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Serving in the Altar
I'm looking for some resources that help teach how to serve in the altar. Anything from a good video of a liturgy to a book could help.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Comments
Here is the link:
http://www.archangelmichaelmedia.org/index.php/video-library/video/9
I have one link that in related to Serving in the Altar.
Here is the link:
http://www.archangelmichaelmedia.org/index.php/video-library/video/9
I don't know if just watching any church's live service is the best way to learn. You might pick up a few incorrect practices that way.
[quote author=St.George the prince of Martyrs link=topic=12010.msg142775#msg142775 date=1312828533]
I have one link that in related to Serving in the Altar.
Here is the link:
http://www.archangelmichaelmedia.org/index.php/video-library/video/9
I don't know if just watching any church's live service is the best way to learn. You might pick up a few incorrect practices that way.
You won't pick up any incorrect practices with my uncle and my cousin in the altar. My uncle is a priest and My cousin is a deacon.
Regardless, you can still pick up incorrect practices from "deacons" and priests.
Are they the priest and deacon in the video you supplied?
Regardless, you can still pick up incorrect practices from "deacons" and priests.
What do you mean exactly ?
[quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=12010.msg142781#msg142781 date=1312836333]
Are they the priest and deacon in the video you supplied?
Regardless, you can still pick up incorrect practices from "deacons" and priests.
What do you mean exactly ?
1. Was your uncle the priest in the video you put a link for?
2. Was your cousin the "deacon" in the video you out a link for?
---It doesn't matter if you answer "yes" or "no," I still think that they might make mistakes. I would try to learn from instructional videos, primarily. And from others, secondarily.
is it heavenly? how different is it from just sitting in one of the pews? out-of-this world?
this is kinda off topic, but what's it like serving in the altar? (im a girl so ive never done it)
is it heavenly? how different is it from just sitting in one of the pews? out-of-this world?
It's not out of this world. You don't feel as if you are in heaven just because you are in the sanctuary. It's not like you step in and feel heavenly; step out and feel normal. The liturgy itself is out of this world and heavenly, no matter where you stand.
this is kinda off topic, but what's it like serving in the altar? (im a girl so ive never done it)
is it heavenly? how different is it from just sitting in one of the pews? out-of-this world?
Theres the added advantage of being busy "doing something" (ie. passing abouna the shoria, holding the candle, saying the response) so you truly feel activly engaged in the divine liturgy rather than "watching" the liturgy which is an incorrect practise that people end up doing. No matter if I'm wearing a tonia or not, I should be attentive and actively engaged in the liturgy by chanting along with the cantors- I mean "deacons" :) and lifting your heart up to God in prayer with what the priest is asking us to pray for.
If I'm ill or not well and I know for sure that this Sunday morning I won't be able to participate as a "deacon" should, I simply will not wear my tonia...a huge pet peeve of mine are the "deacons" who wear their tonia but are half asleep with their heads leaning against the iconostasis and who are not participating at all...its as if the tonia does all the work for them :)
this is kinda off topic, but what's it like serving in the altar? (im a girl so ive never done it)
is it heavenly? how different is it from just sitting in one of the pews? out-of-this world?
I have always wondered the same thing. I hope that one day before I die I am allowed to stand in the side altar (womens side)during the liturgy to pray there with no distractions.
[quote author=anba bola link=topic=12010.msg142766#msg142766 date=1312817299]
I'm looking for some resources that help teach how to serve in the altar. Anything from a good video of a liturgy to a book could help.
Thanks in advance.
http://www.orthodoxbookstore.org/servinginheaven-altartrainingdvd.aspx
I recommend this video. Abouna made this movie solely for instructional purposes. He goes step by step. He taught the deacons in the video along with many others at my church the service in the altar. I was fortunate enough to learn some of it as well while attending all the meetings with my brother. Its an older video, maybe sometime around 10 years now but that shouldn't matter the service in the altar hasnt changed for thousands of years so you should be good! lol Its definitely something looking at the people in it, all in college and graduate programs now.
Please keep me in your prayers
I have always wondered the same thing. I hope that one day before I die I am allowed to stand in the side altar (womens side)during the liturgy to pray there with no distractions.
Girls do that in my church all the time. . .
You don't learn how to serve in the altar by watching clips.
No offense, but in the three minutes I watched in the clips, I saw several mistakes. I think a lot of people think they know what they are doing, and the vast majority do not.
I'm not going to get into a fight, but these clips are not a guide.
Sorry, shoot me if you want.
No one wants to put in the work, effort, training, discipline, fortitude, and quiet for such an endeavor.
Everyone wants a magic clip or pill to fill the knowledge base. It does not work that way.
This is an example, yet again, why the pseudo-deacons, who are not even deacons, have failed their Church and themselves.
I thought of a new term: "tonia wearers". It identifies those who do not serve but like to put on a "show".
The end suffering is in the lack of advancement of the Church and Her Service.
I would use Bp. Mattheos book as a major guide.
Link? Which parts, specifically? How can one get their hands on a copy? To be honest, they are lacking (non-existent) at my church. Maybe you could provide us with some guidelines?
Girls do that in my church all the time. . .
That's not possible at my church unfortunately as it is a small altar and the side altar located on the womans side has the shoraya and candles and such in the room attached to the altar, so standing there would get in the way of the deacons. I have attended larger churches where girls are allowed to pray in the altar and there was almost more distraction there than outside-- people sleeping, kids playing, talking etc. I mean of course its solely my fault that I am distracted by these things, I am not trying to shift the blame but I am still very weak and an infant in my spiritual life and relationship with God to be able to shun such things out so I seek to some how avoid it entirely. I intend to go once during the week to those churches to enjoy this but it has not been made possible yet.
Ilovesaintmark, I am not sure if your comments were directed to my link. The video teaches how to serve in the altar, nothing on understanding the liturgy. I understood from the OP that is what he wanted to learn. However, you make good remarks about the diaconate that I have learned through your posts. If its possible, since many deacons come to this site you can give 'lessons' per Se and everybody can spread the word about them in their own perish. Your wealth of knowledge would be beneficial for many. Just a suggestion... :)
Minagir (aka minatasgeel) can probably give you links, if they are available on the internet. I believe the book of HG is in most Church bookstores. You can contact Fr. Athanasius Farag at St. Anthony & St. Mina in Rutherford, NJ.
As for the Liturgy Book, unfortunately, it is in Arabic. One would have to get a copy from Egypt. If I am guessing correctly, Ophadece would be a good source at helping to get a copy. I received my copy from my priest and when I went to Egypt I got three more copies from the bookstore in Shoubra (El-Mahaba).
Stav,
As for giving instruction via the internet. I am against it fully. The discipleship that is necessary requires one to go through a multitude of lessons and experience. There is no instruction manual. It requires the willingness to submit to the fatherhood of the priest. It requires many rudimentary tasks which I have outlined previously. I don't think I would be a good teacher because I have not been involved in a lot of things in a long time (of my own choice). I do not think I would relate well to the current state of affairs. I am at a time in my life when I need to confront the issues of my life and its responsibilities and not to have threatening or discourteous PM's and posts thrown in my inbox. I have had people try to coax me and I just don't feel the desire or the calling. It is for someone with better communication to take on the task.
The ultimate issue for a deacon is to seek the service of being a janitor for the altar and the church and assistant for the priest before seeking to do chants. I do know that YouTube videos and parodies with Church vestments are blasphemies and an abomination.
I recently spent two full days (separate) with Cantor Ibrahim Ayad in his visit to the United States. I did not ask him one thing about the chants or the rites. During this trip he was inundated with questions. I did not want to annoy him. I did learn from him quite a bit. I watched his demeanor and conduct. I also set myself to understanding him and to even disspell representations and misrepresentations. I found him to be a wonderful man, not just a cantor. I was a bit hesitant to take his comment that he had never met anyone in all his years that took the diaconate so seriously. My response to him is that I do take it with the importance of 'life and death'.
That is my point to the would-be deacon and servant. The service of the Deacon hinges on life and death. It is explicative of the life of the church, the life of the diaconate, and the life of the laity. The failure in the diaconate leads to death for the parties involved.
Our example, St. Stephen the Archdeacon, was not a cantor and he was not documented for any liturgical involvement. He was known for his staunch faith and Its oration, and his service as a waiter, social worker, and a janitor assisting the Apostles. I do not think he ever pronounced: Epiprosevkistathite or epiprosevshistathite. He was martyred as he finished pronouncing his faith so eloquently. I believe his valor as a deacon was a partial inspiration even to one of the future episcopal rank, in the form of the Great St. Paul. St. Paul laments in his epistles the impact of the courage and purity of St. Stephen. Yes, even a deacon can influence the episcopal ranks. I dare say even a Pope. Shall we look at the example of the Great St. Athanasius, who was granted the title 'Apostolic'. He, as a deacon, influenced his pope and influenced the entire Council of Nicea in his diaconate and not in his tenure as pope. If it were not for him we would all be Arians, and getting the Watchtower periodical from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
The diaconate is not a joke. It is the base on which the hierarchical pyramid is built. If the foundation is unstable, the entire edifice will crumble. Our Lord gave a parable about foundations as it relates to being in sand and in the contrast on firm rock.
I am a deacon and I thank God for having granted me this Grace. It is more than anything than I have attained in my life. It is because of the discipline in the diaconate that has been a source for my success in my life profession. Just think, Our Church, has given four ranks to the diaconate. There is a reason for that staging. It is to discipline, train, teach, and bring along slowly the given person so that they may learn the spiritual life and be a source of blessing for the Church. Having received these characteristics it becomes easy for one to be fostered to the priestly ranks and even to the episcopate.
Just my thoughts. Sorry for the excessive ramble.
I understand where you are coming from on many points that you have made and I agree with much of what you have spoken. However, like unworthy1 said those deacons don't exist. There is no example to follow or known beginner steps to gradually fulfill the high criteria that the diaconate requires that you have mentioned, and previously listed. In defense of deacons, maybe that is all they know the diaconate to be about the hymns. I am not a deacon, never will be either but I have only learned of the janitorial role of deacons from your posts. I have never heard a priest or any other individual ever speak or teach of them. I guess my point is maybe its not so much of laziness but rather lack of knowledge of what is right? How will they learn other than what they can get their hands on from such instructional videos, recordings etc?
Ilovesaintmark, you speak much about the diaconate and you are well educated in its duties. I am sure you are just as eloquent and learned about service and serving sunday school. Would you (and any others!) kindly outline the servants roles and duties. Do's and Donts? It would be nice to do it right from the start. (Please let me know if its preferred to ask this question on a new thread, I didn't mean to hijack this one!) Thanks in advance
Please pray for me.
Stav,
The issues that fostered my existence were the piety of parents, the diligence of a priest, the Grace of God, and the willingness to submit to the preceding three points. I did not have any major diaconal mentoring. I look at the obvious. Actually, that is what I get paid to do in my lay vocation.
Servants, very simple:
1. The Bible
2. Respect for the Seven Sacraments (Mysteries)
3. Love of God
4. Love of Family
5. Ethics in one's profession
6. Example
7. Patience
The answsers are quite simple and obvious. The diligence to carry out the simple and obvious is so much more difficult.