u think if an islamic government takes over things will be any worse than they r? please think about it. we've seen persecution and lack of rights throughout mubarak's regime which started in 1975 as a vice president under sadat who ordered pope Shenouda to go to the monastery. i believe that an islamic government is better than this tyrant. plus, the intelligent young people who started the revolution will not let that happen. even if it happens so what????egypt is already islamic....take a look at the constitutin of egypt. therefore the fear that you have is pointless and we should support the revolution because they will recreate a constitution that promises a better egypt.
I am for the revolution, yet I still care for the safety and freedom of my Coptic brothers and sisters living in Egypt. I believe that this is a secular movement. In fact it seems to be a partial fulfillment of the goals of Arabic intellectuals such as al-Afghani, 'Abduh, etc. because you have an a class of educated citizens (i.e. the growing youth population), rejection of unjust rulers, and a move towards personal freedom and justice (based upon Islamic principles of justice).
The Coptic Church's history is bathed in the blood of martyrs. I understand your point that Copts suffer persecution and inequalities under the Mubarak regime, but you cannot fault those who fear the worst and fear for their safety and that of their friends and family. As someone who has had interaction with Muslim men and women my age, I do believe there is hope for better Christian/Muslim relations in the future. Yet keep in mind two things: a) Not all the population has had the opportunity to be educated and "secularized" in their understanding of governance and b) while the youth may be changing, it is the old guard and older generation who still comprises the majority of the government and will continue to in the new government from. These are current realities.
If I was a suspicious person I would think that he was similar to another previous poster.
He changes is pronoun persona without realizing it.
Mubarak is the least of the evils.
I am hearing that the vast majority of Egyptians would rather Mubarak stayed.
I don't think that I trust anything that the BBC says about anything.
Father Peter
That is the truth!
It's Either Mubarak, or Omar Sulieman.
Anyone else would just be a radical Islamist, ready to go to another war with Israel and ruin the country once again.
I am hearing that the vast majority of Egyptians would rather Mubarak stayed.
I don't think that I trust anything that the BBC says about anything.
Father Peter
I dunno. I think a lot of people want him gone. the state of affairs in egypt is pretty bad. We're just more afraid of the MB. We know Mubarak's system. He doesn't have anyone that wants him, just people afraid of what comes after.
Have you all seen the Muslim protestors in the states who have been doing the "stupidest" protest chant:
He he...ho ho...Mubarak has to go.
It sounds like a child's chant. With their accents it sounds even "super stupidest".
I'm going to apologize, initially, before I interject a little humor in an otherwise serious situation.
Have you all seen the Muslim protestors in the states who have been doing the "stupidest" protest chant:
He he...ho ho...Mubarak has to go.
It sounds like a child's chant. With their accents it sounds even "super stupidest".
I just burst out laughing and Im at work!
Allah yeksafak ya ILSM!! Haram 3alak!!
That's hilarious
Man.. let's take this opportunity to distance ourselves from these losers and just divide Egypt peacefully into Christian and Muslim parts. Let's just have our own state - a bit like Sudan.
Im fed up. Im embarrased to say Im Egyptian with these people next to me.
That why I never say I am Egyptian. I always say I am Coptic.
lol
They are SO embarrassed to admit they are Egyptian also, even muslims are saying that they themselves are "Coptic".
They call themselves "Coptic Muslims"..
dumbasses!!!!
I think it was a mistake for the church to take any stance. If there is a transition to a new government this could perhaps linger in their mind and they may view us as pro-mubarak, and therefore an enemy. I think it would have been better to take a more political stance, not really choosing a side. Thats just my opinion based on my own knowledge of history.
It was the coptic christians who were the first to demonstrate against Mubarak. That was after the Alex attacks. Copts are also involved in the secular movement or the 25 Jan Protesters.
That why I never say I am Egyptian. I always say I am Coptic.
How do you respond after they ask what Coptic is? "Google it"? lol
It is a fool who says "Islam is the answer". Whenever a Muslim says that to me, I always say "to a stupid question!" ::)
I'm sorry, Egypt and Egyptians. I'm sorry you can't have the freedom and equality that you deserve as God's people because the majority of your country is brainwashed by Muhammad and his demonic religious-political system.
Everybody seems to ignore the fact that the Iranian revolution started as a secular movement, led by a coalition of nationalist, anti-monarchists, students and communists. Their grievances were centered around corruption of the government and the dictatorship of the monarch, the Shah.
Note that at the time, and under the Shah, Iran was the powerful military country, allies of the US and Israel, very liberal and progressive, and the economy was seeing a continuous growth for a decade. Moreover, the Shah suppressed the Islamists and had Khomeini banished.
The revolution succeeded in ousting the Shah who found no support by the States. It was a scene very similar to Egypt 2011. The media in the States focused on people's rights and freedom and they were extremely supportive of the revolution, displaying their complete and repetitive ignorance.
The revolution was later sabotaged by the Khomeini and islamists, for the same reasons mentioned in the post I quoted from.
Democracy is not for all people. It has to be home grown and based on certain values. In Egypt, anybody who expressed support for Mubarak was taken down by the demonstrators and labeled "traitor", although one of the major grievances of those demonstrators is lack of democracy.
Egypt was once a democracy, before 1952 revolution, when it was a liberal country with liberal values and when the loyality was not for religion but for the country.
The people revolution succeeded in ousting the Shah
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10618.msg129529#msg129529 date=1296740859]
That why I never say I am Egyptian. I always say I am Coptic.
lol
They are SO embarrassed to admit they are Egyptian also, even muslims are saying that they themselves are "Coptic".
They call themselves "Coptic Muslims"..
dumbasses!!!!
The Copts always will have one faith, Orthodox Christian. We are the true Egyptians, those Muslims are invaders, let them take their arses back to Mecca.
August Queen of Heaven, sovereign Mistress of the Angels, who didst receive from the beginning the mission and the power to crush the serpent’s head, we beseech thee to send thy holy angels, that under thy command and by thy power, they may pursue the evil spirits, encounter them on every side, resist their bold attacks, and drive them hence into the abyss of woe.
Most holy Mother, send thy angels to defend us and to drive the cruel enemy from us.
All ye holy angels and archangel, help and defend us. Amen.
The evil is in full force and we need to pray and fast.
Came across a nice prayer requesting St. Mary to intervene to protect Egypt, the Coptic Church and the Christian.
August Queen of Heaven, sovereign Mistress of the Angels, who didst receive from the beginning the mission and the power to crush the serpent’s head, we beseech thee to send thy holy angels, that under thy command and by thy power, they may pursue the evil spirits, encounter them on every side, resist their bold attacks, and drive them hence into the abyss of woe.
Most holy Mother, send thy angels to defend us and to drive the cruel enemy from us.
All ye holy angels and archangel, help and defend us. Amen.
The evil is in full force and we need to pray and fast.
Thank you my sister, I will pray this prayer until the protests are over.