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Jesus Pray

Kimo 214Kimo 214
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Lord Jesus Christ Son of God Have mercy on my , A sinner.

I want this translated to coptic please...

Comments

  • TimothymTimothym
    O Epchois, Iisous, PiChristos, Epshiri emefNouti nai nan...'the sinner' anyone? I know that sin is "novi" but I forgot what the word "sinner" is in Coptic.
  • epchois_nai_nanepchois_nai_nan
    refernobi is sinner. (ref = one who does a certain action - like 'er' in English: runner, fighter sinner etc. + ernobi = the verb 'to sin').

    I'd make a couple of adjustments to the above:
    W pa[oic Iycouc p,c `psyri `m`vnou] nai nyi ourefernobi

  • Kimo 214Kimo 214
    [quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=12243.msg144006#msg144006 date=1314867289]
    refernobi is sinner. (ref = one who does a certain action - like 'er' in English: runner, fighter sinner etc. + ernobi = the verb 'to sin').

    I'd make a couple of adjustments to the above:
    W pa[oic Iycouc p,c `psyri `m`vnou] nai nyi ourefernobi




    hi , thanks , but can i have it in Coptic-english? as in coptic language represented in english letter. thanks both of you :)
  • Kimo 214Kimo 214
    [quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=12243.msg144006#msg144006 date=1314867289]
    refernobi is sinner. (ref = one who does a certain action - like 'er' in English: runner, fighter sinner etc. + ernobi = the verb 'to sin').

    I'd make a couple of adjustments to the above:
    W pa[oic Iycouc p,c `psyri `m`vnou] nai nyi ourefernobi



    THANKS ! can i have it in english letters?
  • epchois_nai_nanepchois_nai_nan
    Sure:

    O Pa-Chois Eesos Pi-Khristos, ep-Sheeri emefnouti, nai nee, ourefernovi

    (Or more authentically :): O Ba-Shois Yasous Bi-Khrisdos, eb-shari em-eb-noudi, nai ney, ourefernowi)

    God bless
  • Aegyptian
    [quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=12243.msg144006#msg144006 date=1314867289]
    refernobi is sinner. (ref = one who does a certain action - like 'er' in English: runner, fighter sinner etc. + ernobi = the verb 'to sin').

    I'd make a couple of adjustments to the above:
    W pa[oic Iycouc p,c `psyri `m`vnou] nai nyi ourefernobi




    Could you please explain me how to correctly use the particle after nai

    Have mercy on us = nai nan
    But how does it work for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, singular, plural, etc. It's different than Sahidic so I don't know how to use it.

    Thanks in advance.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Bohairic Coptic conjugation for the dative preposition ne
    1st sg: nyi to me
    2nd sg masc: nak to you
    2nd sg fem: ne to you
    3rd sg masc: naf to him
    3rd sg fem: nac to her
    1st pl: nan to us
    2nd pl: nwten to you
    3rd pl: nwou to them

    Sahidic Coptic conjugation for the dative preposition \n
    1st sg: nai to me
    2nd sg masc: nak to you
    2nd sg fem: na to you (not sure about this)
    3rd sg masc: naf to him
    3rd sg fem: nac to her
    1st pl: nan to us
    2nd pl: nteten to you
    3rd pl: nou to them

    I hope that helped.
  • Aegyptian
    Thanks, that helped me very much. :-)

    About the 2nd single female in Sahidic: I think it's "ne" or "nak", havent seen "na" before. I'll look it up!
  • Aegyptian
    There's a different list in my Sahidic text book actually Remnkemi. It says(in the same order you stated):

    Nai
    Nak
    Ne
    Naf
    Nac
    Nan
    Nhtn
    Nay

    Are you sure about your list?
  • Kimo 214Kimo 214
    Hi guys , I want to know my coptic name please.
    I want Karim in coptic  letters
    Then i want the true word that defines  karim , which is kindness , in coptic...it's said in the liturgy " and your Kind Blood"!
    thanks!
    i knwo you may be saying this...but im very passionate to learn the language of my fathers...starting off with my name...i feel so sad that you guys fight over hwo this and that is pronouned...why so Pharisee :P?...the most important is to say words that unites your tongue and heart in your prayer !
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Karim in Coptic is taiyout (taiyout) which means "honored" (qualitative form of the verb taio which means "to honor")

    Karim doesn't necessarily mean kindness or precious. Karim as kindness is an Arabic idoim, meaning it is an unusual usage of the word. The primary meaning is "honored". So "your kind blood" does not mean the same thing as "your precious blood" or "your honored blood". But in Arabic the only word used is karim.

    {Moderated}
  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear KIMO MAXIMUS,
    As Remenkimi explained, the word in Arabic means different things to English. He pointed out one translation with explanation. However, I don't know why I got the impression you were looking for your name's meaning as in "generous". You wouldn't of course say taiyout or ettaiyout, but the word you are looking for is ouref] - you can make it piref] using a definitive article, as you are a guy, but for the name Karima (feminine) it would be ]ref].
    Oujai qen `P[C
  • ophadeceophadece
    [quote author=Aegyptian link=topic=12243.msg144062#msg144062 date=1314914585]
    There's a different list in my Sahidic text book actually Remnkemi. It says(in the same order you stated):

    Nai
    Nak
    Ne
    Naf
    Nac
    Nan
    Nhtn
    Nay

    Are you sure about your list?


    You are right Aegyptian... however the last two spellings need revamping to nyt=n and nau
    Oujai qen `P[C
  • msaadmsaad
    This topic has been moderated for UN-Christian behavior.  Stick to the topic without arguing, name calling, insults and silly pictures, etc.. or you will be banned.

  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    [quote author=ophadece link=topic=12243.msg144236#msg144236 date=1315250325]
    Dear KIMO MAXIMUS,
    As Remenkimi explained, the word in Arabic means different things to English. He pointed out one translation with explanation. However, I don't know why I got the impression you were looking for your name's meaning as in "generous". You wouldn't of course say taiyout or ettaiyout, but the word you are looking for is ouref] - you can make it piref] using a definitive article, as you are a guy, but for the name Karima (feminine) it would be ]ref].
    Oujai qen `P[C

    Ophadece, I agree. ouref] or piref] or `vref] would be a more appropriate word for "giver". 

    But the second part of your comment raises a question. I think Coptic and Greek deal with definite articles differently than Arabic. A masculine word in Coptic, like piref], can't be converted to a feminine word because the subject is a female. I don't think ]ref] is accurate. I'm not 100% sure because neither Mouwad's dictionary or Edmund Abdalmalak's additions to Claudius Labib's dictionary state if ref] is masculine or feminine. We can deduce ref] is a masculine noun since we have texts that use the form `vref].

    I can compare it to other masculine nouns. Take for example pimarturoc. A female martyr is not ]marturoc in Coptic. To support this theory, none of the female martyrs are called ]marturoc in their doxologies, but rather ]selet `nte Pi`,rictoc "the bride of Christ" which is a euphemism for female martyr. The same is true for female apostles. There is no ]apoctoloc. Rather `tcwni `n]metrefsemsi "the sister in the service".

    It is Arabic that has a different word for male martyr and female martyr and it is not just changing the definite article. One has to change the ending of the word too.

    What do you think?
  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear Remenkimi,
    Good point in terms of observation alone, but not language usage. ref] is a "root" of a noun so to speak, and it can get either pi or ] attached to it, exactly as the other examples you gave. We have ]marturoc in the doxology of St. Demiana. We have ]par;enoc and pipar;enoc. We have piouro and ]ouro.
    I guess using ]selet `nte pi,C is a piece of figurative speech that was replicated all through with any female martyr and saint alike. I am not aware of any female apostle, hence the argument the lack of usage of the word ]apoctoloc. I hope this is clear...
    Oujai qen `P[C
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    There are some differences,

    piouro is different than [ourw. It's not just the definite article. They are 2 different nouns. I have seen both pipar;enoc and ]par;enoc but this seems to be a deviation from standard Bohairic grammar. In all other nouns, a different noun is used or the noun is modified by adjectives. For example, St Demian's Batos doxology doesn't say ]marturoc, it says ]alou `mmarturoc. In this case the masculine noun is used as an adjective because there is no feminine word for marturoc . I did find the St Demiana's Adam doxolgy uses ]marturoc as you mentioned. Thanks for pointing that out. But I have seen too many Adam doxologies with non-standard Coptic grammar. I think this is another example of non-standard grammar. The standard Bohairic grammar does not allow for feminizing a masculine noun with the simple addition of the feminine definite article. I'll try to find more examples later.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Remenkimi,
    Why do you complicate things? I disagree with a passion. It is not NON-STANDARD grammar as you claim. It is just "out of" common usage, but they are proper Coptic words. What is the difference between piouro and ]ouro? As you mentioned there is also pialou and ]alou. There is also piaaf and ]aaf (= a fly [according to Muawad Dawood). There is also pijinaiai and ]jinaiai also in Muawad Dawood (seemingly a characteristic of the prefix jin). There is also bai (p - t). That is as far as I went through the letter a and started the letter b in Muawad Dawood's dictionary, but I can find more some other time.
    I guess your confusion comes from the fact that the basic principle taught is that Coptic nouns are different to Arabic. Some can be feminine in one, and masculine in the other. Some as I pointed out can work as both.
    Oujai qen `P[C
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