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Virginity and Marriage

deacon87
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
If a man chooses to marry a girl who is not a virgin and his father of confession as well as his parents find out. Is there a part in the sacrament that gets changed or reworded due to one of the two parties not being a virgin? The phrase in Arabic i'm referring to is, "ebnel el bekr" If so doesn't this void the seal of confession because now the entire congregation will know one of the two is not a virgin?

Thank you for your input.

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=deacon87 link=topic=12486.msg146348#msg146348 date=1319228587]
    If a man chooses to marry a girl who is not a virgin and his father of confession as well as his parents find out. Is there a part in the sacrament that gets changed or reworded due to one of the two parties not being a virgin? The phrase in Arabic i'm referring to is, "ebnel el bekr" If so doesn't this void the seal of confession because now the entire congregation will know one of the two is not a virgin?

    Thank you for your input.

    actually, it doesn't work that way. Virginity can be broken by a sin and by marriage. in the case of it being a sin, the mystery of confession and repentance annuls that sin, make it like it never happened. so the person is, again, a virgin. When virginity is broken by marriage (a previous one rather), it is not a problem because there are cases where we are allowed to marry again. In that case, the person is not "Bekr" since they have marriage before. there are special readings for that wedding ceremony when BOTH, the groom and bride, are not bekr but are lawfully allow to get married.
  • c_hope
    I thought 'bekr' meant firstborn...?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=c_hope link=topic=12486.msg146354#msg146354 date=1319241709]
    I thought 'bekr' meant firstborn...?

    it does.....but it also refers to a "virgin"
  • c_hope
    Oh ok - thank you for clarifying.
  • dzheremi
    Hey, native Arabic speakers, 3andy suw'al: Is there a difference between "bekr" and "batool"? I have heard both with reference to Mary in hymns, so I'm not sure. There's the famous one sung by Fairuz and others "Ya Mariam el-Bekr", and also Wadih el Safi sings one from the Syriac Maronite church called "Salatoki ma3na" where he addresses her by "Ya Batool". When would you use one instead of the other, or are they true synonyms?
  • c_hope
    I think I will humbly wait for the expert answers to that question, because the best I could do was to look it up online, and from Wikipedia (of all wonderfully reliable sources out there!) it says:
    تعرف البتول أو العذراء أو البكر في الأصل على أنها المرأة التي لم تقم بعلاقة جنسية سابقا
    which loosely translates to:
    The term 'al batool' or 'al 3azra2' or 'al bekr' is assigned to the one who has not previously engaged in sexual relations.

    ..which implies that there is not much difference or that they are interchangeable.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=dzheremi link=topic=12486.msg146357#msg146357 date=1319244361]
    Hey, native Arabic speakers, 3andy suw'al: Is there a difference between "bekr" and "batool"? I have heard both with reference to Mary in hymns, so I'm not sure. There's the famous one sung by Fairuz and others "Ya Mariam el-Bekr", and also Wadih el Safi sings one from the Syriac Maronite church called "Salatoki ma3na" where he addresses her by "Ya Batool". When would you use one instead of the other, or are they true synonyms?

    both are used interchangeably. Batool is specifically for saying "virgin" but in a better way. it's like saying celibate and not virgin. 
  • ophadeceophadece
    Yes Mina hit the nail on the head... c_hope is right but the connotations of each word is subtly different.. el 3azra2 gives a sense of someone who lives all her life without marriage. Batool gives the sense of a one who made a vow to remain a virgin all her life.. a deeper meaning than the former.. bekr is describing the woman in that state, so it's the more superficial of the three
    Oujai
  • dzheremi
    Thanks everybody.  :)
  • deacon87
    So Mina, even though one of the parties is not a virgin as long as it is confessed than he/she is referred to as "el bekr"? What about in English translation of the ceremony, what does "el bekr" translate to? I read through it and only found references to the orthodox son...
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    What I am saying is that when they are publicly virgins-- in the case of a second marriage, they are not called virgins. Otherwise, they are despite their sins whatever they are, we don't know them.

    In the english text, I don't think we have the translation of the word there. I think priest omit it as a whole in either cases.
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