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Antiphonarium (Difnar) in English -- UPDATES?

andrew8345andrew8345
edited July 2011 in Hymns Discussion
Can anyone update me as to the progress of translating the Antiphonarium into English?

Every Saturday night the tasbeha is prayed at my church and the Antiphonarium is read in Arabic and we are all primarily English speakers and hardly understand what is being read.

I know there has been an effort by the Southern Diocese, but to my knowledge nothing has been published.

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • kyrollos faheemkyrollos faheem
    I know this is a silly question but can you enlighten as to what the antiphonarium is because my church does not read it. Or when it takes place? Thanks
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=kmeka001 link=topic=11823.msg141170#msg141170 date=1310335163]
    I know this is a silly question but can you enlighten as to what the antiphonarium is because my church does not read it. Or when it takes place? Thanks

    it is the difnar in arabic....it is basically senixar but is to be said in vespers and midnight praises. the text is more poetic than a story being read to ppl. it is said right before the theotokia conclusion (adam or watos).....it is also said after the tarh/commentary whenever there is one for a specific occasion and also when it is applicable for it to be said when a commentary is said.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    From  what I understand it is not intended to be merely read, but chanted.

    Can anyone from the Southern Diocese update us?
  • ophadeceophadece
    Spot on Unworthy1
    Oujai
  • imikhailimikhail
    No immediate plans in the Southern Diocese.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    After having a conversation with a friend, it seems impossible to translate without losing the poetic and musical value and any attempt to retain those two features would only lead to a translation distant from the original text.
  • imikhailimikhail
    The same is true with all the Coptic translations of the tasbeha
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I think the Antiphonarium needs to be translated into English (or whatever language is the vernacular for youth). Otherwise, within a few generations, it will be lost. Let's face it, in the west, Arabic is rapidly declining as a spoken (much less read) language among the youth. I think it is vital to translate the book (not literally, but such that the poetry as well as the gist of what is being said is maintained). In that way, a new generation of youth who take part in tasbeha can benefit.

    Translations are not the end of the world. If they were, then we should all just throw away our English, Arabic or [insert other language here] translations of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) since they are not in the original Koine Greek.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    It should be translated into English because it is better that it is prayed in a non-poetic but good translation to a simple tune than never prayed with understanding at all, or not even prayed at all.

    In God's time it is always possible for it to be set in a high quality poetic form and to appropriate chant.

    But it should not be allowed to fall into disuse just because the very best option is not immediately available. How am I, and my own community supposed to access these texts if they are not translated into English?
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    It's sung in coptic with its introduction (in total just a few lines), the rest is read as a normal reading in arabic. That's how it's done in my church at least...so if this is the correct way, then what's the problem in loosing some of the poetry when translating it into english or any other language?To be honest, I hardly notice any of the poetry when it's read in arabic. In the end i'd say that the content is most important, no?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=11823.msg141177#msg141177 date=1310349594]
    From  what I understand it is not intended to be merely read, but chanted.
    Can anyone from the Southern Diocese update us?

    yes......but most of the coptic was lost a long time ago.....(even thoo it might be back soon  ;)) but keeping the text is good enough for me.
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11823.msg141223#msg141223 date=1310389959]
    No immediate plans in the Southern Diocese.
    no plans YOU don't know about.....i got a confirmation of the completion of translation and now in the editing phase...... hopefully we get something this year--POSSIBLY with full coptic.

    [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=11823.msg141237#msg141237 date=1310411741]
    After having a conversation with a friend, it seems impossible to translate without losing the poetic and musical value and any attempt to retain those two features would only lead to a translation distant from the original text.
    the arabic is not really translated to rhyme. it's just translated keda with actually many issues that needs to be resolved--just really old words that are never used any more.

  • imikhailimikhail

    no plans YOU don't know about.....i got a confirmation of the completion of translation and now in the editing phase...... hopefully we get something this year--POSSIBLY with full coptic.

    Wow In 5 months, the editing, printing(done in Egypt), shipping, distribution all will be done.

    You have got to be very optimistic.



  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=imikhail link=topic=11823.msg141279#msg141279 date=1310436327]

    no plans YOU don't know about.....i got a confirmation of the completion of translation and now in the editing phase...... hopefully we get something this year--POSSIBLY with full coptic.

    Wow In 5 months, the editing, printing(done in Egypt), shipping, distribution all will be done.

    You have got to be very optimistic.

    oh.....i am not really.....i just hope and pray. i know it took them 10 yrs to make a khidmit shamas (that's with the text that they also used from tasbeha.org text library.......
    but atleast there is something.....you said there is nothing at all--i just confirmed that there is.
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