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Mentanias?

Natalie INatalie I
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Hello,
Soo fasting is coming to an end soon meaning mentanias are as well. My question is why should i not do mentanias during Pentecost i know the 50 days are a time of joy but is repentance not joyful? and also just because the we will be in a time of joy it doesn't mean my sins no longer exist or that i am not a sinner right? should i not still be repentant? i don't maybe something wasn't fully explained to me or i am missing something but i find mentanias amazing in spirituality and helpful and relieving so i don't like to discontinue them ...

God bless and may God give us all grace by His passion
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Comments

  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    There is a blessing in being aware of our sins and wishing to perform metanias, and not being able to because of our obedience to the tradition of the Church. This is like wanting to fast but not being able to. There is a blessing in being able to be both joyful and penitent. We have to consider how we change our lives so that even while not fasting we do not lose self control and learn to moderate what we eat. Likewise we need to change our lives so that even while not living as if it were Lent we find other ways to express a keen desire for holiness.

    There is one sense in which the season is provided for us to show what we have learned and experienced during Lent. When Pascha comes and we do not fast for 50 days will we slip back into excess, or has the period of fasting changed our relationship with the desire for food? When Pascha comes and we do not perform metanias will we slip back into self-indulgence, or has the period of performing metanias made a difference so that we are more focused on spiritual things at all times?

    So I see this as a positive time for testing in a different way. Putting into practice what Lent has taught us. We offer God the moderation in eating we have learned. We offer God our attention to spiritual things. We positively pray more Psalms rather than perform metanias. We direct our attention, in some sense, away from our own sinfulness, towards God's glory, and occupy ourselves with worshipping Him for these 50 days rather than being filled with a sense of our own weakness. There will be time enough for that when the season ends. These different seasons, coming each year, are an expression of the wisdom of the Church led by the Holy Spirit.

    Father Peter
  • imikhailimikhail
    Beautiful explanation.

    Thanks Fr. Peter
  • Natalie INatalie I
    Wow thank you Father Peter. That makes a lot of sense, when I was told not to do mentanias the reason said was just because we are in a joyful period and that didn't seem to click to much in my head haha thanks again and please pray for my weakness
  • mabsootamabsoota
    you can still bow your head saying the 'kyrie eleison' and making the sign of the cross. and like father peter said, it's the attitude and the love for God that are important.
  • Natalie INatalie I
    I understand and actually love the point Father Peter made but in honesty a simple bow would not suffice, the mentania not only serves a spritual purpose for me but actually relieves the pain in my back I don't know I just love the mentania but now I like the idea of a new repentance and living to find a connection with God in ways other than my usual comforts and focusing on the Glory and mercy of God rather than myself and my sins and my needs from God I just hope to grow spiritually I am quite lacking in all ways of spirituality so I am still at the point where I am striving for growth
    Thank you and God bless
  • mabsootamabsoota
    i understand, but i think that the good thing about the 50 days is that after we get used to being close to God, we continue that relationship without any external props like bowing, fasting, looking at our favourite icon etc. so that way, if we become sick or have to move countries or go to prison (eg. without deserving it) then we will still be close to God, and our relationship continues without anything physical to help that.

    the physical 'props' are great, and i find the incense, icons and music really helpful. however the relationship with God is above the physical level, and it is good to pray sometimes without any external help.
    please pray for me too, as i find it quite hard to pray without the external help sometimes as well.
  • imikhailimikhail
    During the holy fifty days it is beneficial to focus on resurrection of our Lord through which we will also be resurrected and be transformed from being earthly being heavenly.

    The Gospels during the 50 days are all about the heaven and eternity and being filled with the Holy Spirit. That is why the Church reads the Book Revelations to prepare us for heaven for this is the focus of all of our worship.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    about tomorrow, is it ok to prostrate in church on a saturday?
    i know sundays u shouldn't do a full prostration and weekdays you can, but i am confused about saturdays.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    also, i was just looking for the vespers Bible readings as it's liturgy tomorrow but there aren't any. i thought you have vespers when there is (or could be liturgy) and you don't have vespers when there is no liturgy.
    can someone explain? i have obviously misunderstood.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    While on the subject of metanias, I have been told that after receiving communion we should not prostrate. . .is that correct?
  • imikhailimikhail

    about tomorrow, is it ok to prostrate in church on a saturday?
    i know sundays u shouldn't do a full prostration and weekdays you can, but i am confused about saturdays.

    Saturdays are treated the same as Sundays in rituals and hymns.

    The only Saturday that is different is Bright Saturday where matanyas and fasting are allowed.

    Thanks.
  • imikhailimikhail

    While on the subject of metanias, I have been told that after receiving communion we should not prostrate. . .is that correct?

    This is correct
  • imikhailimikhail

    also, i was just looking for the vespers Bible readings as it's liturgy tomorrow but there aren't any. i thought you have vespers when there is (or could be liturgy) and you don't have vespers when there is no liturgy.
    can someone explain? i have obviously misunderstood.

    During the Great Lent there is no vesper prayer because liturgies are prayed late and communion is after sunset.

    Thanks.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11255.msg136124#msg136124 date=1302899475]

    While on the subject of metanias, I have been told that after receiving communion we should not prostrate. . .is that correct?

    This is correct


    The reason?
  • mabsootamabsoota
    you have the Body and Blood of our Lord within you, so you do not bow down. He is in us in a really special way, so we bow before receiving Him, not after.
    i learnt this after my first Holy Communion, where i got it wrong!

    and thanks imikhail, i didn't realise that.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=mabsoota link=topic=11255.msg136128#msg136128 date=1302901225]
    you have the Body and Blood of our Lord within you, so you do not bow down. He is in us in a really special way, so we bow before receiving Him, not after.
    i learnt this after my first Holy Communion, where i got it wrong!

    and thanks imikhail, i didn't realise that.


    But, certainly, we do still bow after taking communion. Think of when the acolytes take communion first - while the Body and Blood are still on the altar - when they are finished and the communion is given to the rest of the people the priest turns around and everyone bows saying "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." Should the acolytes who have taken communion already not bow?
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    No they should not bow.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11255.msg136126#msg136126 date=1302899709]

    also, i was just looking for the vespers Bible readings as it's liturgy tomorrow but there aren't any. i thought you have vespers when there is (or could be liturgy) and you don't have vespers when there is no liturgy.
    can someone explain? i have obviously misunderstood.

    During the Great Lent there is no vesper prayer because liturgies are prayed late and communion is after sunset.

    Thanks.



    That is not the case with all liturgies during the Great Lent (e.g. some liturgies start at 12pm). Most churches pray only one or two liturgies late. The majority of days, the sun has not yet during communion.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=11255.msg136134#msg136134 date=1302929770]
    No they should not bow.


    Makes sense but a part of me cannot help but bowing. It seems I have not fully realized the mystery of communion.
  • imikhailimikhail

    That is not the case with all liturgies during the Great Lent (e.g. some liturgies start at 12pm). Most churches pray only one or two liturgies late. The majority of days, the sun has not yet during communion.

    I understand what you are saying Unowthy1.

    Fasting should be till sunset, but because people nowadays cannot practice the ideal way of fasting, churches started praying earlier. However, the Church received the practice from the Apostles and put the rites accordingly.

    Thanks.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    you can certainly bow your heads, as it says in the liturgy 'bow your heads' after Holy Communion.
    but actually kneeling down or prostrating (metania) is not appropriate.
    you can get used to it, and just bow your heart as well as your head, leaving bowing the whole body till the next day.
    it is the attitude of your heart that is important, and God will bless you for your love for Him.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    I am not sure that we say "bow your heads" after the communion (if you are referring to the deacons exchanging responses), that is before the communion.

    Even if it was after the communion, what is the difference between bowing and prostrating?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I can't recall any instruction for us to bow our head after communion. Can anyone check a liturgy book, I am away from my desk at the moment.
  • imikhailimikhail
    After communion there is a prayer the priest says called the "The Prayer of Submission to the Father". Before the priest says it, the deacon cries out: "Bow your heads before the Lord", the congregation replies "Before you O Lord"

    Thanks
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11255.msg136156#msg136156 date=1302979006]
    After communion there is a prayer the priest says called the "The Prayer of Submission to the Father". Before the priest says it, the deacon cries out: "Bow your heads before the Lord", the congregation replies "Before you O Lord"

    Thanks


    That is before communion . . .
  • imikhailimikhail
    There is one before and one after communion.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    To my knowledge the deacons (in the sanctuary) never say any responses after the communion. And the congregation only prays Psalm 150 along with other communion melodies followed by the conclusion.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11255.msg136159#msg136159 date=1302980363]
    No it is after.


    If you are referring to "Taske falas emon . . ." that is definitely before communion
  • imikhailimikhail
    There is on after communion called "The Prayer of Submission to the Father" that is said after the Thanksgiving Prayer

    "Your servants O Lord, who are serving You, entreating Your holy name and bowing  their heads to You. ........"

    Before the priest prays this prayer, the deacon is supposed to cry out "Bow your heads before the Lord" and the congregation replies "Before you O Lord"

    Thanks.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11255.msg136162#msg136162 date=1302980804]
    There is on after communion called "The Prayer of Submission to the Father" that is said after the Thanksgiving Prayer

    "Your servants O Lord, who are serving You, entreating Your holy name and bowing  their heads to You. ........"

    Before the priest prays this prayer, the deacon is supposed to cry out "Bow your heads before the Lord" and the congregation replies "Before you O Lord"

    Thanks.


    imikhail, I see what you are referring to now. However, this instruction for the people to "bow their heads" is no different than the instruction to bow anywhere else during the liturgy. When the deacon says "worship God in fear and trembling" the liturgy book also says the people "bow their head." Both are the same exact wording and the same exact instruction.

    So, why in one case do we fully prostrate and in another only bow the head while standing? Is there really any difference between the two?
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