[quote author=lightening link=topic=10973.msg133006#msg133006 date=1300147364] zox, did you know that the priest is allowed to marry more than once?... :o
i am sure you know that. ...coz he marries every bride and groom on their wedding day!! :D
Zoxsasi and lightening, I hope this message meets you well in Christ,
We need to calm down, and there is no reason to make infuriating comments. If we sit down and are "So swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath", we would have few problems in our church. Zoxsasi, please do not skim over this message. The situation is like so:
Step 1) Two people marry, both are non-Orthodox Step 2) One begins to seek after Orthodoxy and eventually converts
Now obviously there can be no reprecussions here.
What you are thinking of is this: Step 1) Two people marry, one is Orthodox and one is non-Orthodox Step 2) The Orthodox person can no longer take communion in the Orthodox Church
[hr] Lightening,
there is no need to make comments that will add fuel to the fire. It is enough to follow the commandment of Christ: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."
If you respond it is not hard to respond in a calm and loving manner and lead by example.
yes, it was supposed to be funny, witty, just like we expect english humour to be. of corse it's not so funny/witty for those who still use an english dictionary to understand a joke. sorry
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10973.msg133012#msg133012 date=1300148798] yes, it was supposed to be funny, witty, just like we expect english humour to be. of corse it's not so funny/witty for those who still use an english dictionary to understand a joke. sorry
Yeah, it was pretty sorry. Don't quit your day job. Have a good day.
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10973.msg133018#msg133018 date=1300149802] Minatasgeel clearly is unaware then that if an orthodox Christian marries outside the orthodox faith, there are repercussions.
well i haven't been reading much about what you said because there are just a lot of things that are being discussed.
About what you are saying, what i think is that: If an orthodox leaves and marries outside the Church, he is considered a sinner and temporary cut from the Church (or atleast whatever judgement the clergy men have upon him). Now he can come back and repent and try to fix his mistake by bringing his spouse into the Church. That being said, i believe he doesn't have to be "remarried." That doesn't make sense. if you think that way, we than have to say that he must get baptized again, which is for sure not right.
These things though happen very rarely. From my experience (knowing people ya3ny) whoever leaves the Church to get married does NOT come back to the Church....not that i am happy about it but that's what happens.
It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
[quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=10973.msg133023#msg133023 date=1300151095] It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
so, does that mean that i am not 'truly married' to my wife?..
[quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=10973.msg133023#msg133023 date=1300151095] It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
ehhhhh...it's a very thin line. like i said, not much people get to that point.
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10973.msg133024#msg133024 date=1300151507] [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=10973.msg133023#msg133023 date=1300151095] It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
so, does that mean that i am not 'truly married' to my wife?..
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=10973.msg133028#msg133028 date=1300152173] + Irini nem ehmot,
My we have certainly wandered off from the OP.
Yes.
Lightening, you are in an interesting situation. Orthodoxy is open to you, but I recommend you do not take this path if it's just to appease your wife.
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10973.msg132853#msg132853 date=1300060803] wow! these questions make me wonder if i should ever get near an orthodox church... i am really pleased that you guys are bringing to light what it really means to be orthodox. thank you.
Hi Lightning,
How are you?
May the Lord grant that things I say are acceptable in His sight.
I believe we must consider how we enter into discussions with other people, there are people here of differing levels of spirituality and temperament and if we want to it is very easy to provoke others and start arguments.
I feel like you're seeking to affirm preconceived notions of Orthodoxy by coming here and agitating people to giggle at them when they have their fuses lit; please consider what the outcome of this behaviour is.
If this is the place where true knowledge of God can be found then we would want to approach it in a worthy way. Christ gave commandments that we ought not cast pearls before swine because they don't realise the value of the thing being given to them and in addition to trampling these pearls as if they were nothing the pigs will then turn on the people delivering them and attack them.
As I have said before, this is a web forum and there are people here of differing degrees of spirituality from the strong to the weak and if we wish to take advantage of the weakness of others we will achieve our aim but is this really the way to enter into religious discussions? Is this really the way to approach the mysteries of the Spirit? I can't imagine how it could be.
Many of us fall short in our conduct but this says nothing about the truth of Orthodoxy - Christ came to heal the sick not the healthy. St Paul wrote to the Church of Corinth because they committed many sins including one of the parishioners sleeping with his fathers wife - a sin that St Paul remarked even the gentiles wouldn't think to commit. Had the Jews of that time taken the conduct of the Church of Corinth as an indication of the truth of God they would have placed themselves in jeopardy and that can be said of all the Church which Christ pronounced judgement of in the revelations and the sins he found in each one of them. In each of these cases Christ and St Paul prescribed instructions about how to exhort and correct the people who had gone astray - St Paul says that we ought to judge no one before the time.
Please forgive me if I have misread your intentions; only the Lord alone knows and weighs the hearts of men and please pray for my weak self,
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10973.msg132853#msg132853 date=1300060803] wow! these questions make me wonder if i should ever get near an orthodox church... i am really pleased that you guys are bringing to light what it really means to be orthodox. thank you.
Someone could have easily said to you, lightening:
"Wow! with all these comments by lightening and their arrogant way of talking coupled with their self-righteous view that they have the ultimate truth and condescending approach to apostolic churches and congregations, makes me wonder if I too should ever get near a protestant church, or protestant people. I'm pleased you are bringing this to light what it means to be protestant"
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
I was for a very long time and still fascinated by these verses. St Paul met disciples of St John the Baptist who believe in Jesus Christ, but as these verses clearly tell us they were not really fully Christians yet. They were obviously starters, on the right track as they had already found faith and believed in Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior, but still being just in their first step, the step of repentance and faith, i.e. we cannot say absolutely for sure they were yet saved can we? - I think that's why God's grace helped them meet with St Paul.
After these men believed further steps were still necessary and were thus made by St Paul to them in order to surely save them: they were baptized by him in the name of Jesus Christ (the Sacrament of Baptism), then and only after that they were eligible and ready for the Holy Spirit, so he finally laid hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit (the Sacrament of Chrismation, also called Anointing or Confirmation). What a fascinating and inspiring eye opener we find in this described sequence! These verses deserve serious and deep meditation from everybody, what do you all think?
Please note also that these men were about twelve in number. Another important thing: these men did not question the teaching of St Paul or mentioned to have argued with him at all.
[quote author=John_S2000 link=topic=10973.msg133048#msg133048 date=1300189697] Acts 19, Paul at Ephesus
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
I was for a very long time and still fascinated by these verses. St Paul met disciples of St John the Baptist who believe in Jesus Christ, but as these verses clearly tell us they were not really fully Christians yet. They were obviously starters, on the right track as they had already found faith and believed in Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior, but still being just in their first step, the step of repentance and faith, i.e. we cannot say absolutely for sure they were yet saved can we? - I think that's why God's grace helped them meet with St Paul.
After these men believed further steps were still necessary and were thus made by St Paul to them in order to surely save them: they were baptized by him in the name of Jesus Christ (the Sacrament of Baptism), then and only after that they were eligible and ready for the Holy Spirit, so he finally laid hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit (the Sacrament of Chrismation, also called Anointing or Confirmation). What a fascinating and inspiring eye opener we find in this described sequence! These verses deserve serious and deep meditation from everybody, what do you all think?
Please note also that these men were about twelve in number.
GBU
You know what I think? I think it is brilliant how, after Our Lord appeared to Saint Paul, saint Paul didn't go off and create his own Church. Not at all. He had the humility and decency to go to the rest of the disciples and tell them of his revelation and to double check with them everything that he had received or learnt.
Its a shame people don't do this anymore... they seem to get a revelation, run with it, and start their own churches, unwittingly trampling over all the rest of the apostolic teachings that were revealed to those who ACTUALLY KNEW and SPENT TIME with Jesus Christ.
An Apostolic Church should thus be expected to follow the same correct teaching as given to us in the Bible for it to be considered Orthodox, a wisdom word meaning much in terms of truly following the Early Church legacy of the Apostles, and then their disciples and so on for each next generation, this must obviously include the Fathers with their sayings and their deeds.
The Apostles were personally chosen by Jesus Christ for so many good reasons, weren't they.
Someone could have easily said to you, lightening:
"Wow! with all these comments by lightening and their arrogant way of talking coupled with their self-righteous view that they have the ultimate truth and condescending approach to apostolic churches and congregations, makes me wonder if I too should ever get near a protestant church, or protestant people. I'm pleased you are bringing this to light what it means to be protestant"
But no one has said that to you, have they?
well, if someone told me that, (You have just done it!!) i would have said: i am sorry i come across like this, it sounds horrible. but i am not the epitome of protestantism, if you want to find out about it please don't look at my own shortcomings. i would certainly not forbid anyone to visit one of their churches, on the basis of my unsocial behaviour on tasbeha. i am not protestantism, i am a sinner who needs to repent. and i do it now!..
Don't worry lightening, we know plenty about protestantism most of us have actually been protestants. We have seen the organization and wisdom of the Coptic Orthodox church in its liturgical worship, iconography, hymnology, writings of the church fathers, etc... On the other hand we have also seen the unorganization of the protestant church, the removal of clergy, the removal of the apocrypha, almost the removal of Hebrews, and the denial that communion is the Real Body AND Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. So in short, don't worry about us getting a bad image of protestantism from you, i personally don't know you so i can't say if you are a bad person or not. I just don't like how you reply with "smart-alic" replies when someone tells you something. Trust me, there is much to be said about protestants, but us as Coptic Orthodox Christians must love one another so we are not really debating you we are just telling you our views on the topics you bring up.
I was never protestant before, but I really believe coming into the Coptic Orthodox Church isn't a small step. You are changing your religion (literally) because our view of salvation is totally different from Protestants.
The sacrament of Holy Communion, which this topic is about, is paramount in the life of anyone Orthodox. To be prohibited from taking it is in fact a very very grave matter.
Comments
zox, did you know that the priest is allowed to marry more than once?... :o
i am sure you know that.
...coz he marries every bride and groom on their wedding day!!
:D
Was that supposed to be witty?
We need to calm down, and there is no reason to make infuriating comments. If we sit down and are "So swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath", we would have few problems in our church. Zoxsasi, please do not skim over this message. The situation is like so:
Step 1) Two people marry, both are non-Orthodox
Step 2) One begins to seek after Orthodoxy and eventually converts
Now obviously there can be no reprecussions here.
What you are thinking of is this:
Step 1) Two people marry, one is Orthodox and one is non-Orthodox
Step 2) The Orthodox person can no longer take communion in the Orthodox Church
[hr]
Lightening,
there is no need to make comments that will add fuel to the fire. It is enough to follow the commandment of Christ: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."
If you respond it is not hard to respond in a calm and loving manner and lead by example.
Please pray for me
of corse it's not so funny/witty for those who still use an english dictionary to understand a joke.
sorry
yes, it was supposed to be funny, witty, just like we expect english humour to be.
of corse it's not so funny/witty for those who still use an english dictionary to understand a joke.
sorry
Yeah, it was pretty sorry. Don't quit your day job. Have a good day.
I was speaking of the condition where an orthodox chrisitian married a non orthodox chrisitian.
As far as I am and have been aware, this will result in that person being refused Holy communion.
I cannot believe that no one here has come across this regulation ?!
It was so defening and made clear to us by our priests.
Regardless, this is off topic, but what is your point??
will try to make the most of it.
No one disagrees with you about what you just wrote. The thing is, that wasn't thes situation with Fr. Peter or with lightening.
Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding this whole thing?
No, you are not misunderstanding the situation.
Zoxsasi,
No one disagrees with you about what you just wrote. The thing is, that wasn't thes situation with Fr. Peter or with lightening.
Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding this whole thing?
Minatasgeel clearly is unaware then that if an orthodox Christian marries outside the orthodox faith, there are repercussions.
Father peter's case is different. Whether lightening's case is the same as fr peter's I don't know.
Did your wife marry you and then become orthodox, or did she become orthodox before her marriage to you?
If your wife was already orthodox and has married you outside the church, she is considered ex communicated from the orthodox church.
However, if she became orthodox during your marriage , I'm not sure where that puts you.
Minatasgeel clearly is unaware then that if an orthodox Christian marries outside the orthodox faith, there are repercussions.
well i haven't been reading much about what you said because there are just a lot of things that are being discussed.
About what you are saying, what i think is that:
If an orthodox leaves and marries outside the Church, he is considered a sinner and temporary cut from the Church (or atleast whatever judgement the clergy men have upon him). Now he can come back and repent and try to fix his mistake by bringing his spouse into the Church. That being said, i believe he doesn't have to be "remarried." That doesn't make sense. if you think that way, we than have to say that he must get baptized again, which is for sure not right.
These things though happen very rarely. From my experience (knowing people ya3ny) whoever leaves the Church to get married does NOT come back to the Church....not that i am happy about it but that's what happens.
Lightning,
Did your wife marry you and then become orthodox, or did she become orthodox before her marriage to you?
If your wife was already orthodox and has married you outside the church, she is considered ex communicated from the orthodox church.
However, if she became orthodox during your marriage , I'm not sure where that puts you.
i married my darling before she became orthodox.
as for ..where to put me.. you already pronounced me hell-bent.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
so, does that mean that i am not 'truly married' to my wife?..
It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
ehhhhh...it's a very thin line. like i said, not much people get to that point.
My we have certainly wandered off from the OP.
[quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=10973.msg133023#msg133023 date=1300151095]
It would only make sense that if an Orthodox person were to marry a non-Orthodox person outside of the church in a secular ceremony, or even a non-secular ceremony they should get married in the Orthodox church if they decide to come back. If they didn't that would mean that the sacrament of marriage in the Orthodox church is equivalent to that of another church or that a secular marriage can suffice. But since a marriage ceremony is the bringing together of man and woman to become one, it must be performed by the priest in the church.
This is not necessarily being "re-married" but getting truly married.
Correct me if I am mistaken.
so, does that mean that i am not 'truly married' to my wife?..
+ Irini nem ehmot,
Are you legally married? Yes.
Are you sacramentally married? God only knows.
+ Irini nem ehmot,
My we have certainly wandered off from the OP.
Yes.
Lightening, you are in an interesting situation. Orthodoxy is open to you, but I recommend you do not take this path if it's just to appease your wife.
As for the op:
I know exactly how you feel.
wow! these questions make me wonder if i should ever get near an orthodox church...
i am really pleased that you guys are bringing to light what it really means to be orthodox.
thank you.
Hi Lightning,
How are you?
May the Lord grant that things I say are acceptable in His sight.
I believe we must consider how we enter into discussions with other people, there are people here of differing levels of spirituality and temperament and if we want to it is very easy to provoke others and start arguments.
I feel like you're seeking to affirm preconceived notions of Orthodoxy by coming here and agitating people to giggle at them when they have their fuses lit; please consider what the outcome of this behaviour is.
If this is the place where true knowledge of God can be found then we would want to approach it in a worthy way. Christ gave commandments that we ought not cast pearls before swine because they don't realise the value of the thing being given to them and in addition to trampling these pearls as if they were nothing the pigs will then turn on the people delivering them and attack them.
As I have said before, this is a web forum and there are people here of differing degrees of spirituality from the strong to the weak and if we wish to take advantage of the weakness of others we will achieve our aim but is this really the way to enter into religious discussions? Is this really the way to approach the mysteries of the Spirit? I can't imagine how it could be.
Many of us fall short in our conduct but this says nothing about the truth of Orthodoxy - Christ came to heal the sick not the healthy. St Paul wrote to the Church of Corinth because they committed many sins including one of the parishioners sleeping with his fathers wife - a sin that St Paul remarked even the gentiles wouldn't think to commit. Had the Jews of that time taken the conduct of the Church of Corinth as an indication of the truth of God they would have placed themselves in jeopardy and that can be said of all the Church which Christ pronounced judgement of in the revelations and the sins he found in each one of them. In each of these cases Christ and St Paul prescribed instructions about how to exhort and correct the people who had gone astray - St Paul says that we ought to judge no one before the time.
Please forgive me if I have misread your intentions; only the Lord alone knows and weighs the hearts of men and please pray for my weak self,
God bless you,
LiD
wow! these questions make me wonder if i should ever get near an orthodox church...
i am really pleased that you guys are bringing to light what it really means to be orthodox.
thank you.
Someone could have easily said to you, lightening:
"Wow! with all these comments by lightening and their arrogant way of talking coupled with their self-righteous view that they have the ultimate truth and condescending approach to apostolic churches and congregations, makes me wonder if I too should ever get near a protestant church, or protestant people. I'm pleased you are bringing this to light what it means to be protestant"
But no one has said that to you, have they?
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
I was for a very long time and still fascinated by these verses. St Paul met disciples of St John the Baptist who believe in Jesus Christ, but as these verses clearly tell us they were not really fully Christians yet. They were obviously starters, on the right track as they had already found faith and believed in Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior, but still being just in their first step, the step of repentance and faith, i.e. we cannot say absolutely for sure they were yet saved can we? - I think that's why God's grace helped them meet with St Paul.
After these men believed further steps were still necessary and were thus made by St Paul to them in order to surely save them: they were baptized by him in the name of Jesus Christ (the Sacrament of Baptism), then and only after that they were eligible and ready for the Holy Spirit, so he finally laid hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit (the Sacrament of Chrismation, also called Anointing or Confirmation). What a fascinating and inspiring eye opener we find in this described sequence! These verses deserve serious and deep meditation from everybody, what do you all think?
Please note also that these men were about twelve in number. Another important thing: these men did not question the teaching of St Paul or mentioned to have argued with him at all.
GBU
Acts 19, Paul at Ephesus
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
I was for a very long time and still fascinated by these verses. St Paul met disciples of St John the Baptist who believe in Jesus Christ, but as these verses clearly tell us they were not really fully Christians yet. They were obviously starters, on the right track as they had already found faith and believed in Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior, but still being just in their first step, the step of repentance and faith, i.e. we cannot say absolutely for sure they were yet saved can we? - I think that's why God's grace helped them meet with St Paul.
After these men believed further steps were still necessary and were thus made by St Paul to them in order to surely save them: they were baptized by him in the name of Jesus Christ (the Sacrament of Baptism), then and only after that they were eligible and ready for the Holy Spirit, so he finally laid hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit (the Sacrament of Chrismation, also called Anointing or Confirmation). What a fascinating and inspiring eye opener we find in this described sequence! These verses deserve serious and deep meditation from everybody, what do you all think?
Please note also that these men were about twelve in number.
GBU
You know what I think? I think it is brilliant how, after Our Lord appeared to Saint Paul, saint Paul didn't go off and create his own Church. Not at all. He had the humility and decency to go to the rest of the disciples and tell them of his revelation and to double check with them everything that he had received or learnt.
Its a shame people don't do this anymore... they seem to get a revelation, run with it, and start their own churches, unwittingly trampling over all the rest of the apostolic teachings that were revealed to those who ACTUALLY KNEW and SPENT TIME with Jesus Christ.
The Apostles were personally chosen by Jesus Christ for so many good reasons, weren't they.
GBU
Someone could have easily said to you, lightening:
"Wow! with all these comments by lightening and their arrogant way of talking coupled with their self-righteous view that they have the ultimate truth and condescending approach to apostolic churches and congregations, makes me wonder if I too should ever get near a protestant church, or protestant people. I'm pleased you are bringing this to light what it means to be protestant"
But no one has said that to you, have they?
well, if someone told me that, (You have just done it!!) i would have said: i am sorry i come across like this, it sounds horrible. but i am not the epitome of protestantism, if you want to find out about it please don't look at my own shortcomings. i would certainly not forbid anyone to visit one of their churches, on the basis of my unsocial behaviour on tasbeha. i am not protestantism, i am a sinner who needs to repent. and i do it now!..
I was never protestant before, but I really believe coming into the Coptic Orthodox Church isn't a small step. You are changing your religion (literally) because our view of salvation is totally different from Protestants.
The sacrament of Holy Communion, which this topic is about, is paramount in the life of anyone Orthodox. To be prohibited from taking it is in fact a very very grave matter.