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Why 55 days?

andrew8345andrew8345
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
I have heard of several reasons for the length of the Great Lent fast. What is the reason and what is the history behind it?

I heard that originally we used to fast only 3 days. At another point 40. What is the reason for 55 days? Is it preparation week, 40 days, passion week, as many say?

Thank you.
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Comments

  • servant33servant33
    Yep, what I've been taught is
    Preparation week - 7 days
    Jesus fasting - 40 days
    Passion week - 7 days
    That adds to 54 days, the last day is from Lazarus Saturday (the Saturday before Palm Sunday)
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    I heard another reason is that we fast 8 weeks in total. Of those 8 weeks only the weekdays are calculated as part of the fast, since they are mournful fasting days. The weekends are not technically included since we do not abstain on weekends since they are joyful days, as evident by the distinct tune of hymns on weekends compared to weekdays. Anyhow, those 8 weeks X the 5 weekdays = 40 days of fasting which we emulate after the Lord Christ.

    I am not sure how accurate this is. I just never understood the concept of preparation week. Many people take it is an optional week of fasting.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    there are 3 ways of calculating it; either as a preparation week and passion (holy) week, or as holy week plus 40 days (sundays not being counted in this), or as 40 days with saturdays and sundays not counted, so holy week comes within the 40 days. when i say the weekends are not counted, this means they are still vegan, but people can eat breakfast as soon as they wake up (unless they are attending liturgy, which of course they should at least on one of those days!).
    of course, there are many traditions in many communities over time. but basically they all add up to a 55 day fast.

    in the eastern orthodox church, the first week is really like a preparation week, as they just give up meat and fish; they can still eat dairy products. but in some eastern orthodox churches, they don't use any oil on most days, so it doesn't work out easier! (if i didn't use oil, i estimate i would loose about 10kg each fast!) so the eastern orthodox lent starts this monday.

    may God give us all a blessed fast  :)
  • aidanaidan
    Do the Coptic fasters have any respite on Saturdays and Sundays. The Eastern Orthodox are permitted oil and wine and fish on the Annunciation but otherwise its straight oil less veganism
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    No, we don't break the fast for any of the occasions that fall during Lent, even the feast of the Cross.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Aidan, I always thought that the EO only fasted from olive oil? That is what HE Met Kallistos Ware says.
  • aidanaidan
    That wasn't very clear of me! Oil and wine permitted Saturday and Sunday and fish at the Annunciation.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10887.msg131998#msg131998 date=1299262023]
    No, we don't break the fast for any of the occasions that fall during Lent, even the feast of the Cross.

    we break abstaining from food but not the fast in general. that is also so with the feast of Annunciation.
  • the_leastthe_least
    I know for sure that there is such a thing as preparation week because even the readings of the day reflect this. Check this out: http://www.suscopts.org/pdf/journeythroughtheholyfast.pdf
  • petertawfikpetertawfik
    the 7 weeks has one saturday each and we r not allowed to abstain from fasting in those saturdays so our church since she loves the forty days to be full 40 days she added the 1 st week as a preparation/to also compensate the losses from the 7 saturdays
    7 weeks of 7 days =49 days then monday to saturday in passikn week is 6 days
    49+6=55 days
    QED
    :D
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=petertawfik link=topic=10887.msg132044#msg132044 date=1299275876]
    the 7 weeks has one saturday each and we r not allowed to abstain from fasting in those saturdays so our church since she loves the forty days to be full 40 days she added the 1 st week as a preparation/to also compensate the losses from the 7 saturdays
    7 weeks of 7 days =49 days then monday to saturday in passikn week is 6 days
    49+6=55 days
    QED
    :D

    but we ALSO do not abstain from food on the sundays.
    The calculation of all weekdays f the 8 weeks to be 40 days is supported but not as much. this calculations allows us to call the fast, Great Lent. the word "Lent", which many people do not like to use referring to this fast, comes from the Catholic Church. The Lent refers to the 40 day fast from Ash Wednesday to Easter. So by this calculation we can call the fast, the Great Lent. In arabic, older priests say "Al-arba'een Al-moqadassa" = "the holy forties" meaning to say "the holy forty days."

    [quote author=the_least link=topic=10887.msg132043#msg132043 date=1299275662]
    I know for sure that there is such a thing as preparation week because even the readings of the day reflect this. Check this out: http://www.suscopts.org/pdf/journeythroughtheholyfast.pdf

    there is....i don't think anyone spoke against this. in fact, this is what is mostly accepted by people to not create any confusion. you have preparation week, the full 40 days of the fast, lazarus saturday and holy week.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    But is it true that at other points in the church's history the fast did not add up to 55 days, but was only 40 in total?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=10887.msg132061#msg132061 date=1299283898]
    But is it true that at other points in the church's history the fast did not add up to 55 days, but was only 40 in total?

    i don't really know. but just keep in mind that the main fast period is 40 days. we say "Jesus Christ Fasted for us forty days and forty nights" as it says in the Bible.
  • copticuser20copticuser20
    Wasn't the fast originally split up into 2 fasts? 47 days (40 for Christ fasting for us and  one week prep) and then they would fast again for 8 days starting Lazarus saturday. But i think this was in the really early church.
  • copticuser20copticuser20
    [quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10887.msg131999#msg131999 date=1299262545]
    Aidan, I always thought that the EO only fasted from olive oil? That is what HE Met Kallistos Ware says.

    Wait what's wrong with olive oil?
  • gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
    I've also heard of people fasting without oil here in the COC.  I know for fact my grandmother and her older generation of friends, fast the "oil and salt fast" - where they don't use oil and don't spirnkle salt on their food.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Olive oil is considered to have the same properties as animal products. We should always follow the instructions of our foc but there is value in abstaining from olive oil while using other oils. I think HH speaks about abstaining from olive oil.
  • TITLTITL

    I think HH speaks about abstaining from olive oil.

    What does he say?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Off the top of my head I think he says that we should abstain from olive oil and be sparing in using substitutes.
  • TITLTITL
    Is olive oil the same as canola or corn oil? I thought oil, like salt, was essential in cooking?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Olive oil is oil made from olives. Corn or palm or rapeseed or vegetable oils are made from other sources.
  • TITLTITL
    Lol sorry that's not what I meant to ask. Is olive oil used the same in cooking as other oils? I know it gives a different, stronger, taste in foods, but that's not the reason we should abstain from it? Was HH speaking specifically about olive oil or all oils?

    I guess I just want to know why the strictness with olive oil specifically. You said it has the same properties as animal products, so the other oils do not?

    I can't seem to get my question out right without it being misunderstood. Ok, let me try one last time: can one use corn/canola oil during the fasts?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    It all depends on the instructions that your FOC gives you to help you make the most of the Fast.

    Just as we are instructed to end our fast at different times of the day, and just as our health circumstances are taken into account - all of this is as His Holiness teaches.

    But there is also a clear tradition to abstain from olive oil and to use vegetable substitutes without excess for those whom the FOC advises. Just as the use of a dairy and olive oil free margarine thinly spread on bread so that it becomes edible is not the same as seeking out a substitute for butter and eating lots of it.

    God bless your fast

    Father Peter
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Here is my interpretation:

    The 7 additional days relate to those days that people break their fast for those "one ingredient" issues.  God is Merciful so He allows us extra days to make up for our stupidity.
  • TITLTITL
    haha! iloveilovesaintmark 
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    One ingedient rule:  "ok to eat steak?"  It only has one invalid ingredient?  The meat in the steak is unnatural because it is developed artificially by all of the cattle herders?  Hence it should be okay for consumption in Lent?!


    NOT.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    I just had a disgusting veggie burger (minus the egg whites; in other words a real bona fide vegan burger).  I felt so Orthodox as I looked at my friends eating their real fake Angus beef burgers.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I am waiting to make a mess of Lent, but as far as the practicalities go I have discovered that the allergy labelling rules now in force in the UK make choosing food very easy. All the food in the supermarket now says..

    Contains: Milk, Eggs etc etc

    in the Allergy section and so it is straightforward to pick up a packet and put it straight down if it says that it contains such products even if they are the 19th ingredient. I have in the past myself used the argument that it is not necessary to delve into all the ingredients, and this is still the case if it is a matter of nowing whether or not phenyll-anti-compositional agents are fasting or not. But if the label says CONTAINS DAIRY then the choice becomes more straightfowardly one of obedience or not. Of course the food we abstain from and the food we eat and when is only one aspect of the fast, but undoubtedly a significant aspect.

    Having found, in the UK at least, that the issue of trying to work out if food is vegan or not has been taken care of, I am now left with the personal struggle which we all face of actually fasting and actually getting the spiritual benefit. Through your prayers for me I am learning many lessons this season, and I hope that my prayers for you all might also be heard and bring the great blessing of fasting to each of you.

    Father Peter
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=10887.msg132282#msg132282 date=1299530456]
    I just had a disgusting veggie burger (minus the egg whites; in other words a real bona fide vegan burger).  I felt so Orthodox as I looked at my friends eating their real fake Angus beef burgers.

    actually.....in fasts, i began only to east home or like chinese food. simply because i don't feel like eating anything with bread anymore. like it doesn't feel like real food (in fasting or other times). i guess i am just getting old for liking full meals.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    the really hard thing is being vegan AND fasting from pride!

    and could we please stop discussing fitari food? it stops me pretending such food no longer exists!
    ;)
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