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The sign of the cross

Kimo 214Kimo 214
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Why Do Greek , Eastern Orthodox church (yershemo) assign the cross up , down , RIGHT LEFT...and us ortiental orthodoxy  Up ,down , LEFT RIGHT...anyidea?

Comments

  • mabsootamabsoota
    i have asked lots of people this question but i don't think we really know. both ways are fine.
    the early Christians used to do the sign on their foreheads with their thumb, then it changed over the years to become a sign we make over more of the body.
  • d.rollinsd.rollins
    i belong to the serbian orthodox church and those "right left" isn't the only differences. we also "crossed" (ie. not shure how to translate- do the sign, maybe) with three fingers, not with 5 , the whole hand, like many Christians do..
  • imikhailimikhail
    Traditionally, the Copts and the Syrians do the sign of the cross with their thumb.
  • TimothymTimothym
    I was at a counsellor at an Eastern Orthodox (Antiochian) camp this past summer and this was a topic/question that came up during one of the popular "Ask Abouna" sessions that the youth had there. Abouna's answer as well as another abouna's khouriya (which is their word for 'tasoni') gave the same answer which is when they do the sign of the cross, they say in the name of the Father (from forehead to stomach), the Son (from right shoulder) and the Holy Spirit (to the left shoulder) because the Son is seated at the right hand of God the Father...this was the Antiochian answer. The Greek answer I've most commonly heard from clergy is that it expresses the desire of having God enter our hearts which are more aligned to the left side of the human body.

    As for which came first, I'm not sure we really know but as mabsoota said, the early christians used to do it solely on the forehead then it became a larger cross over the face and torso. I also believe that the right to left (along with its theological explanation) might have came after...although the Greeks claim that the reason that Christians in the West signed the cross from left to right is that when they saw the priest signing them from right to left they got confused and started immitating him...I'm not sure Western Christians are that stupid but hey who knows! I just don't think it was from right to left first because it seems unnatural for the hand to go to the right shoulder first (but thats just my idea).
  • dzheremi
    Timothy, the explanation you've been given about Western Christians is essentially correct. I first heard it myself in the video "Introduction to the Eastern Catholic Churches", produced in 1992 by the Byzantine Catholic Eparchy of Parma, hardly an anti-Western source (being in communion with the Latins and all). Granted the video doesn't use the word "stupidity", but that it was "incorrectly mirrored" or some such.

    The only explanation I've ever heard for the direction of the Oriental Orthodox crossing was something about how through the sacrifice of the cross we are brought from God's left side (with the unrighteous) to His right (with the righteous, and Christ of course). I honestly cannot remember where I heard that (this was years ago). I don't know. Does that sound plausible to people here?

  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I was taught the following:

    In the Name of the Father (touch the head)
    the Son (touch the stomach)
    the Holy (touch the left shoulder) Spirit (touch the right shoulder)
    One God. Amen.

    The meaning I have heard attributed to this is that Christ came from Heaven (the head) to Earth and became man (the stomach) and brought us out of darkness (left shoulder) to light (right shoulder).

    I've also been taught that one can make the sign of the cross with either the thumb, 3 fingers or the entire hand.

    With regards to going right to left or left to right, one explanation of the difference that I heard had to do with where the word 'Holy' appears (in Holy Spirit). In Coptic and Arabic, the word Holy appears after the word Spirit. Since, in the final judgment, the holy and righteous will stand at the right of Christ, it stands to reason that, when doing the sign of the cross, we should land on the right shoulder when we say the word 'Holy'. In contrast, in Greek, the word Holy comes before the word Spirit (as it does in English), and so that is why the Greeks start on the right side instead of the left. Thus, for the Greeks the meaning is as follows:

    In the Name of the Father (touch the head)
    the Son (touch the stomach)
    the Holy (touch the right shoulder) Spirit (touch the left shoulder)
    One God. Amen.

    The meaning I have heard attributed to this is that Christ came from Heaven (the head) to Earth and became man (the stomach) and brought us into the light (right shoulder) out of darkness (left shoulder).
  • MozesMozes
    I have asked this same question in the past-- some answers:

    http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,8073.msg103741/topicseen.html#msg103741

    http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,8562.msg109563.html#msg109563
  • TimothymTimothym
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12358.msg144736#msg144736 date=1316047254]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I was taught the following:

    In the Name of the Father (touch the head)
    the Son (touch the stomach)
    the Holy (touch the left shoulder) Spirit (touch the right shoulder)
    One God. Amen.

    The meaning I have heard attributed to this is that Christ came from Heaven (the head) to Earth and became man (the stomach) and brought us out of darkness (left shoulder) to light (right shoulder).

    I've also been taught that one can make the sign of the cross with either the thumb, 3 fingers or the entire hand.

    With regards to going right to left or left to right, one explanation of the difference that I heard had to do with where the word 'Holy' appears (in Holy Spirit). In Coptic and Arabic, the word Holy appears after the word Spirit. Since, in the final judgment, the holy and righteous will stand at the right of Christ, it stands to reason that, when doing the sign of the cross, we should land on the right shoulder when we say the word 'Holy'. In contrast, in Greek, the word Holy comes before the word Spirit (as it does in English), and so that is why the Greeks start on the right side instead of the left. Thus, for the Greeks the meaning is as follows:

    In the Name of the Father (touch the head)
    the Son (touch the stomach)
    the Holy (touch the right shoulder) Spirit (touch the left shoulder)
    One God. Amen.

    The meaning I have heard attributed to this is that Christ came from Heaven (the head) to Earth and became man (the stomach) and brought us into the light (right shoulder) out of darkness (left shoulder).


    I was taught the same explanation as a kid in sunday school...heaven to earth, darkness to light...as for the explanation of 'Holy' that would then make sense for both traditions evolving out of the same understanding of the words usage.
  • marmar357marmar357
    [quote author=d.rollins link=topic=12358.msg144731#msg144731 date=1316041580]
    i belong to the serbian orthodox church and those "right left" isn't the only differences. we also "crossed" (ie. not shure how to translate- do the sign, maybe) with three fingers, not with 5 , the whole hand, like many Christians do..


    Hey, sorry i didnt read everything. But it is wrong for us to make a cross from right to left, because it has a meaning. I don't remember the exact meaning, but hasn't it to do that God descended from hell to heavenn (from left to right) or something else??

    Please, anyone who knows an answer on this...

    EDIT: Oh sorry, I didn't read it all, that;s why I asked this question, but it seems that Κηφᾶς already answered this question:


    [b]The meaning I have heard attributed to this is that Christ came from Heaven (the head) to Earth and became man (the stomach) and brought us into the light (right shoulder) out of darkness (left shoulder).[/b

  • d.rollinsd.rollins
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12358.msg144736#msg144736 date=1316047254]

    In the Name of the Father (touch the head)
    the Son (touch the stomach)
    the Holy (touch the right shoulder) Spirit (touch the left shoulder)
    One God. Amen.

    The meaning I have heard attributed to this is that Christ came from Heaven (the head) to Earth and became man (the stomach) and brought us into the light (right shoulder) out of darkness (left shoulder).


    interesting explanation. never heard of that. i must ask pope from my church where i am going.
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