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Breaking your fast as a guest

copticuser20copticuser20
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Does 1 Corinthians 10:23-31 make it ok to break your fast when you are at an event or a guest at someone's house when there is nothing else to eat?

Comments

  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    From the Desert Fathers:

    Cassian said, "We came from Palestine to Egypt, and visted one of the hermits. After he had welcomed us, we asked him, "when you received guests, why don't you fast? In palestine they do." He answered, "Fasting is always possible but I cannot keep you here for ever. Fasting is useful and necessary, but we can choose to fast or not fast. God's law demands from us perfect love. I receive Christ when I receive you, so I must do all I can to show you love. When I have said goodbye to you, I can take up my rule of fasting again. 'The sons of the bridegroom cannot fast while the bridegroom is with them; when he is taken from them, then they can fast' (Matt. 9:15).""

  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12261.msg144082#msg144082 date=1314929440]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    From the Desert Fathers:

    Cassian said, "We came from Palestine to Egypt, and visted one of the hermits. After he had welcomed us, we asked him, "when you received guests, why don't you fast? In palestine they do." He answered, "Fasting is always possible but I cannot keep you here for ever. Fasting is useful and necessary, but we can choose to fast or not fast. God's law demands from us perfect love. I receive Christ when I receive you, so I must do all I can to show you love. When I have said goodbye to you, I can take up my rule of fasting again. 'The sons of the bridegroom cannot fast while the bridegroom is with them; when he is taken from them, then they can fast' (Matt. 9:15).""


    Cephas,

    Were his guests other monks?

    Copticuser20,

    Also, keep in mind that these sayings were not always meant as instruction for the laymen. We do not fast always and we do not (generally) feel that we lose grace when we break our fast as the monks do.

    We should just take the general spirit out of what the fathers say. In this case, that love is the most important thing. We cannot break our fast every time we have a guest because we treat everyone as if he or she is Christ Himself and that would result in never fasting. . .which might oddly explain why the monks were so hesitant to accept guests (joking).

  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I'm not sure why it is relevant if the other guests were monks or not. I present the story as showing that love is more important than fasting. Everything we do must be done with love (including fasting). Of course this does not mean that we can find any excuse not to fast because we have guests, or we are guests. It's about the spirit, not the letter. If you are in a situation where you are unable to fast, it is not the end of the world. Break the fast then (because let's face it, true fasting is done such that no one knows we are fasting (cf. Matt. 6:16), not like hypocrites who advertise it) and take up your rule of fast once you leave.
  • copticuser20copticuser20
    I didn't mean if we have guests. I mean if we are the guests.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12261.msg144129#msg144129 date=1314975873]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I'm not sure why it is relevant if the other guests were monks or not. I present the story as showing that love is more important than fasting. Everything we do must be done with love (including fasting). Of course this does not mean that we can find any excuse not to fast because we have guests, or we are guests. It's about the spirit, not the letter. If you are in a situation where you are unable to fast, it is not the end of the world. Break the fast then (because let's face it, true fasting is done such that no one knows we are fasting (cf. Matt. 6:16), not like hypocrites who advertise it) and take up your rule of fast once you leave.


    I just think the story might have turned out differently, if they were monks.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=12261.msg144132#msg144132 date=1314979673]
    I didn't mean if we have guests. I mean if we are the guests.


    That doesn't change much. It is a judgment call based on each situation and we can't make it for you. But be sure that you never break your fast because of some desire to do so that you mask as loving someone else or not wanting to offend another.
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=12261.msg144140#msg144140 date=1314986238]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12261.msg144129#msg144129 date=1314975873]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I'm not sure why it is relevant if the other guests were monks or not. I present the story as showing that love is more important than fasting. Everything we do must be done with love (including fasting). Of course this does not mean that we can find any excuse not to fast because we have guests, or we are guests. It's about the spirit, not the letter. If you are in a situation where you are unable to fast, it is not the end of the world. Break the fast then (because let's face it, true fasting is done such that no one knows we are fasting (cf. Matt. 6:16), not like hypocrites who advertise it) and take up your rule of fast once you leave.


    I just think the story might have turned out differently, if they were monks.


    I'm not so sure why it would. Here's another similar story involving monks:

    In Scetis there once went out an order that they should fast for a week, and then celebrate Easter. During the week some brothers happened to come into Egypt to visit Moses, and he cooked a a little vegetable stew for them. The nearby hermits saw the smoke, and said to the clergy of the church, 'What is that smoke? Moses must be be disobeying the order, and cooking in his cell.' The clergy said, 'We will talk to him when he comes.' On Saturday the clergy, who knew the greatnes of his way of life, said to Moses in front of the whole congregation, 'Moses, you have broken a commandment of men: but you have kept the commandments of God valiantly.'

    Again, the idea behind the story is not what literally happened (because we all know that monks lead a stricter life of asceticism then we ever could) but the message. For the sake of love for the brothers (monks), Moses broke his fast to be hospitable. This applies to whether we entertain guests or we ourselves are guests. Granted, we have more control when we are the invited guests because if we can opt out of going, then we may. However, if we can't, and the only food that is offered is non-fasting, then eat what is set before you (for the labourer is worthy of his wage (cf. Luke 10:7)) and keep your rule of fast when you are alone.
  • Qidus_MichaelQidus_Michael
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12261.msg144180#msg144180 date=1315065502]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=12261.msg144140#msg144140 date=1314986238]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12261.msg144129#msg144129 date=1314975873]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I'm not sure why it is relevant if the other guests were monks or not. I present the story as showing that love is more important than fasting. Everything we do must be done with love (including fasting). Of course this does not mean that we can find any excuse not to fast because we have guests, or we are guests. It's about the spirit, not the letter. If you are in a situation where you are unable to fast, it is not the end of the world. Break the fast then (because let's face it, true fasting is done such that no one knows we are fasting (cf. Matt. 6:16), not like hypocrites who advertise it) and take up your rule of fast once you leave.


    I just think the story might have turned out differently, if they were monks.


    I'm not so sure why it would. Here's another similar story involving monks:

    In Scetis there once went out an order that they should fast for a week, and then celebrate Easter. During the week some brothers happened to come into Egypt to visit Moses, and he cooked a a little vegetable stew for them. The nearby hermits saw the smoke, and said to the clergy of the church, 'What is that smoke? Moses must be be disobeying the order, and cooking in his cell.' The clergy said, 'We will talk to him when he comes.' On Saturday the clergy, who knew the greatnes of his way of life, said to Moses in front of the whole congregation, 'Moses, you have broken a commandment of men: but you have kept the commandments of God valiantly.'

    Again, the idea behind the story is not what literally happened (because we all know that monks lead a stricter life of asceticism then we ever could) but the message. For the sake of love for the brothers (monks), Moses broke his fast to be hospitable. This applies to whether we entertain guests or we ourselves are guests. Granted, we have more control when we are the invited guests because if we can opt out of going, then we may. However, if we can't, and the only food that is offered is non-fasting, then eat what is set before you (for the labourer is worthy of his wage (cf. Luke 10:7)) and keep your rule of fast when you are alone.


    I don't think this is true, I went abroad when it was the fast of the apostles and my siblings and I didn't break the fast when we were served Chicken when we were  guests at someone's house. We simply kept our fast and didn't eat at that time.
    I feel that the monks are a different story as they are more disciplined and do not care for the world, whether they eat the chicken or not is not a big deal to them.
    Where we on the other hand would have devoured that chicken happily if it wasn't a fasting season because we have a love for the world that we are in the process of trying to make obedient -which is done by abstaining and discipline our body and keeping it under submission. If we eat the chicken we are subconsciously giving into the thing that wants to eat the meat, while the monks don't care about the meat much so for them to eat it is not a big loss of grace as much as it is for us.
    This is my opinion, but we should talk to our spiritual father to know for sure.
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