If possible, can you please ask him of why we have many different tarkeeb for the hymns of "Onishty emmesterion" I.e. I noticed that almost all cantors say it differently, what is the reason behind that? i.e. Did Muallem Mikhaeel record only one verse & then other cantors tried their best to preserve the hymn by tarkeeb?
[quote author=Michael Boutros link=topic=11631.msg139932#msg139932 date=1308515343] Alright, back on topic...
Silly question, but why is Cantor Ibrahim Ayad's tonya always a slight tint of yellow while the rest of the deacons are white? I mean, surely he does it on purpose, but I always wonder, is he doing it on purpose?
I also noticed that as well Michael. Did you also notice his batrasheel is different than everyone else's as well? And Antoun has been appearing lately with a different slightly fancier one than then rest of the chorus but not as fancy as his! lol
There is a new Wikipedia article started started for Muallim Ibrahim Ayad at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Ayad It would be great if those who have knowledge can edit the entry until there is a complete bio.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=11631.msg139942#msg139942 date=1308519379] [quote author=mshenouda link=topic=11631.msg139937#msg139937 date=1308516548] 3. Could you possibly record all seven verses of "Tenen"?
there are only four parts in tenen.....
Actually, Wagdi Bishara said it himself. There are seven parts of Tenen. And by the way, Bishara, Ayad, and Gad all learned from late Cantor Farag Abdelmessih.
1) Please give us an overview of your biography (City of Birth, age, where you grew up, your upbringing, etc). 2) How were you chosen to become head cantor of the cathedral? 3) From whom did you learn your hymns and which cantor was the most influential in your learning? 4) Are there any hymns or priest parts that you do not know? 5) Have you recorded the complete Liturgy of St. Basil and Liturgy of St. Gregory with the Priest, Deacon, and Congregation parts in Coptic and Liturgy? If so, how can we purchase them in the USA? If not, do you plan on recording these? 6) What are your favorite hymns? 7) Your recording of Pekethronos on a recording made on April 20 1984 as part of recordings with Mounir Shaker and Ramzy Boushra is incredible. Was that recorded live on Good Friday? 8) Some deacons play the cymbals in a very ornate way (double rhythm, etc). What is your opinion of this? 9) What is the earliest recording that is available of you? What year was it recorded and what is on the recording? Is there a way that we can obtain it? 10) It is very difficult to obtain recordings of you in the United States. It would be great if a bookstore of your recordings can be set up perhaps with a distributor or El Maqar. 11) Are your recordings with priests during an actual Liturgy or are they recorded in a studio (example: Fr. Yassa Rizk, Fr. Seweros Morqos etc).
[quote author=mshenouda link=topic=11631.msg139981#msg139981 date=1308600589] Actually, Wagdi Bishara said it himself. There are seven parts of Tenen. i havn't spoken to him for a while.....so i'll have to ask him about this.
And by the way, Bishara, Ayad, and Gad all learned from late Cantor Farag Abdelmessih.
I count the last verse of Tenen, "Evhos Evnoti ensyou niben" as a separate verse. So that makes 5 verses: 1. Tenen 2. Trion 3. Evlogon 4. Menenca 5. Evhos
I remember one psalmody book had a foot note of a separate verse but I can't find it anymore. Since then, I have not found any older manuscripts that have any additional verses (including the Damanhour Psalmody and the 3 manuscripts at St Shenouda Coptic Society, and manuscripts from various libraries (Vatican, Bfn, Pierport Morgan, and others). Mina, please let us know what Wagdi Bishara anyone else can add. George
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=11631.msg139996#msg139996 date=1308614484] I count the last verse of Tenen, "Evhos Evnoti ensyou niben" as a separate verse. So that makes 5 verses: 1. Tenen 2. Trion 3. Evlogon 4. Menenca 5. Evhos
I remember one psalmody book had a foot note of a separate verse but I can't find it anymore. Since then, I have not found any older manuscripts that have any additional verses (including the Damanhour Psalmody and the 3 manuscripts at St Shenouda Coptic Society, and manuscripts from various libraries (Vatican, Bfn, Pierport Morgan, and others). Mina, please let us know what Wagdi Bishara anyone else can add. George
If you are counting that way, then you should also put "evhos" as number 3 after the first two; which would make 6. But what is this 7th some keep mentioning? Besides "evhos," which I don't count as a part, I know of 4; two parts, then "evhos," then another two parts, then "evhos" one more time.
One can't count it that way because Evhos would be there twice. We are talking about distinct verses. Whether you say verses 3 and 4 and jump to verse 5 doesn't mean verse 5 should be there twice.
I read the link by Wagdi Bishara. He said there is 4 verses. I guess I'm the only one who separates Evhos. Regardless, I have not seen any texts that have additional verses (that I can reference, at least). Anybody else have any ideas what the 2 (or 3) additional verses of Tenen are?
One can't count it that way because Evhos would be there twice. We are talking about distinct verses. Whether you say verses 3 and 4 and jump to verse 5 doesn't mean verse 5 should be there twice.
I read the link by Wagdi Bishara. He said there is 4 verses. I guess I'm the only one who separates Evhos. Regardless, I have not seen any texts that have additional verses (that I can reference, at least). Anybody else have any ideas what the 2 (or 3) additional verses of Tenen are?
maybe it's possible that he counts Evhos and Menensa again but with a differnt source of text. Remnkimi, you did a paper on Tenen....you know that those 2 parts have the most differences as printed in differnt books.
Dear minatasgeel, Even though I have never met or seen you, I love you because you are my brother in Christ and I admire your zealous efforts and passion for the rites of the church. However, I don't know about everyone else, but I am getting slightly annoyed and bothered that you keep responding to everyone's question. Could you please just let people submit their questions in peace without your input every five second. I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you and God bless.
May the Prayers of the Apostles be with You, ToLiveIsChrist&ToDieIsGain (Andrew)
[quote author=TITL link=topic=11631.msg140070#msg140070 date=1308748465] I'm sorry, but that was the worst interview show I've ever seen.
I watched for the first two hours (I'm assuming it went on for another 6 hours), and they didn't even start asking our questions yet.
only 3 28-min parts. it was not a bad interview.....you guys are the ones who just want questions answered before you even know the guy we are talking to.
This was a very good interview. I am glad we had the chance to learn more about his background, how he got to where he is, and who he learned from. I am sure the decision to not read the rest of the questions from everyone on here was due to time. Well, maybe that we now know his bio, a second interview can be conducted specific to hymns etc.
Comments
Alright, back on topic...
Silly question, but why is Cantor Ibrahim Ayad's tonya always a slight tint of yellow while the rest of the deacons are white? I mean, surely he does it on purpose, but I always wonder, is he doing it on purpose?
I also noticed that as well Michael. Did you also notice his batrasheel is different than everyone else's as well? And Antoun has been appearing lately with a different slightly fancier one than then rest of the chorus but not as fancy as his! lol
It would be great if those who have knowledge can edit the entry until there is a complete bio.
[quote author=mshenouda link=topic=11631.msg139937#msg139937 date=1308516548]
3. Could you possibly record all seven verses of "Tenen"?
there are only four parts in tenen.....
Actually, Wagdi Bishara said it himself. There are seven parts of Tenen. And by the way, Bishara, Ayad, and Gad all learned from late Cantor Farag Abdelmessih.
1) Please give us an overview of your biography (City of Birth, age, where you grew up, your upbringing, etc).
2) How were you chosen to become head cantor of the cathedral?
3) From whom did you learn your hymns and which cantor was the most influential in your learning?
4) Are there any hymns or priest parts that you do not know?
5) Have you recorded the complete Liturgy of St. Basil and Liturgy of St. Gregory with the Priest, Deacon, and Congregation parts in Coptic and Liturgy? If so, how can we purchase them in the USA? If not, do you plan on recording these?
6) What are your favorite hymns?
7) Your recording of Pekethronos on a recording made on April 20 1984 as part of recordings with Mounir Shaker and Ramzy Boushra is incredible. Was that recorded live on Good Friday?
8) Some deacons play the cymbals in a very ornate way (double rhythm, etc). What is your opinion of this?
9) What is the earliest recording that is available of you? What year was it recorded and what is on the recording? Is there a way that we can obtain it?
10) It is very difficult to obtain recordings of you in the United States. It would be great if a bookstore of your recordings can be set up perhaps with a distributor or El Maqar.
11) Are your recordings with priests during an actual Liturgy or are they recorded in a studio (example: Fr. Yassa Rizk, Fr. Seweros Morqos etc).
Actually, Wagdi Bishara said it himself. There are seven parts of Tenen.
i havn't spoken to him for a while.....so i'll have to ask him about this. at some point of time yes........but not solely.
1. Tenen
2. Trion
3. Evlogon
4. Menenca
5. Evhos
I remember one psalmody book had a foot note of a separate verse but I can't find it anymore. Since then, I have not found any older manuscripts that have any additional verses (including the Damanhour Psalmody and the 3 manuscripts at St Shenouda Coptic Society, and manuscripts from various libraries (Vatican, Bfn, Pierport Morgan, and others). Mina, please let us know what Wagdi Bishara anyone else can add.
George
I count the last verse of Tenen, "Evhos Evnoti ensyou niben" as a separate verse. So that makes 5 verses:
1. Tenen
2. Trion
3. Evlogon
4. Menenca
5. Evhos
I remember one psalmody book had a foot note of a separate verse but I can't find it anymore. Since then, I have not found any older manuscripts that have any additional verses (including the Damanhour Psalmody and the 3 manuscripts at St Shenouda Coptic Society, and manuscripts from various libraries (Vatican, Bfn, Pierport Morgan, and others). Mina, please let us know what Wagdi Bishara anyone else can add.
George
If you are counting that way, then you should also put "evhos" as number 3 after the first two; which would make 6. But what is this 7th some keep mentioning? Besides "evhos," which I don't count as a part, I know of 4; two parts, then "evhos," then another two parts, then "evhos" one more time.
One can't count it that way because Evhos would be there twice. We are talking about distinct verses. Whether you say verses 3 and 4 and jump to verse 5 doesn't mean verse 5 should be there twice.
I read the link by Wagdi Bishara. He said there is 4 verses. I guess I'm the only one who separates Evhos. Regardless, I have not seen any texts that have additional verses (that I can reference, at least). Anybody else have any ideas what the 2 (or 3) additional verses of Tenen are?
Kmeka,
One can't count it that way because Evhos would be there twice. We are talking about distinct verses. Whether you say verses 3 and 4 and jump to verse 5 doesn't mean verse 5 should be there twice.
I read the link by Wagdi Bishara. He said there is 4 verses. I guess I'm the only one who separates Evhos. Regardless, I have not seen any texts that have additional verses (that I can reference, at least). Anybody else have any ideas what the 2 (or 3) additional verses of Tenen are?
maybe it's possible that he counts Evhos and Menensa again but with a differnt source of text. Remnkimi, you did a paper on Tenen....you know that those 2 parts have the most differences as printed in differnt books.
Even though I have never met or seen you, I love you because you are my brother in Christ and I admire your zealous efforts and passion for the rites of the church. However, I don't know about everyone else, but I am getting slightly annoyed and bothered that you keep responding to everyone's question. Could you please just let people submit their questions in peace without your input every five second. I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you and God bless.
May the Prayers of the Apostles be with You,
ToLiveIsChrist&ToDieIsGain (Andrew)
OUjai
I watched for the first two hours (I'm assuming it went on for another 6 hours), and they didn't even start asking our questions yet.
I'm sorry, but that was the worst interview show I've ever seen.
I watched for the first two hours (I'm assuming it went on for another 6 hours), and they didn't even start asking our questions yet.
only 3 28-min parts. it was not a bad interview.....you guys are the ones who just want questions answered before you even know the guy we are talking to.
hmmm....i WAS THERE!!!!! i have the recording.
Who did the interview?
Mina Markos--deacon in Saint Mark's Jersey City.