[quote author=+Marmar+ link=topic=10738.msg131400#msg131400 date=1298406244] [quote author=AikotiEnsok link=topic=10738.msg131380#msg131380 date=1298391029] I hope that doesn't happen!! My birthday is May 22nd!!
hahaha, don't worry,it wont happen, u can joyfully celebrate ur b-day 22 may ;)
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE KNOWS WHEN JUDGEMENT DAY IS, ONLY GOD IS TO SAY WHEN THE END OF THE WORLD IS-OR JUDGEMENT, U CANNOT MAKE A DATE FOR JUDGEMENT DAY >:(
[quote author=Khas. link=topic=10738.msg131427#msg131427 date=1298416218] [quote author=+Marmar+ link=topic=10738.msg131400#msg131400 date=1298406244] [quote author=AikotiEnsok link=topic=10738.msg131380#msg131380 date=1298391029] I hope that doesn't happen!! My birthday is May 22nd!!
hahaha, don't worry,it wont happen, u can joyfully celebrate ur b-day 22 may ;)
.عيد ميلادي 10 يونيو
ah, 10 juni, lisa badry bas bardo ha2olik happy birthday! :)
[quote author=Mary E link=topic=10738.msg131438#msg131438 date=1298442961] ABSOLUTELY NO ONE KNOWS WHEN JUDGEMENT DAY IS, ONLY GOD IS TO SAY WHEN THE END OF THE WORLD IS-OR JUDGEMENT, U CANNOT MAKE A DATE FOR JUDGEMENT DAY >:(
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10738.msg130830#msg130830 date=1297894967] [quote author=jenny link=topic=10738.msg130783#msg130783 date=1297873713] What is our church's view regarding the protestant belief that judgement day will come on this date, may 21, 2011? ..)
i think your question reveals terrifying levels of ignorance! (sorry for putting it so bluntly but this is quite an understatement!!!!!) may21,2011 is NOT a PROTESTANT belief!!! it is a YOUTUBE belief!!! please do not mix them up, if you want to respect yourself...
Lightening: You don't need to be so harsh, this was an innocent question. I'm not saying all protestants believe this. This came from a christian tv program and christian radio program. The guy's name is Harold Camping and he's got a lot of people worried. Maybe they are weak minded, but it was just a question. Calm down.
i am afraid your sight is badly impaired!! there is no reference on this link to any protestant church which supports the 21may 2011 event. i wonder if you actually read the article..
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10738.msg132690#msg132690 date=1299796284] i am afraid your sight is badly impaired!! there is no reference on this link to any protestant church which supports the 21may 2011 event. i wonder if you actually read the article..
that is correct. the whole movement is independent of any specific denomination. BUT, Protestantism is not a denomination...it's a "division"...google it and you'll see. 3 divisions of Christianity: Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism. whoever is not in the first 2 is part of the third. NOW, i would never go as far as saying "Protestantism beliefs this" but we can say that "This is a protestant belief" simply by understating Protestantism: a protest movement against the original Church (if it was Orthodoxy or Catholicism).
without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011. on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions. it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma. i think it is totally acceptable and honest to say 'i utterly reject protestantism' but it is not so if instead we start blaming protestantism for every heresy that crops up on the religious platform. this is not helpful in any way.
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10738.msg132749#msg132749 date=1299872531] without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011. on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions. it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma. i think it is totally acceptable and honest to say 'i utterly reject protestantism' but it is not so if instead we start blaming protestantism for every heresy that crops up on the religious platform. this is not helpful in any way.
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10738.msg132749#msg132749 date=1299872531] without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011. on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions. it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma. i think it is totally acceptable and honest to say 'i utterly reject protestantism' but it is not so if instead we start blaming protestantism for every heresy that crops up on the religious platform. this is not helpful in any way.
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10738.msg132749#msg132749 date=1299872531] without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011. i didn't say it is defined by this view. read what i said again. carefully please.
on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions.
i also didn't speak about this. but now that you said it, i can't judge the "victims" (more like follower) of this view but the VIEW ITSELF. come on....i thought by know you know that we always judge the view, the faith rather than the person who practices it simply because he or she might not do so perfectly.
it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma.
i really doubt you understood anything of what i said.
well... we need not get carried away, minatasgeel. there was nothing in what i said to suggest that i was looking for an 'argument'. and i am not going to accept you invitation, either. be good to yourself :)
[quote author=lightening link=topic=10738.msg132790#msg132790 date=1299923676] well... we need not get carried away, minatasgeel. there was nothing in what i said to suggest that i was looking for an 'argument'. and i am not going to accept you invitation, either. be good to yourself :)
well i have to say, that's not what i was looking for....but i do hate when someone refers to what i wrote, say what they want without understanding, and expect me to accept it.
well i have to say, that's not what i was looking for....but i do hate when someone refers to what i wrote, say what they want without understanding, and expect me to accept it.
[quote author=jenny link=topic=10738.msg130783#msg130783 date=1297873713] What is our church's view regarding the protestant belief that judgement day will come on this date, may 21, 2011? I always believed what our Lord said, "he will come like a thief in the night..." without warning.. Please give me your opinions... (Actually what they say is May 21 2011 starts the rapture and then supposedly december 21st is the actual judgement day...)
Well my Birthday is in June, and I want to celebrate it in style (as it is my 25th) so I hope it isn't. Last time I checked, protestants tend to have about 10 Judgement days a year, so I am sure this is just another drill.
Our Church believes the same that the bible states:
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
This means that not even the Son or the angels who are all in heaven know despite them being close to God. Only God himself knows. Do you really think that the humans made of dust on earth know when the world will end when the angels and holies in heaven don't even have a clue? Our church only emphasizes on repentance and confession for we know not the day it will come. We don't follow anything related to this hypothesis. Just prepare yourself for whenever God choses it.
You know, most of us here would not agree that May 21st is Judgement day. That's insane. But thinking about the whole concept brought me to think....say Judgement day is near, am I confident that I will be in the hands of our Father? Am I sure that I will be joining the choir of angels and saints?
Am I afraid of Judgement day or looking forward to it?
What if tomorrow is Judgement day, or May 21st or even tonight....am I ready?
[quote author=prodigal link=topic=10738.msg137396#msg137396 date=1304568302] You know, most of us here would not agree that May 21st is Judgement day. That's insane. But thinking about the whole concept brought me to think....say Judgement day is near, am I confident that I will be in the hands of our Father? Am I sure that I will be joining the choir of angels and saints?
Am I afraid of Judgement day or looking forward to it?
What if tomorrow is Judgement day, or May 21st or even tonight....am I ready?
Just a sharing.
Ps. I am personally not ready.
i get the reason you might say this....but it's not right to believe so. Christ didn't come and lied a "white lie" to people to give them salvation.
[quote author=fanp94 link=topic=10738.msg137390#msg137390 date=1304561017] Our Church believes the same that the bible states:
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
This means that not even the Son or the angels who are all in heaven know despite them being close to God. Only God himself knows. Do you really think that the humans made of dust on earth know when the world will end when the angels and holies in heaven don't even have a clue? Our church only emphasizes on repentance and confession for we know not the day it will come. We don't follow anything related to this hypothesis. Just prepare yourself for whenever God choses it.
+!God Bless!+
I think misunderstood the verse on one point. You r totally correct about how not even the angels know. The wrong point is when you say the Son doesn't even know. The Son and God (the Father) are one. The Son of course knows when the time is but I read from st. John Chrysostom that Jesus said this so that they wouldn't dare ask Jesus when the end of the world will be.
I gave a lesson to my 7th grade class on this verse. I told them to imagine a stayhome mom takes care of her 5 year old son. And every day the son asks, "What time is Daddy coming home?" She tells him 5:00pm. Everyday he comes home at 5:00pm. And everyday the son asks the mother, "What time is daddy coming home?" After 2 months of answering his question and he continues to repeat it, she finally says, "I don't know." Any parent here will attest to saying the same thing when their kids reask an answered question. I asked my class, "Do you really think the mom doesn't know when the father is coming home?" Of course, not. She does know even if she said she doesn't know. She only said this because the child cannot grasp the information and it became a stumbling block. In the same way, Christ knows the date of the end of the world but chooses not to tell us out of His love because it would stumble us and cause us to sin. We can't grasp this information.
Put another way, what would you feel if you knew the future? If you knew you were going to hell or if you knew you were going to heaven, would it be a gift or would it be a curse? A curse. Because you would not strive to go down the narrow gate. You would take heaven for granted. And the devil has more ammunition to fight you with. Look at what Jesus told us, "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap." (Luke 21:34) But thank God we only know certain things about the end of the world so we can keep watch.
This brings me to my second point. As Coptic Orthodox, we are fixed on one school of thought or teaching without actually questioning if it is valid. Apparantly, if the specific teahching is popularly held at face-value, the act of questioning somehow makes us "Protestant". This is what lightening was alluding to. It is wrong.
We are so fixed on Mark 13:32 that there is no date for the end of the world, that we often forget that Jesus already gave us signs of the end of the world in Matthew 25, Mark 13, Luke 21. Yes, he did not give us a specific date but he did give us a time frame. He made a pretty good analogy to illustrat this. "When you look at a fig tree and if you see tender twigs and leaves, you know summer is here." He gave us lots of signs. Maybe if we listed them we can get a fairly good idea of what Jesus wanted to tell us.
1. Many false Christs will appear. This is the beginning of the suffering (He called it "the beginning of birth pain" 2. We must stand before rulers to give an account of Christ. 3. Our own family will testify against us. 4. When you see armies around Jerusalem, the end is near. (Luk 21:20). Fleeing to the mountains will occur. This is allegoric. 5. The abomination that causes desolation will occur: Daniel 9. 6. The sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. The stars will fall from the sky and the heavens shaken. 7. The secret power of lawlessness is already working. But it is being held back by someone who will be taken out of the way (2 Thes 7). This probably means an angel is holding back lawlessness but eventually he will be ordered to be taken away. 8. A rebellion will occur and the "Man of lawlessness" will be revealed, the Anti-Christ. 2 Thes 2:4 actually describes the Abomination that causes desolation: "He [the Man of lawlessness] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God." (In other words, there will be no end of the world without the anti-christ.) 9. The Son of Man will appear in the clouds (Mat, Mark and Luk) and the Man of lawlessness will be overthrown. (2 Thes 2:8) 10. The dead in Christ will rise first. Then those who are still alive will meet the Lord in the air and live with him forever. (1 Thes 4:17). Obviously, here St Paul left out the suffering and spoke about the result.
We can all agree that this is a lot of information about the end of times. In Revelation is the is a whole lot more information.
Conclusion: 1. Yes, no one knows the hour and date of the end of times. 2. Jesus does know. He gave us many signs. 3. There are enough signs given to us before the end of the world for us to know that the end of the world is happening when it will happening, not before it happens. In this, Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’ " (Isa 46:10) 4. All the Biblical accounts agree that it is not the date of the end of the world that is important, nor is it the gravity of the suffering. The important thing to remember and focus on is "Jesus will come again so we can live with Him forever."
My Servant's prep teacher told us that once one thing happens (I think the appearance of the Anti-Christ), there will be a known time when the end will come ( i think he said 3 years and a few months/days). So we may have a chance to prepare for Judgement Day. But we don't know if we will ever reach that day.
Comments
I hope that doesn't happen!! My birthday is May 22nd!!
hahaha, don't worry,it wont happen, u can joyfully celebrate ur b-day 22 may ;)
[quote author=AikotiEnsok link=topic=10738.msg131380#msg131380 date=1298391029]
I hope that doesn't happen!! My birthday is May 22nd!!
hahaha, don't worry,it wont happen, u can joyfully celebrate ur b-day 22 may ;)
.عيد ميلادي 10 يونيو
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1761366075566&oid=171663012868146&comments
[quote author=+Marmar+ link=topic=10738.msg131400#msg131400 date=1298406244]
[quote author=AikotiEnsok link=topic=10738.msg131380#msg131380 date=1298391029]
I hope that doesn't happen!! My birthday is May 22nd!!
hahaha, don't worry,it wont happen, u can joyfully celebrate ur b-day 22 may ;)
.عيد ميلادي 10 يونيو
ah, 10 juni, lisa badry bas bardo ha2olik happy birthday! :)
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE KNOWS WHEN JUDGEMENT DAY IS, ONLY GOD IS TO SAY WHEN THE END OF THE WORLD IS-OR JUDGEMENT, U CANNOT MAKE A DATE FOR JUDGEMENT DAY >:(
jup, that's definitely true.
[quote author=Khas. link=topic=10738.msg131427#msg131427 date=1298416218]
[quote author=+Marmar+ link=topic=10738.msg131400#msg131400 date=1298406244]
[quote author=AikotiEnsok link=topic=10738.msg131380#msg131380 date=1298391029]
I hope that doesn't happen!! My birthday is May 22nd!!
hahaha, don't worry,it wont happen, u can joyfully celebrate ur b-day 22 may ;)
.عيد ميلادي 10 يونيو
ah, 10 juni, lisa badry bas bardo ha2olik happy birthday! :)
shokran ya marmar!
[quote author=jenny link=topic=10738.msg130783#msg130783 date=1297873713]
What is our church's view regarding the protestant belief that judgement day will come on this date, may 21, 2011? ..)
i think your question reveals terrifying levels of ignorance! (sorry for putting it so bluntly but this is quite an understatement!!!!!)
may21,2011 is NOT a PROTESTANT belief!!! it is a YOUTUBE belief!!!
please do not mix them up, if you want to respect yourself...
Lightening:
You don't need to be so harsh, this was an innocent question. I'm not saying all protestants believe this. This came from a christian tv program and christian radio program. The guy's name is Harold Camping and he's got a lot of people worried. Maybe they are weak minded, but it was just a question. Calm down.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/end-of-the-world-comments/?iref=allsearch
there is no reference on this link to any protestant church which supports the 21may 2011 event.
i wonder if you actually read the article..
i am afraid your sight is badly impaired!!
there is no reference on this link to any protestant church which supports the 21may 2011 event.
i wonder if you actually read the article..
that is correct. the whole movement is independent of any specific denomination. BUT, Protestantism is not a denomination...it's a "division"...google it and you'll see. 3 divisions of Christianity: Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism. whoever is not in the first 2 is part of the third.
NOW, i would never go as far as saying "Protestantism beliefs this" but we can say that "This is a protestant belief" simply by understating Protestantism: a protest movement against the original Church (if it was Orthodoxy or Catholicism).
on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions.
it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma.
i think it is totally acceptable and honest to say 'i utterly reject protestantism' but it is not so if instead we start blaming protestantism for every heresy that crops up on the religious platform. this is not helpful in any way.
without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011.
on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions.
it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma.
i think it is totally acceptable and honest to say 'i utterly reject protestantism' but it is not so if instead we start blaming protestantism for every heresy that crops up on the religious platform. this is not helpful in any way.
Well said
without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011.
on the other hand, it can be said that the particular view about this event may cross the boundaries of all these 3 divisions you referred to. you will find victims of this heresy in all 3 divisions.
it is also true to say that the promulgators of this heresy are mainly connected to protestant division. however, the view itself does not stem from protestant teaching and indeed has nothing to do with that which defines protestant dogma.
i think it is totally acceptable and honest to say 'i utterly reject protestantism' but it is not so if instead we start blaming protestantism for every heresy that crops up on the religious platform. this is not helpful in any way.
Protestants have dogma?
without agreeing or disagreeing with your classification, i would like to say that what makes protestantism distinct from catholicity and orthodoxy is not the view about may 21 2011.
i didn't say it is defined by this view. read what i said again. carefully please. i also didn't speak about this. but now that you said it, i can't judge the "victims" (more like follower) of this view but the VIEW ITSELF. come on....i thought by know you know that we always judge the view, the faith rather than the person who practices it simply because he or she might not do so perfectly. i really doubt you understood anything of what i said.
there was nothing in what i said to suggest that i was looking for an 'argument'.
and i am not going to accept you invitation, either.
be good to yourself :)
well... we need not get carried away, minatasgeel.
there was nothing in what i said to suggest that i was looking for an 'argument'.
and i am not going to accept you invitation, either.
be good to yourself :)
well i have to say, that's not what i was looking for....but i do hate when someone refers to what i wrote, say what they want without understanding, and expect me to accept it.
I agreeee 1000000%
How many days until then?
Let's start a countdown to May 21st.
How many days until then?
useless question!!... just check the calendar mate!
What is our church's view regarding the protestant belief that judgement day will come on this date, may 21, 2011? I always believed what our Lord said, "he will come like a thief in the night..." without warning.. Please give me your opinions... (Actually what they say is May 21 2011 starts the rapture and then supposedly december 21st is the actual judgement day...)
Well my Birthday is in June, and I want to celebrate it in style (as it is my 25th) so I hope it isn't.
Last time I checked, protestants tend to have about 10 Judgement days a year, so I am sure this is just another drill.
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
This means that not even the Son or the angels who are all in heaven know despite them being close to God. Only God himself knows. Do you really think that the humans made of dust on earth know when the world will end when the angels and holies in heaven don't even have a clue? Our church only emphasizes on repentance and confession for we know not the day it will come. We don't follow anything related to this hypothesis. Just prepare yourself for whenever God choses it.
+!God Bless!+
Am I afraid of Judgement day or looking forward to it?
What if tomorrow is Judgement day, or May 21st or even tonight....am I ready?
Just a sharing.
Ps. I am personally not ready.
You know, most of us here would not agree that May 21st is Judgement day. That's insane. But thinking about the whole concept brought me to think....say Judgement day is near, am I confident that I will be in the hands of our Father? Am I sure that I will be joining the choir of angels and saints?
Am I afraid of Judgement day or looking forward to it?
What if tomorrow is Judgement day, or May 21st or even tonight....am I ready?
Just a sharing.
Ps. I am personally not ready.
i get the reason you might say this....but it's not right to believe so. Christ didn't come and lied a "white lie" to people to give them salvation.
Our Church believes the same that the bible states:
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
This means that not even the Son or the angels who are all in heaven know despite them being close to God. Only God himself knows. Do you really think that the humans made of dust on earth know when the world will end when the angels and holies in heaven don't even have a clue? Our church only emphasizes on repentance and confession for we know not the day it will come. We don't follow anything related to this hypothesis. Just prepare yourself for whenever God choses it.
+!God Bless!+
I think misunderstood the verse on one point. You r totally correct about how not even the angels know. The wrong point is when you say the Son doesn't even know. The Son and God (the Father) are one. The Son of course knows when the time is but I read from st. John Chrysostom that Jesus said this so that they wouldn't dare ask Jesus when the end of the world will be.
I gave a lesson to my 7th grade class on this verse. I told them to imagine a stayhome mom takes care of her 5 year old son. And every day the son asks, "What time is Daddy coming home?" She tells him 5:00pm. Everyday he comes home at 5:00pm. And everyday the son asks the mother, "What time is daddy coming home?" After 2 months of answering his question and he continues to repeat it, she finally says, "I don't know." Any parent here will attest to saying the same thing when their kids reask an answered question. I asked my class, "Do you really think the mom doesn't know when the father is coming home?" Of course, not. She does know even if she said she doesn't know. She only said this because the child cannot grasp the information and it became a stumbling block. In the same way, Christ knows the date of the end of the world but chooses not to tell us out of His love because it would stumble us and cause us to sin. We can't grasp this information.
Put another way, what would you feel if you knew the future? If you knew you were going to hell or if you knew you were going to heaven, would it be a gift or would it be a curse? A curse. Because you would not strive to go down the narrow gate. You would take heaven for granted. And the devil has more ammunition to fight you with. Look at what Jesus told us, "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap." (Luke 21:34) But thank God we only know certain things about the end of the world so we can keep watch.
This brings me to my second point. As Coptic Orthodox, we are fixed on one school of thought or teaching without actually questioning if it is valid. Apparantly, if the specific teahching is popularly held at face-value, the act of questioning somehow makes us "Protestant". This is what lightening was alluding to. It is wrong.
We are so fixed on Mark 13:32 that there is no date for the end of the world, that we often forget that Jesus already gave us signs of the end of the world in Matthew 25, Mark 13, Luke 21. Yes, he did not give us a specific date but he did give us a time frame. He made a pretty good analogy to illustrat this. "When you look at a fig tree and if you see tender twigs and leaves, you know summer is here." He gave us lots of signs. Maybe if we listed them we can get a fairly good idea of what Jesus wanted to tell us.
1. Many false Christs will appear. This is the beginning of the suffering (He called it "the beginning of birth pain"
2. We must stand before rulers to give an account of Christ.
3. Our own family will testify against us.
4. When you see armies around Jerusalem, the end is near. (Luk 21:20). Fleeing to the mountains will occur. This is allegoric.
5. The abomination that causes desolation will occur: Daniel 9.
6. The sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. The stars will fall from the sky and the heavens shaken.
7. The secret power of lawlessness is already working. But it is being held back by someone who will be taken out of the way (2 Thes 7). This probably means an angel is holding back lawlessness but eventually he will be ordered to be taken away.
8. A rebellion will occur and the "Man of lawlessness" will be revealed, the Anti-Christ. 2 Thes 2:4 actually describes the Abomination that causes desolation: "He [the Man of lawlessness] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God." (In other words, there will be no end of the world without the anti-christ.)
9. The Son of Man will appear in the clouds (Mat, Mark and Luk) and the Man of lawlessness will be overthrown. (2 Thes 2:8)
10. The dead in Christ will rise first. Then those who are still alive will meet the Lord in the air and live with him forever. (1 Thes 4:17). Obviously, here St Paul left out the suffering and spoke about the result.
We can all agree that this is a lot of information about the end of times. In Revelation is the is a whole lot more information.
Conclusion:
1. Yes, no one knows the hour and date of the end of times.
2. Jesus does know. He gave us many signs.
3. There are enough signs given to us before the end of the world for us to know that the end of the world is happening when it will happening, not before it happens. In this, Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’ " (Isa 46:10)
4. All the Biblical accounts agree that it is not the date of the end of the world that is important, nor is it the gravity of the suffering. The important thing to remember and focus on is "Jesus will come again so we can live with Him forever."
I would love to hear your thoughts.
George
Can someone please confirm what I said above?