Okay. I'm just curious because I am used to the other way around (in the RC church you have to confess before communion, and if you can't so you have to sit out while others take communion then that's your problem), but I don't want to bring my prejudices into the Coptic Orthodox Church.
Orthodoxy in general has developed different attitudes to confession, which tend to vary with frequency of communion. In those places and times when communion is infrequent then confession and lengthy preparation are usually enjoined, but where communion has been frequent, even more than weekly, then confession before each reception of communion has tended not to be required because the communicant will normally have a very active relationship with their priest.
It is more important, generally speaking, that the person have a working relationship with their spiritual father who helps guide their spiritual life, than that they mechanically confess before each communion. I have been in some places where folk will approach a priest during the Liturgy, not have a conversation at all, and be considered to have confessed.
As usual, what matters is what does a person's spiritual father suggest and require of his spiritual children for their salvation. This matters more than anything else, and the fact that he may require some spiritual practices from one person, and different practices from another, should not normally be a matter of open discussion since in each case the particular medicine is prescribed for the salvation of the particular person.
When it comes to obediance, for us, it is a precursor to recieving our reward in Heaven. The more we're obediant the more the reward we recieve.
If a Preist asks his congregation not to brush their teeth then isn't he thinking that he wants his congregation glorifying GOD in a higher honour.
There were ones in the old testament, that were close to GOD's will and obediant. Jesus, after he died on the cross, brought them up from Hades into Heaven. Those people understood GOD's will because their relationship was strong with the love of GOD. They followed his instruction because GOD protected them; proved himself in righteousness; and provided for them their needs and preperations of direction. The latter through the Prophets.
Those are the ones who were always obediant because it was in their hearts and minds to be so, however, the ones who hearts and minds were hard they relyed on the rules or laws. But in many cases, the law proved inadaquate to recieve GOD's will and was open to abuse by those who had a hard heart and rejected people whom GOD loved.So really, even if your hearts and minds aren't as strong as they should be, then in the last instance, shouldn't we follow the rules for the sake of getting as close to GOD as we can.
When it comes to how women are treated. Then I think that it is only in the last hundred years or so,that women on the whole, have tried to be in equal with men. Before then, it was men who, protected, proved themselves, and provided. The women were the ones who supported the men. The men respected the women. We show respect by caring. We don't have to agree but we can care. There were some women in the old testament who took the lead but that was because the men who were supposed to lead, weren't strong in wisdom. If women are the weaker vessel, and as men we feel not only as it being our tradition to protect for this is GOD's will, and knowing that the weak suffer greatly, then the benefit to women would be there closeness to GOD. For GOD looks after the weak. I hope women can accept their weaknesses as a conscious decision to obey as not to affect people into disobediance.
[quote author=dzheremi link=topic=9640.msg133968#msg133968 date=1300997970] [quote author=T✞TL link=topic=9640.msg133959#msg133959 date=1300993700] If I sinned, I would still take communion then make an appointment to confess.
Hmm. Is this the teaching of the Church, or just what your parents told you? (Not saying your parents are going against the Church; just asking because I'm new so I don't know what the Church says about confession and communion.)
To add to what Father Peter said, (though Im not sure if this is the same case in the BOC, I would assume it is) That within almost every service there is an absolution prayer intertwined somewhere in the service. For example, after vespers and matins the priest prays the absolution to the Son. This is not in lieu of an actual confession but serves as an absolution for those who are, "in between" if you will. There is also the absolution of the servants, of which this must be attended if you plan to serve in the liturgy that week. As I was taught, these absolutions exist so that had you confessed but say you have sinned once again between your last confession and the service being held you are absolved so that you may serve. For example, you confess saturday night but say you sin on your way home, someone cuts you off and you curse at them or lose your temper. The next day as long as you are at the liturgy before the absolution of the servants you may still serve in the liturgy, without necessarily having to confess again. Of course confessing again is the best option but these absolutions have been put in place almost as a safety net for in between confessions and sins we aren't even aware of. However, I do not mention this so that there is an excuse to skip confessions all together, far be it from that.
On a side note-Though the practice these days is to allow for those who want to serve, serve as long as they are there before this absolution, the correct practice is for the deacons to be at church before the priest and any service preparing everything that needs to be prepared and to have ideally prayed the matins prayer in the agpeya as well as the morning doxology.
lent is the busiest time for any abouna as everyone is busy confessing and getting their head sorted. look out for it after easter! and may God bless everyone as we are about to enter Holy week! :)
Yes you are allowed but I know that priests don't like taking confessions during Passion Week and strongly encourage everyone to have confessed by Lazarus Saturday. This is because of limited time between pascha services and personally I think priests need the personal time to enjoy and benefit from Passion Week like everyone else.
Comments
I'll leave this one to Fr. Peter because my opinion will be bias.
It is more important, generally speaking, that the person have a working relationship with their spiritual father who helps guide their spiritual life, than that they mechanically confess before each communion. I have been in some places where folk will approach a priest during the Liturgy, not have a conversation at all, and be considered to have confessed.
As usual, what matters is what does a person's spiritual father suggest and require of his spiritual children for their salvation. This matters more than anything else, and the fact that he may require some spiritual practices from one person, and different practices from another, should not normally be a matter of open discussion since in each case the particular medicine is prescribed for the salvation of the particular person.
If a Preist asks his congregation not to brush their teeth then isn't he thinking that he wants his congregation glorifying GOD in a higher honour.
There were ones in the old testament, that were close to GOD's will and obediant. Jesus, after he died on the cross, brought them up from Hades into Heaven. Those people understood GOD's will because their relationship was strong with the love of GOD. They followed his instruction because GOD protected them; proved himself in righteousness; and provided for them their needs and preperations of direction. The latter through the Prophets.
Those are the ones who were always obediant because it was in their hearts and minds to be so, however, the ones who hearts and minds were hard they relyed on the rules or laws. But in many cases, the law proved inadaquate to recieve GOD's will and was open to abuse by those who had a hard heart and rejected people whom GOD loved.So really, even if your hearts and minds aren't as strong as they should be, then in the last instance, shouldn't we follow the rules for the sake of getting as close to GOD as we can.
When it comes to how women are treated. Then I think that it is only in the last hundred years or so,that women on the whole, have tried to be in equal with men. Before then, it was men who, protected, proved themselves, and provided. The women were the ones who supported the men. The men respected the women. We show respect by caring. We don't have to agree but we can care. There were some women in the old testament who took the lead but that was because the men who were supposed to lead, weren't strong in wisdom.
If women are the weaker vessel, and as men we feel not only as it being our tradition to protect for this is GOD's will, and knowing that the weak suffer greatly, then the benefit to women would be there closeness to GOD. For GOD looks after the weak. I hope women can accept their weaknesses as a conscious decision to obey as not to affect people into disobediance.
[quote author=T✞TL link=topic=9640.msg133959#msg133959 date=1300993700]
If I sinned, I would still take communion then make an appointment to confess.
Hmm. Is this the teaching of the Church, or just what your parents told you? (Not saying your parents are going against the Church; just asking because I'm new so I don't know what the Church says about confession and communion.)
To add to what Father Peter said, (though Im not sure if this is the same case in the BOC, I would assume it is) That within almost every service there is an absolution prayer intertwined somewhere in the service. For example, after vespers and matins the priest prays the absolution to the Son. This is not in lieu of an actual confession but serves as an absolution for those who are, "in between" if you will. There is also the absolution of the servants, of which this must be attended if you plan to serve in the liturgy that week. As I was taught, these absolutions exist so that had you confessed but say you have sinned once again between your last confession and the service being held you are absolved so that you may serve. For example, you confess saturday night but say you sin on your way home, someone cuts you off and you curse at them or lose your temper. The next day as long as you are at the liturgy before the absolution of the servants you may still serve in the liturgy, without necessarily having to confess again. Of course confessing again is the best option but these absolutions have been put in place almost as a safety net for in between confessions and sins we aren't even aware of. However, I do not mention this so that there is an excuse to skip confessions all together, far be it from that.
On a side note-Though the practice these days is to allow for those who want to serve, serve as long as they are there before this absolution, the correct practice is for the deacons to be at church before the priest and any service preparing everything that needs to be prepared and to have ideally prayed the matins prayer in the agpeya as well as the morning doxology.
You wrote: How do you know that I am making things up. You are basically calling me a liar. Thanks for that.
You also requested some sources Here you go:
Ketab Al Dor Al Thamiene Fe Eda7 Al Deen for Anba Sawiros bishop of Ashmonein
Some Sites:
http://elra3y-elsale7.77forum.com/t1694-topic
http://st-takla.org/Coptic-Faith-Creed-Dogma/Coptic-Rite-n-Ritual-Taks-Al-Kanisa/06-Coptic-Sacraments__Coptic-Clerical-Uni-Cairo/Asrar-El-Kenisa-El-Sab3a_013-Physical-Purity-Eucharist.html
http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123118
Now, will you please post the translation not just for Fr. Peter but for the rest of the members, so we can all benefit.
Thanks and God Bless
Wishing all a blessed Holy Week.
look out for it after easter!
and may God bless everyone as we are about to enter Holy week!
:)
cya
God bless you