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Is Pope Archelaus, 18th Pope of Alexandria saint or not?
I found in Coptic Synaxarium for June 26 the commemoration of Pope Archelaus, 18th Pope of Alexandria.
In his biography is written that he accepted Arius in the church against the command of his predecessor Pope Peter the Seal of Martyrs. Because of this he did not remain on the Chair longer than 6 months, then departed.
At the end of his biography is written: " May his prayers be with us. Amen."
It is not mentioned that he repented from this sin. Can you clarify me is he saint or not? And how did he right a wrong?
In his biography is written that he accepted Arius in the church against the command of his predecessor Pope Peter the Seal of Martyrs. Because of this he did not remain on the Chair longer than 6 months, then departed.
At the end of his biography is written: " May his prayers be with us. Amen."
It is not mentioned that he repented from this sin. Can you clarify me is he saint or not? And how did he right a wrong?
Comments
As to his acceptance to Arius, you need to read about how he accepted him ... it was after confessing. The pope had to accept him as did Pope Alexandus.
I just want to tell you that in my Synaxarium the biography about Pope Archelaus is very poor. And it was not mentioned that Arius confessed.
Now you have calmed my soul. :)
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11721.msg140273#msg140273 date=1309129172]
As to his acceptance to Arius, you need to read about how he accepted him ... it was after confessing. The pope had to accept him as did Pope Alexandus
Do you have any sources for this? There is no evidence, from what I've read, that Arius confessed or repented. In fact, it seems Pope Archelaus directly defied his predecessor (the seal of the martyrs and saint Pope Peter I) by allowing Arius back into the Church. And reading on about his successor, Pope Alexander I, Arius was condemned by an Ecumenical Council. The fact that Pope Archelaus was only on the chair for 6 months (and was not martyred) seems to diminish the likelihood of his sainthood. I could be wrong of course, but it would be nice to have other sources on the matter.
Here is an excerpt from the life of Pope Alexander I from Orthodoxwiki: Based on this, it does not look like Pope Alexander supported his predecessors actions, nor did he accept Arius.
I wanted to read about Pope Archelaus in Wikipedia. So I think soon I will read. May be there is some clarification.
Yes, you´ve got my point Κηφᾶς. If there is a remark in the Synaxarium that he stayed no longer than 6 months on his chair and it connected with this action, I doubt about his sainthood. So, now I´m again confused.
If I may ask, is there a reason you're curious about the sainthood of this particular pope?
1 - Listed among the congregation of the popes and his name is mentioned every time during the liturgy.
2 - Listed in the Synexarium and the Church asks for his prayers
3 - Recognized by the other Traditional Churches and is commemorated in their diptych.
4 - St. Athanasius called him "The Great"
Pope Archillaus is a saint as he is:
1 - Listed among the congregation of the popes and his name is mentioned every time during the liturgy.
2 - Listed in the Synexarium and the Church asks for his prayers
3 - Recognized by the other Traditional Churches and is commemorated in their diptych.
4 - St. Athanasius called him "The Great"
1- reference please
2- saw the reference
3- reference please
4- reference please
2- saw the reference
3- reference please -- Greek Orthodox, Latin Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Achillas_of_Alexandria
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=6084
4- reference please -- Coptic Encyclopedia by Atia Aziz Souriel
Thank you but I've seen most of those references. I did not find anything in the diptych. If you could copy and paste it, I would appreciate it. Odds are, if he is mentioned, it is because he was one of the patriarchs of Alexandria who was not directly excommunicated (which would result in him being stricken from the diptych). I was hoping for some others. The problem I have is that he is referred to as an ally of Arius. If that is the case (which it does seem to be) how can he be a saint? The fact that St. Athanasius does refer to him honorifically with 'the Great' does not necessarily make him a saint. I mean, Origen is referred to as 'Master' and yet he is not a saint. Some of his writings may have been Orthodox, but again, the fact that he was an ally of Arius would call into question his orthodoxy. That's why I was hoping for more information.
The see of Alexandria was fierce in her war against Arianism. If Archillaus was an ally of Arius, he would have surely be condemned. However, the fact he is in the diptych is a testimony of his Orthodoxy.
As to you not finding it, you can consult the Khoulagion by Fr. Abd Al Messieh Albaramousy originally printed in 1898 and in its third edition (Arabic/Coptic). Also, you can refer to the hymn Awkas orr Evshes in the deacon book by Nahdet Al kanaes or by Moallem Farag.
+ Irini nem ehmot,
If I may ask, is there a reason you're curious about the sainthood of this particular pope?
This was a question I had as well; It confused me as to why his story was mentioned in the Synexarium.
First do not go by the Synaxarium. Just because someone is in the Synaxarium, it doesn't mean it validates sainthood. This simple fact is proven by the fact that the 18th pope of Alexandria was Achillas, not Archelaus. Archelaus of Neapolis was a fictious figure that some authors used as a pesudonym. (Reference Coptic Encycloped CE). The Synexarium, under Baramouda 22, explicitly states that Alexander was told by Pope Peter that Archelaus would ordain Arius as a priest and Pope Archelaus' short tenure was due to ordaining Arius.
The jury is out on Pope Achillas. It was the historian Sozomen who actually said Pope Achillas' short tenure as pope was due to ordaining Arius. However, Stephen Davis claims Arius may have been ordained by Pope Achillas in 312 AD or by Alexander in 312-316 AD. Otto Meinardus says Achillas was head of the Catechetical School of Alexandria after Prierus: Origen then Heracles, then Dionysius, Theognostus then Prierus, Achillas and Peter before he (Peter) was elected patriarch in 300. That's it. We know nothing else. The History of the Patriarchs of Egypt also repeats the story by Sozomen. HP of Egypt is known for associating calamities as consequences to sins committed by specific people. It is not surprising that the short tenure claim is found in HP
It is possible that the Synaxarium just repeated the story by Sozomen but popular or oral tradition holds Pope Achillas as a saint. The ordination of Arius would not negate the sainthood of a pope. If Pope Alexander ordained Arius, we would not automatically remove his sainthood since we know Pope Alexander spent years fighting Arianism and he presided at the Nicene council to condemn Arius. So whether Pope Achillas or Pope Alexander ordained Arius, it doesn't really effect their patriarchal honor.
Regarding the diptychs and the references of other churches, the evidence is not that strong. Achillas is only mentioned in the diptych of the Greek Church of Alexandria. It makes sense that they would have Achillas on their list of patriarchs. I don't think he is mentioned in the Latin/Catholic diptych. The site you mentioned states Pope Achillas probably the same as Achillas of Alexandria, Bishop Jan 17. So they have 2 Bishop Achillas with 2 different commemoration days. And it says nothing of the diptychs.
I hope this helped.
George
This is perfect. Thank you very much for the information.
Regarding this:
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=11721.msg140447#msg140447 date=1309316719]
First do not go by the Synaxarium. Just because someone is in the Synaxarium, it doesn't mean it validates sainthood. This simple fact is proven by the fact that the 18th pope of Alexandria was Achillas, not Archelaus. Archelaus of Neapolis was a fictious figure that some authors used as a pesudonym. (Reference Coptic Encycloped CE). The Synexarium, under Baramouda 22, explicitly states that Alexander was told by Pope Peter that Archelaus would ordain Arius as a priest and Pope Archelaus' short tenure was due to ordaining Arius.
Would also be possible that 'Archelaus' is just a corruption of the name 'Achillas'? It wouldn't be the first time words (and names) have been corrupted due to translational/pronunciation errors. It could have arisen in a similar fashion to the corruption we see regarding Bright Saturday (or Apocalypse Saturday) being referred to as Abu ghalamsees (Abu ghalamsees being a corruption of Apocalypse).
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1099
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ALEXOFA.HTM
http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j062sdAlexander26.htm
The fact that he is recognized by the Greek Church of Alexandria means that he is recognized by the Greek Church.
Thanks.
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1099
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ALEXOFA.HTM
http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j062sdAlexander26.htm
The fact that he is recognized by the Greek Church of Alexandria means that he is recognized by the Greek Church.
Thanks.
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1099
www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ALEXOFA.HTM
www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j062sdAlexander26.htm
The fact that he is recognized by the Greek Church of Alexandria means that he is recognized by the Greek Church.
Thanks.
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1099
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ALEXOFA.HTM
http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j062sdAlexander26.htm
The fact that he is recognized by the Greek Church of Alexandria means that he is recognized by the Greek Church.
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
The fact that he is recognized by the Greek Church of Alexandria means that he is recognized by the Greek Church.
The name Archilaus and Achillas are the same
Cephas rightly pointed out the existence of different pronunciation and transcription for names. However, I would not call them corruption, rather the way we Copts have pronounced and written those names. So, it may be very well that Archellaus and Achillas are the different ways of saying the name.
Regardless of how we say the name, it is suffice to say that the Pope who succeeded St Peter the 17th and preceded St Alexander the 19th is considered a saint by the Coptic Church and the other Churches.
The Latin Rite does hold Pope Archilaus. Here are some references:
FOR SOME REASON I CANNOT POST THE LINKS AS THEY ARE FLAGGED AS SPAM. SO I WILL POST EACH ONE AT A TIME
The fact that he is recognized by the Greek Church of Alexandria means that he is recognized by the Greek Church.
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/1107.shtml
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1099
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ALEXOFA.HTM
http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j062sdAlexander26.htm
The main question is not how or what his official name was, it is whether he should be considered a saint if he ordained Arius as a priest. I think it doesn't matter if he ordained Arius a priest. He was an Orthodox defender against the Meletian party. That is why St Athanasius called him "Great". And we are not 100% sure that Archillas did ordain Arius.
Regarding the websites you provided imikhail, I think it is only speculative evidence. These are not primary sources. These are mainly websites that don't reference their sources. They can write whatever they want and we will not have any way to know the difference. I'd rather see references to Antiquity historians, journals or official documents of the respective churches. I will consider the diptychs in the liturgy as an official document. But from what I gather, only the Coptic Orthodox, Greek Orthodox of Alexandria, the Coptic Catholic have Achillas in the diptychs, not Roman Catholic or Greek sister churches outside of Egypt.
The Greek Church in Egypt belongs to the Greek Church, so is the Catholic Church in Egypt follows the Latin rite. Do you actually believe that these Churches would canonized a saint who the mother Church would consider a heretic, if in fact they do?
The references I posted are not official. However, they are of Roman in nature and do point to the fact that the Roman Church regard Pope Archillaus to be of sound doctrine.
Here is a list of saints in the Roman Church and St Archilaus is among them
http://www.catholic.org/saints/stindex.php
But that still doesn't mean Achillas is or isn't a saint in the Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox Churches. There is no strong evidence that Achillas is officially canonized by the Roman Catholic Church. And again. This shouldn't matter. He is canonized in the Coptic Orthodox Church. So there's no benefit in discussing what other Apostolic churches do or don't do.